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*Allen Jessup
Message 11 of 54 (255 Views)

Re: Track ball vs. Mouse

01-03-2007 11:31 AM in reply to: *Howard K
I hope you would accept that I might be one of the 1 in 5.

You went back to a wired mouse because it was heavy and dragged. I feel that
way about any mouse. I mostly only have to move the ball with my index and
middle fingers while using my thumb and ring finger for buttons. The thumb
also works the scroll wheel.

I do agree with you about typing. But that may be because of being at this
for 20 years. I have gotten somewhat fond to tool pallets in the past year.
There aren't enough keys to cover all the LDT command on top of the AutoCAD
ones without going to 3 & 4 letter combos. At that point I think you're past
the break even point. Especially trying to get new hires to memorize all the
aliases.

Allen

"James Maeding" wrote in message
news:5440157@discussion.autodesk.com...
I had a wireless mouse and did not like it as it was heavier than the wired
one, it dragged more on the mouse pad.
I love the no wire but went back.
Watch out on the ones who use trackballs, I have seen one in 5 people be
fast with them, and the slow ones NEVER speed
up because they are using the mouse (trackball) too much anyway.
Find that person that types most commands, and they are great with a
trackball :smileyhappy: Plus you can play centipede better if
you have MAME.

Howard K
|>Thanks to all for the Input.
|>So, there are people out there who use a trackball and are productive.
|>In the 13 yrs I have been drafting I have never seen a person draft with
|>one.
|>I think I saw a secretary use a trackball once. But, that is a whole
|>different thing.
|>
|>I myself use a wireless mouse and hate when I go to someone elses desk
|>and have that stupid wire attached to there mouse.
|>
|>
|>
|>Thanks again,
|>Howard
|>
|>"Timothy B. Storey" wrote in message
|>news:5440065@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>"Howard K" wrote in message
|>news:5439652@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>I'm just a little curious, how many of you use a track ball?. A new
drafter
|>just started here and brought in his own track ball.
|>Personally, I can't see how he is going to become productive using a track
|>ball. But then again I have never used one while drafting.
|>I've sat at his desk and it seems very awkward to draft with.
|>
|>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
|>
|>Thank You,
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
*James Maeding
Message 12 of 54 (255 Views)

Re: Track ball vs. Mouse

01-03-2007 01:33 PM in reply to: *Howard K
Allen, I'm sure you are since you know your stuff and could do it any way you wanted.
The problem ones are those that mess up their wrists from too much mousing, then switch to trackball and work even
slower because they pick the same stuff but with the trackball now (and never touch the settings...).
If people just learned to type l for line, and z for zoom, we could save so much mousing.
Then if people learned a few short lisps, they could automate a lot of clicks.
Some do this and fly, others don't have the interest. Its amazing how easy it is to rise above those that don't.
I still want a trackball for 3d viewing and centipede :smileyhappy:
I tried one of those logitech 3d mice at AU, it was very interesting. A mouse might not be the best input device yet...

Allen Jessup
|>I hope you would accept that I might be one of the 1 in 5.
|>
|>You went back to a wired mouse because it was heavy and dragged. I feel that
|>way about any mouse. I mostly only have to move the ball with my index and
|>middle fingers while using my thumb and ring finger for buttons. The thumb
|>also works the scroll wheel.
|>
|>I do agree with you about typing. But that may be because of being at this
|>for 20 years. I have gotten somewhat fond to tool pallets in the past year.
|>There aren't enough keys to cover all the LDT command on top of the AutoCAD
|>ones without going to 3 & 4 letter combos. At that point I think you're past
|>the break even point. Especially trying to get new hires to memorize all the
|>aliases.
|>
|>Allen
|>
|>"James Maeding" wrote in message
|>news:5440157@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>I had a wireless mouse and did not like it as it was heavier than the wired
|>one, it dragged more on the mouse pad.
|>I love the no wire but went back.
|>Watch out on the ones who use trackballs, I have seen one in 5 people be
|>fast with them, and the slow ones NEVER speed
|>up because they are using the mouse (trackball) too much anyway.
|>Find that person that types most commands, and they are great with a
|>trackball :smileyhappy: Plus you can play centipede better if
|>you have MAME.
|>
|>Howard K
|>|>Thanks to all for the Input.
|>|>So, there are people out there who use a trackball and are productive.
|>|>In the 13 yrs I have been drafting I have never seen a person draft with
|>|>one.
|>|>I think I saw a secretary use a trackball once. But, that is a whole
|>|>different thing.
|>|>
|>|>I myself use a wireless mouse and hate when I go to someone elses desk
|>|>and have that stupid wire attached to there mouse.
|>|>
|>|>
|>|>
|>|>Thanks again,
|>|>Howard
|>|>
|>|>"Timothy B. Storey" wrote in message
|>|>news:5440065@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>|>"Howard K" wrote in message
|>|>news:5439652@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>|>I'm just a little curious, how many of you use a track ball?. A new
|>drafter
|>|>just started here and brought in his own track ball.
|>|>Personally, I can't see how he is going to become productive using a track
|>|>ball. But then again I have never used one while drafting.
|>|>I've sat at his desk and it seems very awkward to draft with.
|>|>
|>|>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
|>|>
|>|>Thank You,
|>James Maeding
|>Civil Engineer and Programmer
|>jmaeding - athunsaker - com
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
Distinguished Contributor
JNieman
Posts: 1,744
Registered: ‎07-18-2006
Message 13 of 54 (255 Views)

Re: Track ball vs. Mouse

01-03-2007 01:43 PM in reply to: *Howard K
I wish a 3d puck such as those at 3dconexxion, etc were a viable solution for me.

two fistin' cad would be awesome, but I would need the keyboard too much. I do not like clicking icons at all... have very few displayed. I'm a keyboard-shortcut lover, as well as starting to get used to the world or programmable-button-mice. I guess I'm just a fingertip user regardless of the tool.

I don't see being able to ditch the keyboard though.
*James Maeding
Message 14 of 54 (255 Views)

Re: Track ball vs. Mouse

01-03-2007 01:54 PM in reply to: *Howard K
I am thinking voice control has to enter the equation some day.
As anyone I have met knows, I can talk all day and not get tired...seems like we could incorporate that into the
computer somehow.
I am aware of the current voice solutions but have not tried any, but I hear they don't work well.
Even if I could just have two items "osnap" and "pan" to pull up the osnap menu, or start the realtime pan command (exc
to finish), that would be worth lots of money to me.
Throw in some foot pedals for enter or escape, and I would be a dancing, singing fool on autocad!

Josh Nieman <>
|>I wish a 3d puck such as those at 3dconexxion, etc were a viable solution for me.
|>
|>two fistin' cad would be awesome, but I would need the keyboard too much. I do not like clicking icons at all... have very few displayed. I'm a keyboard-shortcut lover, as well as starting to get used to the world or programmable-button-mice. I guess I'm just a fingertip user regardless of the tool.
|>
|>I don't see being able to ditch the keyboard though.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
*Allen Jessup
Message 15 of 54 (255 Views)

Re: Track ball vs. Mouse

01-03-2007 01:54 PM in reply to: *Howard K
Yeah. We had one of those in another Dept. They were slow to begin with and
slower with the trackball. But of course they bought a Mickey mouse
trackball. There was just a roll-out of new computers and this is the first
time they bought optical mice with scroll wheels. Up till then it was always
manual 2 button mice. Then we had to spend out own money on better mice.

Anyone I teach learns to type in the short cuts. Because anytime they ask me
how to do something I make them do it that way. Most of the time I don't
know which menu it's on without looking because I don't use it.

I've found that I like to redefine the alias LA for -LA. This gives me the
command line layer command. I find that better for creating layers and you
can turn off or freeze layers by selecting objects without going to a menu.
So to freeze a layer I would type LA F [enter] [pick] and the layer if
frozen. I use LL to bring up the Layer Manager.

thanks,
Allen

"James Maeding" wrote in message
news:5440393@discussion.autodesk.com...
Allen, I'm sure you are since you know your stuff and could do it any way
you wanted.
The problem ones are those that mess up their wrists from too much mousing,
then switch to trackball and work even
slower because they pick the same stuff but with the trackball now (and
never touch the settings...).
If people just learned to type l for line, and z for zoom, we could save so
much mousing.
Then if people learned a few short lisps, they could automate a lot of
clicks.
Some do this and fly, others don't have the interest. Its amazing how easy
it is to rise above those that don't.
I still want a trackball for 3d viewing and centipede :smileyhappy:
I tried one of those logitech 3d mice at AU, it was very interesting. A
mouse might not be the best input device yet...

Allen Jessup
|>I hope you would accept that I might be one of the 1 in 5.
|>
|>You went back to a wired mouse because it was heavy and dragged. I feel
that
|>way about any mouse. I mostly only have to move the ball with my index and
|>middle fingers while using my thumb and ring finger for buttons. The thumb
|>also works the scroll wheel.
|>
|>I do agree with you about typing. But that may be because of being at this
|>for 20 years. I have gotten somewhat fond to tool pallets in the past
year.
|>There aren't enough keys to cover all the LDT command on top of the
AutoCAD
|>ones without going to 3 & 4 letter combos. At that point I think you're
past
|>the break even point. Especially trying to get new hires to memorize all
the
|>aliases.
|>
|>Allen
|>
|>"James Maeding" wrote in message
|>news:5440157@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>I had a wireless mouse and did not like it as it was heavier than the
wired
|>one, it dragged more on the mouse pad.
|>I love the no wire but went back.
|>Watch out on the ones who use trackballs, I have seen one in 5 people be
|>fast with them, and the slow ones NEVER speed
|>up because they are using the mouse (trackball) too much anyway.
|>Find that person that types most commands, and they are great with a
|>trackball :smileyhappy: Plus you can play centipede better if
|>you have MAME.
|>
|>Howard K
|>|>Thanks to all for the Input.
|>|>So, there are people out there who use a trackball and are productive.
|>|>In the 13 yrs I have been drafting I have never seen a person draft with
|>|>one.
|>|>I think I saw a secretary use a trackball once. But, that is a whole
|>|>different thing.
|>|>
|>|>I myself use a wireless mouse and hate when I go to someone elses desk
|>|>and have that stupid wire attached to there mouse.
|>|>
|>|>
|>|>
|>|>Thanks again,
|>|>Howard
|>|>
|>|>"Timothy B. Storey" wrote in message
|>|>news:5440065@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>|>"Howard K" wrote in message
|>|>news:5439652@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>|>I'm just a little curious, how many of you use a track ball?. A new
|>drafter
|>|>just started here and brought in his own track ball.
|>|>Personally, I can't see how he is going to become productive using a
track
|>|>ball. But then again I have never used one while drafting.
|>|>I've sat at his desk and it seems very awkward to draft with.
|>|>
|>|>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
|>|>
|>|>Thank You,
|>James Maeding
|>Civil Engineer and Programmer
|>jmaeding - athunsaker - com
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
*James Maeding
Message 16 of 54 (252 Views)

Re: Track ball vs. Mouse

01-03-2007 01:59 PM in reply to: *Howard K
ah, the -la trick, I do that too.
Now what I need to write is a clone of the command line layer tool that does not allow spaces in the layer name.
In R12, we got so fast at freezing and thawing layers with LA but the long symbol name ability has thrown a wrench in
that habit.
I want spaces allowed, but not in the -la command...I'll have to do that soon.

Allen Jessup
|>Yeah. We had one of those in another Dept. They were slow to begin with and
|>slower with the trackball. But of course they bought a Mickey mouse
|>trackball. There was just a roll-out of new computers and this is the first
|>time they bought optical mice with scroll wheels. Up till then it was always
|>manual 2 button mice. Then we had to spend out own money on better mice.
|>
|>Anyone I teach learns to type in the short cuts. Because anytime they ask me
|>how to do something I make them do it that way. Most of the time I don't
|>know which menu it's on without looking because I don't use it.
|>
|>I've found that I like to redefine the alias LA for -LA. This gives me the
|>command line layer command. I find that better for creating layers and you
|>can turn off or freeze layers by selecting objects without going to a menu.
|>So to freeze a layer I would type LA F [enter] [pick] and the layer if
|>frozen. I use LL to bring up the Layer Manager.
|>
|>thanks,
|>Allen
|>
|>"James Maeding" wrote in message
|>news:5440393@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>Allen, I'm sure you are since you know your stuff and could do it any way
|>you wanted.
|>The problem ones are those that mess up their wrists from too much mousing,
|>then switch to trackball and work even
|>slower because they pick the same stuff but with the trackball now (and
|>never touch the settings...).
|>If people just learned to type l for line, and z for zoom, we could save so
|>much mousing.
|>Then if people learned a few short lisps, they could automate a lot of
|>clicks.
|>Some do this and fly, others don't have the interest. Its amazing how easy
|>it is to rise above those that don't.
|>I still want a trackball for 3d viewing and centipede :smileyhappy:
|>I tried one of those logitech 3d mice at AU, it was very interesting. A
|>mouse might not be the best input device yet...
|>
|>Allen Jessup
|>|>I hope you would accept that I might be one of the 1 in 5.
|>|>
|>|>You went back to a wired mouse because it was heavy and dragged. I feel
|>that
|>|>way about any mouse. I mostly only have to move the ball with my index and
|>|>middle fingers while using my thumb and ring finger for buttons. The thumb
|>|>also works the scroll wheel.
|>|>
|>|>I do agree with you about typing. But that may be because of being at this
|>|>for 20 years. I have gotten somewhat fond to tool pallets in the past
|>year.
|>|>There aren't enough keys to cover all the LDT command on top of the
|>AutoCAD
|>|>ones without going to 3 & 4 letter combos. At that point I think you're
|>past
|>|>the break even point. Especially trying to get new hires to memorize all
|>the
|>|>aliases.
|>|>
|>|>Allen
|>|>
|>|>"James Maeding" wrote in message
|>|>news:5440157@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>|>I had a wireless mouse and did not like it as it was heavier than the
|>wired
|>|>one, it dragged more on the mouse pad.
|>|>I love the no wire but went back.
|>|>Watch out on the ones who use trackballs, I have seen one in 5 people be
|>|>fast with them, and the slow ones NEVER speed
|>|>up because they are using the mouse (trackball) too much anyway.
|>|>Find that person that types most commands, and they are great with a
|>|>trackball :smileyhappy: Plus you can play centipede better if
|>|>you have MAME.
|>|>
|>|>Howard K
|>|>|>Thanks to all for the Input.
|>|>|>So, there are people out there who use a trackball and are productive.
|>|>|>In the 13 yrs I have been drafting I have never seen a person draft with
|>|>|>one.
|>|>|>I think I saw a secretary use a trackball once. But, that is a whole
|>|>|>different thing.
|>|>|>
|>|>|>I myself use a wireless mouse and hate when I go to someone elses desk
|>|>|>and have that stupid wire attached to there mouse.
|>|>|>
|>|>|>
|>|>|>
|>|>|>Thanks again,
|>|>|>Howard
|>|>|>
|>|>|>"Timothy B. Storey" wrote in message
|>|>|>news:5440065@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>|>|>"Howard K" wrote in message
|>|>|>news:5439652@discussion.autodesk.com...
|>|>|>I'm just a little curious, how many of you use a track ball?. A new
|>|>drafter
|>|>|>just started here and brought in his own track ball.
|>|>|>Personally, I can't see how he is going to become productive using a
|>track
|>|>|>ball. But then again I have never used one while drafting.
|>|>|>I've sat at his desk and it seems very awkward to draft with.
|>|>|>
|>|>|>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
|>|>|>
|>|>|>Thank You,
|>|>James Maeding
|>|>Civil Engineer and Programmer
|>|>jmaeding - athunsaker - com
|>James Maeding
|>Civil Engineer and Programmer
|>jmaeding - athunsaker - com
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
*Dean Saadallah
Message 17 of 54 (252 Views)

Re: Track ball vs. Mouse

01-03-2007 02:36 PM in reply to: *Howard K
Been using a trackball since my first one back in 1992.
I've been dual-tasking with a Wacom Tablet and Pen for a few
years now, depending on application.

Only ever use a mouse when I'm on my laptop, and only then
because they are small, easy to pack, and come with short
cords: hate the laptop pad.

--
Dean Saadallah
Add-on products for LT
http://www.pendean.com/lt
--
*Jerry G
Message 18 of 54 (252 Views)

Re: Track ball vs. Mouse

01-04-2007 04:56 AM in reply to: *Howard K
You must be a woman in disguise if you can talk all day without getting
tired.

James Maeding wrote:
> I am thinking voice control has to enter the equation some day.
> As anyone I have met knows, I can talk all day and not get tired...seems like we could incorporate that into the
> computer somehow.
> I am aware of the current voice solutions but have not tried any, but I hear they don't work well.
> Even if I could just have two items "osnap" and "pan" to pull up the osnap menu, or start the realtime pan command (exc
> to finish), that would be worth lots of money to me.
> Throw in some foot pedals for enter or escape, and I would be a dancing, singing fool on autocad!
>
> Josh Nieman <>
> |>I wish a 3d puck such as those at 3dconexxion, etc were a viable solution for me.
> |>
> |>two fistin' cad would be awesome, but I would need the keyboard too much. I do not like clicking icons at all... have very few displayed. I'm a keyboard-shortcut lover, as well as starting to get used to the world or programmable-button-mice. I guess I'm just a fingertip user regardless of the tool.
> |>
> |>I don't see being able to ditch the keyboard though.
> James Maeding
> Civil Engineer and Programmer
> jmaeding - athunsaker - com
*Terry Scanlon
Message 19 of 54 (252 Views)

Re: Track ball vs. Mouse

01-04-2007 06:36 AM in reply to: *Howard K
I read a CAD article a very long time ago (so I don't recall a reference)
which cited a study by the Army to evaluate the most efficient graphic input
device. The conclusion was: that no device stood out as better than
another...once one was proficient with a specific device.

The article went on to state that it is common to be awkward for one to
switch from one device to another. It mentioned concern for repetitive
motion injuries from using one device for long periods of time. It
suggested that perhaps if one mastered multiple devices and switched
periodically, one could avoid some of the repetitive motion risk.

I got a trackball to try the last suggestion. I have never mastered it. I
get frustrated, need to "get r done" on a project and plug the mouse back
in.
Distinguished Contributor
troye
Posts: 1,077
Registered: ‎01-16-2006
Message 20 of 54 (252 Views)

Re: Track ball vs. Mouse

01-04-2007 07:23 AM in reply to: *Howard K
I don't think i would trust any study that was done by the Army that had to do with graphical input. the Army is not exactly up there with intense graphics.
not that i am not all for the Army, I am a former soldier. But I have never seen the Army with any high end graphics software.

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