To become an IT manager or not, that is the question

[Anonymous]

Here is the scenario:
30 person, high design (high maintainence 😉 architecture firm. 20 CAD
users.
You've been CAD Manager (20 hours / week) for a few years at this office,
and have that part down pretty good.
You have previously been defacto IT manager at another office, with 4 users
and a WindowsXP P2P network.
The current office runs Windows Server 2003 & Exchange Server 2003. There
are some problems (corrupt Exchange database on occation, conflicting Group
Policy, etc.
The part time IT Manager is leaving, and you think the combined CAD/IT role
at 40 hours could be good.
BUT, you have no training and very little experience with the arcana of
Windows Server and Exchange.

So...
do you demand some intensive training as a condition of taking the job?
do you take the job and learn by the seat of your pants?
do you run screaming?

My gut feeling is this is just too important to learn by putting out fires
that could have been avoided, but that is also the only way this office has
ever had anyone learn this stuff. There is a possibility they could see the
light and go for the training, but a bigger chance they would not.

And, if you say training, does that mean the 1 week, $2000 MCSA classroom
stuff, or the Microsoft online version for $200, or Junior College classes,
or something else?

Thanks,
Gordon

[peter.ashby]

Ask to sit in with the existing IT manager for a week before deciding, see what the job entails.

[Anonymous]

I've read enough of your stuff Gordon that you know what the answer is.
And it's not just a one week course.
Better hope the current manager has documented the be-Jesus out of everything.

John Postlewait
IS Department
George Butler Associates, Inc.

[Anonymous]

wrote in message news:4854715@discussion.autodesk.com...
Ask to sit in with the existing IT manager for a week before deciding, see
what the job entails.

That much of it I know, as I worked really close with the old IT manager.
However, there is some deeper stuff that neither of us knows (like issues of
conflicting Group Policys). The actual job I know I would like, the question
is, am I crazy to take it and do the training 'on the job' and mostly self
educated? My feeling is I should actually know the basics BEFORE I become
responsible for it, but again, the office has never seen IT training as
important.

best,
Gordon

[Anonymous]

wrote in message news:4854733@discussion.autodesk.com...
> I've read enough of your stuff Gordon that you know what the answer is.
> And it's not just a one week course.
> Better hope the current manager has documented the be-Jesus out of
> everything.

Not only not documented, but the nuance that really doesn't affect the
decision is this. The IT manager that I worked with for so long has already
moved on to graphics stuff (his real interest) and the new IT Manager is
leaving (for health reasons) after two weeks. I could get some hands on
training with the guy who is leaving (who also thinks hands and a good
newsgroup is all that is needed), but that still seems minimal to me. The
office likes the idea because the IT Manager was going to get trained to be
the CAD Manager, but that has as much to do with Architecture as CAD, so
going the other way now makes more sense.
So, I am getting the impression that getting the office to commit to the 1
week Windows Server class and the 1 week Exchange class is still a bad idea
in your opinion? What level of training is common for the IT side in smaller
Architecture firms? Especially when IT is only half the job, and a full
understanding of CAD Management and Architecture is required as well? My
hope is to be a complete manager, but that seems to be painfully rare, and
perhaps not due to lack of interest.

Thanks for the insight.

Best,
Gordon

[Anonymous]

Gordon - I'm in a CAD Manager/IT position, and here's a few things that
really helped me, though my IT skills were learned slowly over several
years..

First, get a couple good reference books on Windows Servers and Networking,
and also for the version of Exchange you're using. Then spend some time
going through them - it's amazing what you can pick up with just a little
reading!

Second - Microsoft sponsors a lot of half-day seminars - while not
comprehensive, they cover a lot of basic territory and are good for getting
questions answered at.

Third - log into the MS Discussion Groups - they're just like Autodesk's,
with an incredible amount of support and knowledge! They're at
msnews.microsoft.com .

Fourth - make use of the extensive knowledge base at MS, especially
www.technet.com - they really do cover most everything.

And last - get connected with a couple good local consultants for the things
that are just too much to cover yourself. I have a local Windows
Server/Networking type consultant, and another Exchange expert. I only call
these guys in for the tough nuts, like migrating Exchange 5.5 to Exchange
2003 - stuff like that. I average bringing them in about 2-4 hours total
each month, which is far more economical than what it would take to get me
to their levels. This amount of support is what I generally need for about
65 users between 3 offices.

Additional in-depth training would be great, but unless you're planning on
being a consultant for all kinds of different companies and setups, I think
MCSE and such is overkill for just working within your own company.

Good luck!

John

"Gordon Price" wrote in message
news:4854741@discussion.autodesk.com...
wrote in message news:4854733@discussion.autodesk.com...
> I've read enough of your stuff Gordon that you know what the answer is.
> And it's not just a one week course.
> Better hope the current manager has documented the be-Jesus out of
> everything.

Not only not documented, but the nuance that really doesn't affect the
decision is this. The IT manager that I worked with for so long has already
moved on to graphics stuff (his real interest) and the new IT Manager is
leaving (for health reasons) after two weeks. I could get some hands on
training with the guy who is leaving (who also thinks hands and a good
newsgroup is all that is needed), but that still seems minimal to me. The
office likes the idea because the IT Manager was going to get trained to be
the CAD Manager, but that has as much to do with Architecture as CAD, so
going the other way now makes more sense.
So, I am getting the impression that getting the office to commit to the 1
week Windows Server class and the 1 week Exchange class is still a bad idea
in your opinion? What level of training is common for the IT side in smaller
Architecture firms? Especially when IT is only half the job, and a full
understanding of CAD Management and Architecture is required as well? My
hope is to be a complete manager, but that seems to be painfully rare, and
perhaps not due to lack of interest.

Thanks for the insight.

Best,
Gordon

[Anonymous]

Were the "health reasons" existing prior to the promotion (hire), or did they
show up afterwards?

I'm not an IT person, but my suggestion would be to get the management to commit
to on-going training, perhaps a college course per semester. IT changes so
quick, it almost impossible to keep up.

Dave

Gordon Price wrote:

> The IT manager that I worked with for so long has already
> moved on to graphics stuff (his real interest) and the new IT Manager is
> leaving (for health reasons) after two weeks.

[Anonymous]

John has some really good suggestions.
The one week courses are probably your best bets combined with John's recommendations.
Looks like the Cad Manager is going on Auto-pilot for a bit.
But the more of your time spent upfront means the fewer times you get hit by the bus you didn't see coming.

Good Luck

John Postlewait
IS Department
George Butler Associates, Inc.

[Anonymous]

Definitely pre-existing. I don't think it is a cop out.
As for the training, keeping up is one thing, starting off too far behind the 8 ball is my worry. I know I can pick it up eventually, and I do know just enough to know I don't know enough. Could be an interesting week-end agonizing over the decision to even pursue the issue.

best,
Gordon

[Anonymous]

This is a different point of view but I think it depends on your long term career goals and interest.
I got bored with cad drafting and wanted to do IT. CAD management was my stepping stone to get into IT.
I was already good at IT, but needed documentable experience, in another words the job title. So I transitioned into a
cad manager and then into a cad manager / it manager. My interest is in IT because I got bored with cad. So for me I
dived in head first. I have no formal training. All I need is Internet access to do my job. I work for a 50 man
architectural company. My boss thought I'd be doing 40% IT, 40% CAD management & 20% CAD drafting. LOL. Its more like
70% IT & 30 CAD management & 0 drafting.

With the complexity of windows today I don't think you can just jump in and swim right away unless you are the type that
can read a book over a weekend and be an expert on Monday. Its taken years of messing with computers to get where I'm
at. I've seen people with MCSE's and I can run circles around them because I like IT and I'm good at it.

So what I'm saying is that it depends on your attitude and what you want to do. If you are enthuastic about IT then you
will probably be good at it.

Gordon Price
|>Here is the scenario:
|>30 person, high design (high maintainence 😉 architecture firm. 20 CAD
|>users.
|>You've been CAD Manager (20 hours / week) for a few years at this office,
|>and have that part down pretty good.
|>You have previously been defacto IT manager at another office, with 4 users
|>and a WindowsXP P2P network.
|>The current office runs Windows Server 2003 & Exchange Server 2003. There
|>are some problems (corrupt Exchange database on occation, conflicting Group
|>Policy, etc.
|>The part time IT Manager is leaving, and you think the combined CAD/IT role
|>at 40 hours could be good.
|>BUT, you have no training and very little experience with the arcana of
|>Windows Server and Exchange.
|>
|>So...
|>do you demand some intensive training as a condition of taking the job?
|>do you take the job and learn by the seat of your pants?
|>do you run screaming?
|>
|>My gut feeling is this is just too important to learn by putting out fires
|>that could have been avoided, but that is also the only way this office has
|>ever had anyone learn this stuff. There is a possibility they could see the
|>light and go for the training, but a bigger chance they would not.
|>
|>And, if you say training, does that mean the 1 week, $2000 MCSA classroom
|>stuff, or the Microsoft online version for $200, or Junior College classes,
|>or something else?
|>
|>Thanks,
|>Gordon

[Anonymous]

Talk to the boss about all your concerns. Ask if he is willing to pay for
you to go to school and is willing to let you be gone for extended time
during work hours (MCSA classes). Or are you willing to take evening classes
on your own time (Junior/Tech school)? My suggestion is MSCA because you
learn faster, and is typically not on your time. If you have the desire to
learn new responsibilities, then this can only enhance yourself. There are
many small companies that can't afford a CAD manager and a IT manager, so
someone with experience with both is definitely desirable.

"Gordon Price" wrote in message
news:4854595@discussion.autodesk.com...
Here is the scenario:
30 person, high design (high maintainence 😉 architecture firm. 20 CAD
users.
You've been CAD Manager (20 hours / week) for a few years at this office,
and have that part down pretty good.
You have previously been defacto IT manager at another office, with 4 users
and a WindowsXP P2P network.
The current office runs Windows Server 2003 & Exchange Server 2003. There
are some problems (corrupt Exchange database on occation, conflicting Group
Policy, etc.
The part time IT Manager is leaving, and you think the combined CAD/IT role
at 40 hours could be good.
BUT, you have no training and very little experience with the arcana of
Windows Server and Exchange.

So...
do you demand some intensive training as a condition of taking the job?
do you take the job and learn by the seat of your pants?
do you run screaming?

My gut feeling is this is just too important to learn by putting out fires
that could have been avoided, but that is also the only way this office has
ever had anyone learn this stuff. There is a possibility they could see the
light and go for the training, but a bigger chance they would not.

And, if you say training, does that mean the 1 week, $2000 MCSA classroom
stuff, or the Microsoft online version for $200, or Junior College classes,
or something else?

Thanks,
Go

[Anonymous]

Tossing in my 2 cents here also. I graduated with a BS in Computer
Information Systems, then went on to get my MBA. Oddly enough I have 37
years experience in the architectural field. I had my own drafting business
for 21 years, got burned out, and decided I wanted to let the headaches to
others and just get a regular paycheck on time. I taught architectural
drafting and math for one year at a technical school, then an opening came
at this office. I have known 3 of the owners of this firm for about 30
years so I knew what kind of people I would be working with.
The position I took was Cad Manager/IT Manager/Designer.
Well, as others said, technology changes...fast!
When I started here I had no problem with the IT stuff. We had NT4 on the
server and Win98 on the cad machines. Now we have a mix of 98, ME, and XP
Pro, with the server being upgraded to Server 2002. I was not able to take
classes either, so have not been able to keep up with the technology.
Consequently, other than routine maintenance, we have an outside consultant
come in and do most of the hard IT stuff.
My job has totally changed. I do not average an hour a week on CAD. In
fact, it has been almost a year since I have done any drafting at all.
The company decided that with all my years of experience they needed me to
do project management and the drafting has been left to cad operators.
However, and here is the tough part. They still expect me to be "Cad
Manager" without benefit of using cad (ADT3.3). When I have to address cad
issues, I have to rack my brain to remember stuff that was always readily
available in my mind.
As for the IT, they have not allowed me to take any classes to keep up with
the many, many changes. I guess they feel for the small amount of tough IT
work, it is better to bring in the third party rather than to send me to
classes.
Having gotten my BS and MBA at night, I am used to the grind of
work-school-work-school, but, at 55, am not really ready to jump into a long
term class schedule.
My suggestion is that knowledge is power. If you can get classes paid for
by the company go for it. If not, and you can afford it, I would suggest
taking classes at night. Even though what you learn may be above and beyond
what you need for your present job, the education sure looks good on a
resume and opens up many more avenues should you decide to make a move in
the future.
Winging it can be tough. I have done it here many times in our office and
am usually successful, but it takes me longer than it would our Consultant.
When I am not, we are at the mercy of our Consultant. Things get done when
he has time, not when we necessarily need it done.
Best of luck.

Stan


Stan Plesnarski, MBA
Project Manager
Muhlenberg/Greene Architects, Ltd.
"Gordon Price" wrote in message
news:4854595@discussion.autodesk.com...
Here is the scenario:
30 person, high design (high maintainence 😉 architecture firm. 20 CAD
users.
You've been CAD Manager (20 hours / week) for a few years at this office,
and have that part down pretty good.
You have previously been defacto IT manager at another office, with 4 users
and a WindowsXP P2P network.
The current office runs Windows Server 2003 & Exchange Server 2003. There
are some problems (corrupt Exchange database on occation, conflicting Group
Policy, etc.
The part time IT Manager is leaving, and you think the combined CAD/IT role
at 40 hours could be good.
BUT, you have no training and very little experience with the arcana of
Windows Server and Exchange.

So...
do you demand some intensive training as a condition of taking the job?
do you take the job and learn by the seat of your pants?
do you run screaming?

My gut feeling is this is just too important to learn by putting out fires
that could have been avoided, but that is also the only way this office has
ever had anyone learn this stuff. There is a possibility they could see the
light and go for the training, but a bigger chance they would not.

And, if you say training, does that mean the 1 week, $2000 MCSA classroom
stuff, or the Microsoft online version for $200, or Junior College classes,
or something else?

Thanks,
Gordon

[Anonymous]

"Gordon Price" wrote:
> snip <
conflicting Group Policys). The actual job I know I would like, the question
is, am I crazy to take it and do the training 'on the job' and mostly self
educated?
> snip <

Well, if you don't want it, I'll take... I'm just crazy enough. :O)

Have fun,
Dave

[Anonymous]

Congratulations on finding an opportunity to advance.
As others have said, I agree with the need for training. I don't see why
your company wouldn't pay for it. It will be cheaper than hiring a new IT
person that is not familiar with the office.
In the mean time, find a good consultant that can help you with any major
issues that might come up.


>>do you demand some intensive training..
Demand is such a harsh word.

>>do you take the job and learn by the seat of your pants?
What's your backup plan if that fails? How will you look if you relied on a
backup plan?

>>do you run screaming?
Sounds like you are more interested in IT than cad (like many of us). If you
think you will be happier in that position then go for it.


"Gordon Price" wrote in message
news:4854595@discussion.autodesk.com...
Here is the scenario:
30 person, high design (high maintainence 😉 architecture firm. 20 CAD
users.
You've been CAD Manager (20 hours / week) for a few years at this office,
and have that part down pretty good.
You have previously been defacto IT manager at another office, with 4 users
and a WindowsXP P2P network.
The current office runs Windows Server 2003 & Exchange Server 2003. There
are some problems (corrupt Exchange database on occation, conflicting Group
Policy, etc.
The part time IT Manager is leaving, and you think the combined CAD/IT role
at 40 hours could be good.
BUT, you have no training and very little experience with the arcana of
Windows Server and Exchange.

So...
do you demand some intensive training as a condition of taking the job?
do you take the job and learn by the seat of your pants?
do you run screaming?

My gut feeling is this is just too important to learn by putting out fires
that could have been avoided, but that is also the only way this office has
ever had anyone learn this stuff. There is a possibility they could see the
light and go for the training, but a bigger chance they would not.

And, if you say training, does that mean the 1 week, $2000 MCSA classroom
stuff, or the Microsoft online version for $200, or Junior College classes,
or something else?

Thanks,
Gordon