Title Blocks

[Clair VZ]

We (Civil/Survey Company) are currently going thru the corporate branding thing. In doing so, our title blocks will also be updated. I'd like some opinion on cutting edge insert/setup technics for Title blocks?
We have approx. 20 different blocks being inserted into plans. More efficient methods are a must! Dynamic Blocks? xrefs?

[rculp]

"" Bzzzt..... Failure to answer the question. ""

The question was, and I paraphrase, "How do you do the unnecessary faster" The answer is "don't". But if you're rigidly going to hold an unnecessary method, who cares if its faster?

If you really wish to drive between Houston and Dallas by way of New Orleans, carry on. But the faster way remains don't go through New Orleans.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Plotting has nothing to do with it. ""

You've just revised 1,027 drawings (without indicating the revision yet, by the way) with this "critical" information. You're not going to re-issue all these drawings to the necessary people?? You're not going to run multiple copies of these 1027 drawings to distribute to those needing this "critical" information?? If not, then it ain't all "that" critical and shouldn't be on the drawing anyway and is MUCH better handled on a single contact sheet.

[Anonymous]

Ha! That is exactly what they say! To me, the drawings are not complete
without the specs. We use to list vendor phone numbers and model numbers.
Guess what happened when vendors went belly up or changed their 800
number...

We xref our title blocks, but only because we haven't addressed the control
issue. We are consultants and typically use a title block that is sent to
us. I would like to start contracting this type of thing up front so we
don't have to deal with the darn thing constantly changing throughout the
project.

I never did understand why some people put all the contact information on
the title blocks. From what I have seen, most of them miss one or two
consultants anyway. I am willing to bet that it comes down to everyone
"getting credit"...

I also have never understood the concept of listing "1 of 1032" sheets. Is
someone counting them? Maybe I am missing something... couldn't this just
be listed on a transmittal or something?

One more question:
Say you were to send your drawings out to bid. Would you include the
contact sheet as part of the drawings and specs?





wrote in message news:5268221@discussion.autodesk.com...
"" I see our drawings as becoming a dumping ground for junk that project
managers don't know what to do with ""

That was here about 15 years ago. The excuse was, "they don't read specs".
They didn't have to, EVERY bloody thing was on the drawings down to
individual home phone numbers. What a PITB.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" What kind of information is on your title blocks? ""

Static, the client logo. Everything else is attributes (or fields for some
clients)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Once you change the contact sheet, who do you send it to? ""

The contact sheet contents. Our contact sheet(s) contain the names,
addresses, phone numbers, and email of everyone associated with the project
from design leads up. The project clerk maintains the list and an email
group. When it changes, she changes the issue date, and sends it out to
everyone on the list without killing a single tree.

[Anonymous]

Randy Culp wrote:
> "" Bzzzt..... Failure to answer the question. ""
>
> The question was, and I paraphrase, "How do you do the unnecessary
> faster" The answer is "don't". But if you're rigidly going to hold
> an unnecessary method, who cares if its faster?
>
> If you really wish to drive between Houston and Dallas by way of New
> Orleans, carry on. But the faster way remains don't go through New
> Orleans.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> "" Plotting has nothing to do with it. ""
>
> You've just revised 1,027 drawings (without indicating the revision
> yet, by the way) with this "critical" information. You're not going
> to re-issue all these drawings to the necessary people?? You're not
> going to run multiple copies of these 1027 drawings to distribute to
> those needing this "critical" information?? If not, then it ain't
> all "that" critical and shouldn't be on the drawing anyway and is
> MUCH better handled on a single contact sheet.

If you paraphrase, you're not answering the question. Things that you
are insisting are unnecessary are in fact quite often necessary to meet
the requirements of the client and or permitting agencies. You rail
against rigid adherence to a method, yet rigidly hold to your ideal of
the 'right' way to do things. These methods would put us out of work in
very short order, because we would never get our design permitted.

Case in point: a local county that we do a large volume of work in
requires all sets of construction plans to include a 'Neighborhood Site
Plan'. The information required on these plans exists already in the
paving and grading plans, the geometry plans, as well as the landscape
plans which are generated by another contractor. I despise these
drawings; they're unnecessary and dangerous in that they duplicate
information contained elsewhere. There is so much crap on these drawings
they damn near plot solid black. Because of the volume of information
shown on these plans and the fact that we rely on drawings from another
firm Xrefs are not a viable option. These plans need to be rebuilt from
the constituent plans, adjusting callouts and the like to prevent
overlaps, for each submittal. Now I'll be the first to say that this
sucks. It's a bad way to do things and I despise it with every once of
my being but if we want to do business in this county we have to do it
their way.

Bottom Line: You can drive straight from Houston to Dallas, but if your
contract requires you to pick something up in New Orleans, you'll do it
or go hungry.

~g

[rculp]

"" If you paraphrase, you're not answering the question. ""

The answer remains "don't"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Things that you are insisting are unnecessary are in fact quite often necessary to meet the requirements of the client and or permitting agencies. ""

I thought I've made that clear.. several times. Certainly you will follow their instructions, that doesn't make them any more intelligent or necessary.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" You rail against rigid adherence to a method, yet rigidly hold to your ideal of the 'right' way to do things. ""

As does everyone, right? Or do you agree that something is right when, in your opinion, it's wrong? It takes, at least, two to argue a point, both rigidly holding their ideals of "right" until proven otherwise or tire of the discussion.

I've come to my opinions by several thousand hours of use and responsibility for several million manhours of production. If you can break my methods please do, that's why I post here. So why should I "flop over" in favor of a poorer method when my "right" method sees no challenge other than "they want it that way". Just because some idiot client or agency "wants it that way" doesn't make it "right", it remains the poorer choice.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Now I'll be the first to say that this *****. It's a bad way to do things and I despise it with every once of my being ""

Then you agree with me. Or am I missing your point?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" You can drive straight from Houston to Dallas, but if your
contract requires you to pick something up in New Orleans, you'll do it or go hungry. ""

Again, I thought I've made that clear. " If they want it purple and upside down, buy the paint and get everybody out of it." However, that does NOT make it necessary or intelligent, just a waste of time.

[rculp]

"" Guess what happened when vendors went belly up or changed their 800 number...""

According to everyone else, you just changed the one file and you were done, right? ("they" skip the part about noting the revision and making multiple prints of 1027 drawing to be re-issued to several dozen folks)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" I would like to start contracting this type of thing up front so we don't have to deal with the darn thing constantly changing throughout the project. ""

Only way to fly. You must be very clear at contract what you're going to deliver, what is "fixed" data, the remedies for changes, etc. Many clients don't understand the cost of some of their petty requirements and when they see it, they usually pass.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" I never did understand why some people put all the contact information on the title blocks. ""

Because they can, or some mouth-breathing low-level government employee thinks it's "necessary" now, when it hasn't been for the last couple of centuries.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" I am willing to bet that it comes down to everyone
"getting credit"... ""

You may have something there, never thought of that. That might explain why they fight for it so much. hmmm...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" I also have never understood the concept of listing "1 of 1032" sheets. Is someone counting them? Maybe I am missing something... couldn't this just be listed on a transmittal or something? ""

I still miss that as well, especially when our typical projects can run 20,000 to 30,000 sheets in 4 or 5 sizes from 2 or 3 dozen suppliers and contractors.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"" Say you were to send your drawings out to bid. Would you include the contact sheet as part of the drawings and specs?""

We use a truncated contact list at bid that covers only the lead players in our organization.

[Anonymous]

""We use a truncated contact list at bid that covers only the lead players
in our organization.""

Interesting... this gives me something to think about...

[Anonymous]

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:32:05 +0000, Randy Culp <> wrote:

>"" Guess what happened when vendors went belly up or changed their 800 number...""
>
>According to everyone else, you just changed the one file and you were done, right? ("they" skip the part about noting the revision and making multiple prints of 1027 drawing to be re-issued to several dozen folks)

For many reasons I do not XREF title blocks. There is little if any
saving in file size and there are many instances where problems can
arise when the drawing sheet is changed.

On the subject of numbering of sheet sets, one client has the best
solution to this issue.

Where there is a drawing sheet set, Sheet 0 is an index sheet that
lists the number of sheets in the set, the title of each drawing and
the current revision of each of the sheets in the set. The title of
each drawing in the set simply states it is SHEET n. There is nothing
in the title itself that indicates the number of sheets in the set. If
a drawing nominates it is SHEET n, then you look for Sheet 0 to see
what the rest of the drawings in the set are.

When sheets are revised, removed or added then the entire set does not
have to be reissued, just the amended sheet and Sheet 0.

[rculp]

"" For many reasons I do not XREF title blocks. ""

AACCKK!! Ouch, I think I pulled a muscle. Ian agreed with me. whoo hoo.

[Anonymous]

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:57:57 +0000, Randy Culp <> wrote:

>"" For many reasons I do not XREF title blocks. ""
>
>AACCKK!! Ouch, I think I pulled a muscle. Ian agreed with me. whoo hoo.

I don't know what came over me 😉

[rculp]

"" I don't know what came over me 😉 ""

Me either, but you want to get it looked at by a professional. 😉