So u want to be a CAD manager...

[Anonymous]

Hey all! With the New Year at the doorstep, I've done some soul searching and need some help in pursuing a New Year's resolution. I want to be a CAD Manager... Where do I start? (I know...it's a loaded question, with many more loaded responses.) Before you answer, here's the skinny: I'm working for a small firm that is rapidly becoming a mid-sized firm. I have ACAD & ADT training, and just enough IT knowledge to be dangerous. We have an IT guy on an on-call basis. HOWEVER, OUR STANDARDS (CAD, DRAWING, ETC) ARE ALL SCREWED UP!!! Anyway, the firm will never hire a CAD manager from the outside...soooo...I was thinking I could slide into the position. What 🙂 pointers can you give me to get going in the right direction? Is there a biginning CAD MAnager course you can suggest? How about books? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Anne... Nifty little trick. ;-) "Anne Brown" wrote in message news:41DC43A3.78C411A8@autodesk.com... > Take out the NO SPAM from the email address he is showing > > > --- > Anne Brown > Discussion Groups Administrator > Autodesk, Inc. > > > gforsburg wrote: > > > > Forgive the goofy question, but how do I email you directly? > > "pkirill" wrote in message > > news:41dc2990$1_1@newsprd01..

[Anonymous]

Keeps auto-email harvesters from sending you garbage. Was a problem about 6 mths back. Matt "gforsburg" wrote in message news:41dc4423$1_1@newsprd01... > Thanks Anne... Nifty little trick. 😉

[Anonymous]

> Thanks Anne... Nifty little trick. ;-) You would be well advised to use that trick yourself, soon. The reason for it is that spammers and viruses harvest email addresses from newsgroups such as this. Your previous posts are vulnerable, and will remain available from now on to anybody in the world with Google, for instance. On the last worm attack on these NG's, my virus-infected spam suddenly went from zero to several dozen a day. I deleted my email address from my profile, but that address will continue be vulnerable due to posts I made years ago which contained it. The only real solution will be to change email accounts. In the olden days, when this was a Compuserve forum rather than a NG, it was considered "professional" to use your real name and email address. You'd be chastised, and ignored, for using clever handles or screen names. For the most part, you can still identify the old timers here by the full names, but they've all learned -- unfortunately, before I did -- that you should never supply a real email address in a public forum, without disguising it in such a manner.

[Anonymous]

Just take "NOSPAM" out of my email address (which you should see below)... "gforsburg" wrote in message news:41dc341b_1@newsprd01... > Forgive the goofy question, but how do I email you directly? > "pkirill" wrote in message > news:41dc2990$1_1@newsprd01... >> We have 37 people, 20 CAD users with a variety of skill levels. >> Glad to help. Feel free to email me direct if you want... >> >> "gforsburg" wrote in message >> news:41dbf68b$1_1@newsprd01... >> > pkirill, >> > >> > thank you. this was the kind of information I was looking for. >> > >> > 1 question: >> > how large is your firm? >> > >> > >> > "pkirill" wrote in message >> > news:41d319f3$1_2@newsprd01... >> >> Here's two cents from someone who has "worked their way up" to CM in 4 >> >> companies in the last 12 years... >> >> >> >> First. I have learned to disagree with the "show them what your worth" >> >> concept. I don't believe in developing a set of standards and THEN >> >> asking >> >> to be the CM (I know that's understating the process, but you know >> >> what > I >> >> mean). All that happens is you get overworked trying to maintain your >> >> "billable" load and develop standards which is a full time job in > itself. >> >> And honestly, why would they give a title and/or raise when you've >> >> already >> >> proven you'll do the work without it? ("Why buy the cow..." and all > that) >> >> All you do is raise the bar of expectations and when you miss a > deadline >> > you >> >> rarely get "Well, he did develop all those standards..." Instead you > get >> >> what anybody else gets when they miss a deadline. >> >> >> >> Instead, develop a proposal starting with a detailed outline of what > you >> >> mean when you say "standards". Most people just think lineweight and >> >> titleblock or maybe a manual of some kind, but you know it's more than >> > that. >> >> Provide a few specific examples of what you're not doing right and how >> >> standards will pull it together. Estimate (conservatively - big >> >> numbers >> > will >> >> be dismmissed) how much developing standards will cost - which >> >> includes >> > the >> >> billable hours you won't be billing - and the ultimate return on that >> >> investment. There are (somewhat) tangible returns like reducing the >> > amount >> >> of time to search for details, reducing new hire learning curve, etc. >> >> Then >> >> there are intangibles like corporate image (all drawings look the > same), >> >> branding (everyone using the same logo image), etc. I think you'll >> >> find >> > that >> >> you'll get the biggest ROI by identifying gaps or problems in your >> > processes >> >> rather than identifying which lineweight looks better. In other >> >> words, >> > it's >> >> not the fact that Bob and Jane use two different detail blocks to show >> >> the >> >> same detail - the bigger issue is that Frank and Cindy can't find > either >> > of >> >> those blocks and spend 20 minutes trying to remember which project > last >> >> used it. A well presented proposal will show how serious you are about >> >> how >> >> important a CM position is to the company. It needn't be an oral or >> >> Powerpoint proposal. I believe a written proposal (using color and > nice >> >> folder) is a better starting point. If you can get them to read that, >> >> you >> >> can follow up with the Powerpoint "executive summary". >> >> >> >> Beyond that, don't try to show management how or why YOU would make a >> >> good >> >> CM. Take the "YOU" out of the equation and show them why a CM is a >> >> necessary position. Start by identifying the company's "mission." >> >> Surpisingly few companies ever share it, but they typically have one - >> >> crappy as it may be. From there clarify the role of a CM in your >> >> organization by idenitifying duties and responsibilities that support > the >> >> mission - ie create a job description. (Define the role before you put >> >> yourself in it.) Also include where the CM would fall in the food >> >> chain >> > and >> >> what percentage of his/her time would still be billable (I average > about >> > 40% >> >> across a year). Ideally the CM should report directly to an exec or >> >> principal that has direct influence over CAD users. Identify that > person >> > and >> >> make your proposals there first. >> >> >> >> You can use the fact that your firm is growing to your (or the "CM's") >> >> advantage. The productivity loss you identify now will increase with >> > every >> >> new person you bring on board. Every productivy gain a CM could >> >> implement >> >> will increase with each new person also. >> >> >> >> Just my thoughts... >> >> >> >> >> >> "gforsburg" wrote in message >> >> news:41d18b59$1_1@newsprd01... >> >> > Hey all! With the New Year at the doorstep, I've done some soul >> > searching >> >> > and need some help in pursuing a New Year's resolution. >> >> > >> >> > I want to be a CAD Manager... Where do I start? (I know...it's a >> >> > loaded >> >> > question, with many more loaded responses.) >> >> > >> >> > Before you answer, here's the skinny: >> >> > >> >> > I'm working for a small firm that is rapidly becoming a mid-sized > firm. >> > I >> >> > have ACAD & ADT training, and just enough IT knowledge to be > dangerous. >> >> > >> >> > We have an IT guy on an on-call basis. HOWEVER, OUR STANDARDS (CAD, >> >> > DRAWING, ETC) ARE ALL SCREWED UP!!! >> >> > >> >> > Anyway, the firm will never hire a CAD manager from the >> >> > outside...soooo...I >> >> > was thinking I could slide into the position. >> >> > >> >> > What 🙂 pointers can you give me to >> >> > get >> >> > going in the right direction? >> >> > >> >> > Is there a biginning CAD MAnager course you can suggest? How about >> > books? >> >> > >> >> > Thanks. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > >

[Anonymous]

How can you use the word "discussions" to describe that debacle? I'm glad Ms. Brown gave the choke-chain a jerk to get things under control again. -- Don Reichle "King Of Work-Arounds" Barghausen Consulting Engineers Kent, WA USA LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 On WIN2K SP4 Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 512MB RAM NVIDIA 32MB AGP "erc" wrote in message news:41dc1db4$1_1@newsprd01... > One other thought is how to participate in discussions like is going on in > "Dimensions in paper Space???!!" > > "gforsburg" wrote in message > news:41dbf68b$1_1@newsprd01... > > pkirill, > > > > thank you. this was the kind of information I was looking for. > > > > 1 question: > > how large is your firm? > > > > > > "pkirill" wrote in message > > news:41d319f3$1_2@newsprd01... > > > Here's two cents from someone who has "worked their way up" to CM in 4 > > > companies in the last 12 years... > > > > > > First. I have learned to disagree with the "show them what your worth" > > > concept. I don't believe in developing a set of standards and THEN > asking > > > to be the CM (I know that's understating the process, but you know what > I > > > mean). All that happens is you get overworked trying to maintain your > > > "billable" load and develop standards which is a full time job in > itself. > > > And honestly, why would they give a title and/or raise when you've > already > > > proven you'll do the work without it? ("Why buy the cow..." and all > that) > > > All you do is raise the bar of expectations and when you miss a deadline > > you > > > rarely get "Well, he did develop all those standards..." Instead you get > > > what anybody else gets when they miss a deadline. > > > > > > Instead, develop a proposal starting with a detailed outline of what you > > > mean when you say "standards". Most people just think lineweight and > > > titleblock or maybe a manual of some kind, but you know it's more than > > that. > > > Provide a few specific examples of what you're not doing right and how > > > standards will pull it together. Estimate (conservatively - big numbers > > will > > > be dismmissed) how much developing standards will cost - which includes > > the > > > billable hours you won't be billing - and the ultimate return on that > > > investment. There are (somewhat) tangible returns like reducing the > > amount > > > of time to search for details, reducing new hire learning curve, etc. > Then > > > there are intangibles like corporate image (all drawings look the same), > > > branding (everyone using the same logo image), etc. I think you'll find > > that > > > you'll get the biggest ROI by identifying gaps or problems in your > > processes > > > rather than identifying which lineweight looks better. In other words, > > it's > > > not the fact that Bob and Jane use two different detail blocks to show > the > > > same detail - the bigger issue is that Frank and Cindy can't find either > > of > > > those blocks and spend 20 minutes trying to remember which project last > > > used it. A well presented proposal will show how serious you are about > how > > > important a CM position is to the company. It needn't be an oral or > > > Powerpoint proposal. I believe a written proposal (using color and nice > > > folder) is a better starting point. If you can get them to read that, > you > > > can follow up with the Powerpoint "executive summary". > > > > > > Beyond that, don't try to show management how or why YOU would make a > good > > > CM. Take the "YOU" out of the equation and show them why a CM is a > > > necessary position. Start by identifying the company's "mission." > > > Surpisingly few companies ever share it, but they typically have one - > > > crappy as it may be. From there clarify the role of a CM in your > > > organization by idenitifying duties and responsibilities that support > the > > > mission - ie create a job description. (Define the role before you put > > > yourself in it.) Also include where the CM would fall in the food chain > > and > > > what percentage of his/her time would still be billable (I average about > > 40% > > > across a year). Ideally the CM should report directly to an exec or > > > principal that has direct influence over CAD users. Identify that person > > and > > > make your proposals there first. > > > > > > You can use the fact that your firm is growing to your (or the "CM's") > > > advantage. The productivity loss you identify now will increase with > > every > > > new person you bring on board. Every productivy gain a CM could > implement > > > will increase with each new person also. > > > > > > Just my thoughts... > > > > > > > > > "gforsburg" wrote in message > > > news:41d18b59$1_1@newsprd01... > > > > Hey all! With the New Year at the doorstep, I've done some soul > > searching > > > > and need some help in pursuing a New Year's resolution. > > > > > > > > I want to be a CAD Manager... Where do I start? (I know...it's a > loaded > > > > question, with many more loaded responses.) > > > > > > > > Before you answer, here's the skinny: > > > > > > > > I'm working for a small firm that is rapidly becoming a mid-sized > firm. > > I > > > > have ACAD & ADT training, and just enough IT knowledge to be > dangerous. > > > > > > > > We have an IT guy on an on-call basis. HOWEVER, OUR STANDARDS (CAD, > > > > DRAWING, ETC) ARE ALL SCREWED UP!!! > > > > > > > > Anyway, the firm will never hire a CAD manager from the > > > > outside...soooo...I > > > > was thinking I could slide into the position. > > > > > > > > What 🙂 pointers can you give me to > get > > > > going in the right direction? > > > > > > > > Is there a biginning CAD MAnager course you can suggest? How about > > books? > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

[Anonymous]

> As I stated in my earlier post, it's > pretty much meaningless to put a time percentage on this task without > giving > a detailed description of the nature of the firm and its work. I don't do > less work than Paul because I'm slack or I don't want to, I do less > because > our firm simply does not need it. > > At least in my area, I think it's a safe bet that in the A/E realm, you > couldn't find anyone in a firm of 20 people or less who spends the > majority > of their time on this task all year round, or has it in their job > description. It's all true. (I make a nice part time living from those folks) My previous "CAD Manager" positions were pretty much self titled, and I was "allowed" to do that CAD Management stuff as long as I maintained my billable. As I changed jobs, I looked for firms that were more forward thinking than the last and worked my way to actually being rewarded (bonuses, little more raise than the next guy). Now I spend more time "managing" that "producing". I remember posting the I average about 40% billable time (can't find it now) - but I should have been clear that the other 60% is not ALL CAD management. I'm also the "Systems Manager" - I take care of the network hardware and software, train new users on not just AutoCAD, teach "This is your Outlook" classes, etc. IMHO - CAD Management in all organizations means identifying the (CAD) needs of the organization and taking care of them. No more no less. Some places that's putting together a 20 page standards manual for the five of you to share and you're done. Other places it's travelling around the country to the different offices to install and train 150 users on a custom menu package that you developed. Sometimes you're the only one who can see the need, so filling it can be tough, but if it were easy everybody'd be doing it...

[Anonymous]

To all: Can't you please snip you posts? Matt mstachoni@comcast.net mstachoni@bhhtait.com

[Anonymous]

Actually Matt, some of us prefer it this way, as odd as that may seem. Saves me time in having to retrieve previous posts, to check and make sure I said what I'm being accused of saying. And along the same lines, it means that the use of "posting bytes" by others can be checked against the original. Example: When I "snip>" then anyone can read the part I snipped in relationship to the context. It's kind of like the News Network whose slogan is "Fair and Balanced", as opposed to the rest of them. My $1.98 (allowing for inflation). :-) -- Don Reichle "King Of Work-Arounds" Barghausen Consulting Engineers Kent, WA USA LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 On WIN2K SP4 Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 512MB RAM NVIDIA 32MB AGP "Matt Stachoni" wrote in message news:7snot0dv46tl4livsh31n3130hc62i651l@4ax.com... > To all: > > Can't you please snip you posts? > > Matt > mstachoni@comcast.net > mstachoni@bhhtait.com

[Anonymous]

Just as an aside, those using the HTTP web based side of the groups CANNOT snip their posts. The moderators have requested that ability be added to the discussion group software wishlist. --- Anne Brown Discussion Groups Administrator Autodesk, Inc. Matt Stachoni wrote: > > To all: > > Can't you please snip you posts?

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply, Paul. I hope the O.P. gets the message that this role can vary a lot. Sounds like you came up from the trenches much like I did. In my last job, I was the whole IT staff for a 30-person firm, and had the chore of dragging them into the world of networking, Windows, the internet, and three versions upward in Acad. I had to do all software training and troubleshooting, and found myself responsible for every doggone thing that operated on electricity. In that job, I struggled to be about 40% billable! In my present job, I'm not the go-to person for anything computer-related except Acad, and we have much simpler needs and a more computer-literate and cooperative staff, so my strictly "CAD management" role takes much less time. However, I also have several other specialized tasks, so I do spend less time producing, overall, than the less senior people. Not to go off on another tangent, but our firm views the subject of "standards" much differently than is usually described in this NG. We use the term to mean the overall quality control of our final documents, as it relates to code compliance, accuracy, completeness, graphical consistency, and so forth. I chair a committee responsible for this larger subject. The CAD thing, in our view, is simply a means to an end. It happens to be the part that I mostly handle, but it's no more important to our overall goals than our checking/revision process or our documentation of procedures and checklists.

[Anonymous]

> Actually Matt, some of us prefer it this way, as odd as that may seem. If I understand Matt correctly, he means doing what I've done here -- including enough of a quote to make a bit of sense, without requoting the entire doggone message, with header, signature, and all. On the web based side, IMHO, it makes it an absolute nightmare to try to get through a thread, and it's not much less intrusive in my newsreader. Posting in HTML format is equally nightmarish for those who don't happen to be able to receive it. I know of discussion groups which specifically disallow requoting, because of the excess clutter which does nothing for the comprehensibility og the thread as a whole, and because it eliminates those interminable, insufferable point-by-point rebuttals which we see when a thread degenerates into a flame war. Some discussion group hosts are of the oipinion that this capability is exactly what causes that kind of argumentation.

[Anonymous]

And as far as your including one line of my post, you've just proved my point. But I'm applying the fire extinguisher right now, and won't take this spark any further. -- Don Reichle "King Of Work-Arounds" Barghausen Consulting Engineers Kent, WA USA LDT3 - SP1/CD3 - SP1 On WIN2K SP4 Dell 1.6 Ghz P4 512MB RAM NVIDIA 32MB AGP "Tom Smith" wrote in message news:41dc698c_2@newsprd01... > > Actually Matt, some of us prefer it this way, as odd as that may seem. > > If I understand Matt correctly, he means doing what I've done here -- > including enough of a quote to make a bit of sense, without requoting the > entire doggone message, with header, signature, and all. On the web based > side, IMHO, it makes it an absolute nightmare to try to get through a > thread, and it's not much less intrusive in my newsreader. Posting in HTML > format is equally nightmarish for those who don't happen to be able to > receive it. > > I know of discussion groups which specifically disallow requoting, because > of the excess clutter which does nothing for the comprehensibility og the > thread as a whole, and because it eliminates those interminable, > insufferable point-by-point rebuttals which we see when a thread degenerates > into a flame war. Some discussion group hosts are of the oipinion that this > capability is exactly what causes that kind of argumentation. > >

[old-cadaver]

>and because it eliminates those interminable, insufferable point-by-point rebuttals which we see when a thread degenerates into a flame war. Some discussion group hosts are of the oipinion that this capability is exactly what causes that kind of argumentation.<

hmmm... well then I'm curious, how does one respond to a post that has a dozen point that require addressing without at least mentioning the original point?

Take this thread as an example, this particular branch has nothing at all to do with the original post and is actually a sub-branch of another off-topic branch. Without quoting the point to which I am responding the thread would be extremely difficult to follow.

[Tom Smith]

> how does one respond to a post that has a dozen pointthat require addressing

In that case, perhaps one could summarize by saying something along the lines of, "Every single thing you say is wrong, and Hell will freeze over before I agree with you in any way," and let it go. Or just let it go without doing that. Or, more constructively, one might state one's own position on its own merits, without descending into the false paradigm posited by the offending post. And then, perhaps, let it go. One can't always convince the hard-headed and ignorant.

> Without quoting the point to which I am responding the thread would be extremely difficult to follow.

Granted, and for the sake of clarity I'm snipping one more phrase. Your spirited responses are good examples of quoting the relevant bits, as opposed to echoing the whole blooming message in all its entirety -- header, footer, and all. I don't see that as ever being necessary. In either of the interfaces that I can access, it's relatively clear who's responding to what. A phrase or a sentence is enough to put one's response in context. We don't need the whole post repeated verbatim.

The point-by-point rehashing of an irreconcilable disagreement is perhaps a separate issue. If you can do it succinctly, good on you, but personally my interest fades real fast on that kind of thing. Obviously, others must love it. Whatever. Carry on, it's a free country.

But if everybody attaches the full text of the message to which they're replying, which attaches the full text ot the message to which it replied, and so on, then we'll all be spending all our time scrolling down through everything that has already been posted before. That's all I'm saying. It ought to be possible to snip relevant bits without repeating the whole mess.

[Anonymous]

> Not to go off on another tangent, but our firm views the subject of > "standards" much differently than is usually described in this NG. We use > the term to mean the overall quality control of our final documents, as it > relates to code compliance, accuracy, completeness, graphical consistency, > and so forth. That's much the same way we deal with it. Line, blocks, and plots are a small part of it. When we say "Standards" we are (or should be) refering to the collection of "CAD Standards," "Design Standards," and "QC Standards." The term "Standards", I think, is very similar to the term "CAD Manager". It has been evolving over the years and its broad meaning is as individual as the firm in which it is used. I think there's an article waiting to be written in there somewhere...

[Anonymous]

>To all: > >Can't you please snip you posts? > >Matt >mstachoni@comcast.net >mstachoni@bhhtait.com Phew!! Was gonna say the same myself! Thanks Matt!

[Anonymous]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:06:19 -0500, Anne Brown wrote: >Just as an aside, those using the HTTP web based side of the >groups CANNOT snip their posts. Well, THAT'S dopey. I know of many HHTP based discussion groups that don't automatically quoteback but do allow you to quote blocks of the previous message to make your own post comprehensible. Matt mstachoni@comcast.net mstachoni@bhhtait.com

[Anonymous]

Possibly it dates back to the days of near dialup speeds and limited internet access times? I know that when I started on these groups about 8 years ago, we had one workstation with net access and 56k modem. You'd enter a search (via web interface), wait a few minutes for the list of responses, click the show all topics option, wait another 10 minutes, then start wading. It was nice to be able to go to the last couple threads and get everything. On a long thread, it seems the "answer" is rarely actually in the last few posts instead, it's in the middle somewhere followed by stuff like this. These days speed and access is not the issue for the majority I suppose and I prefer snipped threads and quotes. But then I use OE, not the web...

[Anonymous]

> The term "Standards", I think, is very similar to the term "CAD Manager". > It has been evolving over the years and its broad meaning is as individual > as the firm in which it is used. I think there's an article waiting to be > written in there somewhere... I agree, sounds like we're on the same wavelength. It might be good to post some of these ideas in the "Advantages - Standards" thread. The computer tools are an important element contributing to QC, but they're only part of the equation. As new issues come up, we first decide on how to apply (or revise) the "standard," then we discuss how our block/menus/whatever might need to change to support it.

[old-cadaver]

<>

Very true, in the context of a CAD forum, a discussion of "standards" would be expected to revolve around "CAD standards".

We've found that controlling the CAD standards goes a long way in accomplishing the others you mentioned, specifically "code compliance, accuracy, completeness, graphical consistency". The more we "standardize" this by automation within AutoCAD, the easier it becomes to comply. Therefore CAD becomes a means to those ends as well.