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*Aasen Jr, Carroll
Message 1 of 5 (122 Views)

Online Training, University/College or CADD courses?

122 Views, 4 Replies
11-30-2000 05:13 AM
Online Training, University/College or CADD courses?

I need to help get some guys trained in our office and just got back from a
Public Engineers (This was only open to staff from Government Agencies:
State, County, City & others as Soil & Water): Engineering & Technology
conference. I attended a couple sessions dealing with new technology &
training/online training. I found a number of others interested in good
training without having to send staff to a vendor location half way across
the state or pay huge sums to have someone come inhouse to do training.

I would like to know if anybody uses or has used any online training courses
from a vendor or educational institution/college etc.?

Does anyone know of any AutoCAD and/or Land Development Desktop/Civil Design
courses offered online?

I recommended their first option to answer questions is getting into the
autodesk newsgroups. Then, call their vendors, etc. A number of these
people need more training but have low budgets and sending someone out of
town for 2-3 nights or more for training is out of the question. They are
interested in Online resources.

Any ideas would sure be welcome.

Thanks

Carroll Aasen Jr, Hwy Design Tech.
Carver County Public Works, MN.
caasen@co.carver.mn.us
*patvicki
Message 2 of 5 (122 Views)

Re: Online Training, University/College or CADD courses?

11-30-2000 06:04 AM in reply to: *Aasen Jr, Carroll
Carroll, I have looked at CD's in the past and actually tried one. It might be
how people learn, but I will not do that again. I think it is too hard to
replace a teacher (instructor) and the money you would spend on training would
be well worth it compared to working on-line. My .02 worth

pat

Carroll Aasen Jr wrote:

> Online Training, University/College or CADD courses?
>
> I need to help get some guys trained in our office and just got back from a
> Public Engineers (This was only open to staff from Government Agencies:
> State, County, City & others as Soil & Water): Engineering & Technology
> conference. I attended a couple sessions dealing with new technology &
> training/online training. I found a number of others interested in good
> training without having to send staff to a vendor location half way across
> the state or pay huge sums to have someone come inhouse to do training.
>
> I would like to know if anybody uses or has used any online training courses
> from a vendor or educational institution/college etc.?
>
> Does anyone know of any AutoCAD and/or Land Development Desktop/Civil Design
> courses offered online?
>
> I recommended their first option to answer questions is getting into the
> autodesk newsgroups. Then, call their vendors, etc. A number of these
> people need more training but have low budgets and sending someone out of
> town for 2-3 nights or more for training is out of the question. They are
> interested in Online resources.
>
> Any ideas would sure be welcome.
>
> Thanks
>
> Carroll Aasen Jr, Hwy Design Tech.
> Carver County Public Works, MN.
> caasen@co.carver.mn.us
*Harper, Chip
Message 3 of 5 (122 Views)

Re: Online Training, University/College or CADD courses?

11-30-2000 09:11 PM in reply to: *Aasen Jr, Carroll
Just received this in my email today .....

Update your technical skills on AutoCAD 2000i and other Autodesk software
without leaving the office. Starting in December, Autodesk e-Learning
introduces Virtual Classroom Training - an instructor-led training event
series broadcast live over the Web to your desktop. It's a quick convenient
way to learn how to be more productive with your Autodesk software.

Each online event features live lecture, demonstrations, and hands-on
training exercises, plus Autodesk e-Learning lessons to take away and
practice what you learned in class.

The December series of Virtual Classroom Training events features the new
Internet-enabled capabilities of AutoCAD 2000i, covering user interface and
usability enhancements, Internet-driven design, collaborative design, and
publishing to the Web.

All Virtual Classroom Training courses are offered at a low introductory
price of US$74.95. Register today and find out how easy it is to power up
your productivity and learn new skills through Virtual Classroom Training
from Autodesk.

My job here at Autodesk is to keep you updated on the news and special
offers that pertain to your area of interest. To ensure that I pass along
the correct information, please update me on the types of information you
would like to receive by clicking here.

Or, if you don't want me to send you anymore email, you can unsubscribe by
replying to this email with "Unsubscribe" as the subject. Please include the
body of this message in your reply.

Sincerely,

Elizabeth Arlington
Director of Business Development
Autodesk, Inc.

This link was included in the message ....

http://216.32.180.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=aa6cfb33abb03e40643360268c
825b4e&lat=975675917&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fautodesk%2eemarkethost%2enet%2
fmk%2fget%2fELEARNINGLINK%3f_ED%3de21yLgXT%2dBM7s6PK4pk0Z6
*Gary.Vandawalker
Message 4 of 5 (122 Views)

Re: Online Training, University/College or CADD courses?

11-30-2000 09:37 PM in reply to: *Aasen Jr, Carroll
Hi Carrol,

I work for the USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service in Syracuse, NY. I
am a Civil Engineering Technician and the State CADD Coordinator. I too am
looking for some on-line sources for training in the LDD2 arena. I've had no
luck. In fact, most of the training is aimed at AutoCAD2000 and not the
add-ons.

Our agency is in the same boat as other government agencies, private firms
etc. We just don't have the money to send our CADD operators to vendor training
for LDD2. The costs can be astronomical: $200-300/day and more. It adds up fast
when you have a many users and each wants 3 days of training, plus overnight
accommodations. Once in a blue moon we might get some but there can be a gap of
2-3 years before you get to go again. And we all know how much changes in 2-3
years, especially when you do upgrades within that time. We've come to the
conclusion that we now have enough knowledgeable users to start conducting our
own training sessions.

I've looked into a program called Camtasia. It seems to be a promising method
of getting (some) training to people. The program runs in the background while
you run LDD and it captures all your screen movements. The result is an AVI
video that can be distributed to users by various methods (the AVI files get
big). Audio can also be added.

Most of our users have been to a community college (economical and effective) to
learn either the AutoCAD or in some cases, Softdesk (when we had R13 and
Softdesk). Those same people have migrated into LDD2 and have had relatively
good luck making the transition, picking things up on their own. However, a
shot in the arm of training would go a long way and likely break some barriers
some of us are having with functions in the program.

I recently formed the New York State CADD Committee. The committee is comprised
of Civil and Agricultural Engineers, a Soil Conservationist, Water Quality
Specialist, and a Resource Conservation Specialist. Some of us are NRCS
employees, others are Soil and Water Conservation District Employees. All of us
are CADD and Total Station operators. A great mix of people who as a whole,
know how to run this equipment. We've set following goals for ourselves (in
order of priority):

1. Develop conventions for:
a) surveys conducted with Total Station Survey Instruments and Electronic
Data Collectors
b) designing and drafting with CADD software

2. Collect and develop electronic versions of standard drawings and details of
conservation practices for use by CADD and non-CADD users. Decide on a method
of distributing CADD drawings as they are developed.

3. Update the NYS CADD Handbook to reflect the current version of software, and
include additional routines. Decide on a method of distributing the handbook
and future updates.

4. Evaluate training needs in New York. Identify resources for providing
training. Develop training modules for in-house sessions.

5. Evaluate and make recommendations for state-wide equipment needs (includes
Software).

6. Achieve common user level amongst Committee members.

7. Develop a CADD workstation and Total Station Surveying Instrument maintenance
policy/guide/schedule.

8. Improve communication with CADD users in other Northeast states.

I've attempted to deal with all of the above but lack time to thoroughly deal
with them on my own. Many deserve the input from the users ( I don't want to be
a dictator). Through the committee I hope to accelerate the development of what
I have started, and gain a greater level of buy-in from all the users across the
state.

I know my rambling has gone way off base from your original concern, but I find
it interesting to hear what approaches other people are taking toward this LDD
beast, and hope that others will find my jibber interesting too, and helpful.

take care,

Gary Vandawalker

Carroll Aasen Jr wrote:

> Online Training, University/College or CADD courses?
>
> I need to help get some guys trained in our office and just got back from a
> Public Engineers (This was only open to staff from Government Agencies:
> State, County, City & others as Soil & Water): Engineering & Technology
> conference. I attended a couple sessions dealing with new technology &
> training/online training. I found a number of others interested in good
> training without having to send staff to a vendor location half way across
> the state or pay huge sums to have someone come inhouse to do training.
>
> I would like to know if anybody uses or has used any online training courses
> from a vendor or educational institution/college etc.?
>
> Does anyone know of any AutoCAD and/or Land Development Desktop/Civil Design
> courses offered online?
>
> I recommended their first option to answer questions is getting into the
> autodesk newsgroups. Then, call their vendors, etc. A number of these
> people need more training but have low budgets and sending someone out of
> town for 2-3 nights or more for training is out of the question. They are
> interested in Online resources.
>
> Any ideas would sure be welcome.
>
> Thanks
>
> Carroll Aasen Jr, Hwy Design Tech.
> Carver County Public Works, MN.
> caasen@co.carver.mn.us
*Dillon, Matt
Message 5 of 5 (122 Views)

Re: Online Training, University/College or CADD courses?

12-02-2000 12:57 PM in reply to: *Aasen Jr, Carroll
My input, for what it's worth, as an instructor:

Live, instructor led training, in a classroom is the traditional method of
learning, and in my opinion, provides the best and most effective overall
training experience (assuming of course, that the instructor knows what
they're doing and the facility is decent). You get more personalized
attention and have an "expert" (whatever that is) at your immediate disposal
for the duration of the class. The disadvantage is that it is typically
expensive, you may or may not have to travel to take the class, and you may
get more training than you really need if you're looking for instruction on
a very focused topic. Additionally, corporate-style, industry related
classroom training will typically involve large blocks of time away from
"work" and that cost has to be factored in, although typically it is well
worth it in the long run.

Traditional college courses in CAD will be presented over a longer period of
time, can frequently be taken at night or on weekends, so that you don't
have as much time away from work. They will probably cost less as well. The
material is presented in smaller chunks over time than in industry training.
The downside is that you will take much longer to get the same amount of
instruction, and the quality of the instruction *may be* (I said MAY BE, so
please don't anybody flame me here ) of lesser quality than industry
training. The reason I say this is because typically industry trainers are
either still active in the industry or are at least still in touch with
current industry practices. This is a huge generalization, and does not
apply to all.

Books and CD's have their place. But I wouldn't call it "instruction".
Learning, yes. But it all depends upon your ability to learn effectively
without some type of mentoring. That depends on the individual. They aren't
interactive. It's kind of hard to ask a book or a CD a question or have it
review and critique your work.

On-line training consists of two types - asynchronous and synchronous, which
translates to "live" and "recorded or non-interactive".

Synchronous, on-line training, I think, will really take hold in the next
few years and I am personally very excited by the possibilities. However we
aren't there yet. While we can use technologies like PlaceWare and WebEx to
deliver the video portion and interactive capabilities for instructor
feedback and Q/A. The problem is audio. Streaming audio is too slow and
there's too much of a lag. Netmeeting and similar technologies don't play
nice with firewalls, etc. The only real option right now is conference
calling, and THAT's the problem. At 22-25 cents per minute, it drives the
cost of on-line training out of the market. But I see this as a temporary
condition. Extremely temporary. Watch for more offerings from a variety of
sources (including us) in the future, as the technology improves and the
cost of delivery comes down. Ideally, we'll be able to deliver, live,
interactive classes over the internet, on very focused topics. Figure a 90
minute to 2 hour time-frame, no software to download or install, for
(hopefully) around $50 to $75 per person.

Asynchronous, on-line training is a little better than CD or book-based, as
it can still be somewhat interactive in the right circumstances. You can
download courses, take them at your own pace, and ideally, there is a
bulletin board or email address where you can post questions and carry on
"discussions". Here's an interesting experiment for you. Go to the autodesk
web site at http://www.autodesk.com and do a search on "e-learning". See
what you come up with.

My advice for you now? From what you describe, you have some people who need
fairly complete training in LDDT, and they're coming from ground zero. I
recommend you consider biting the bullet and finding a good ATC or ASC near
you (or not so near) where you can get quality instructor-led training in
the product. Do an ROI on the cost (including time away from the office) and
you'll still find that it will pay off in the long run.

--
***************************************************************
Please do not email me privately with technical issues
***************************************************************
Matt Dillon
Assistant Moderator - Autodesk Discussion Forums

The D.C. CADD Company, Inc.
http://www.dccadd.com
Carroll Aasen Jr wrote in message ...
>Online Training, University/College or CADD courses?
>
>I need to help get some guys trained in our office and just got back from a
>Public Engineers (This was only open to staff from Government Agencies:
>State, County, City & others as Soil & Water): Engineering & Technology
>conference. I attended a couple sessions dealing with new technology &
>training/online training. I found a number of others interested in good
>training without having to send staff to a vendor location half way across
>the state or pay huge sums to have someone come inhouse to do training.
>
>I would like to know if anybody uses or has used any online training
courses
>from a vendor or educational institution/college etc.?
>
>Does anyone know of any AutoCAD and/or Land Development Desktop/Civil
Design
>courses offered online?
>
>I recommended their first option to answer questions is getting into the
>autodesk newsgroups. Then, call their vendors, etc. A number of these
>people need more training but have low budgets and sending someone out of
>town for 2-3 nights or more for training is out of the question. They are
>interested in Online resources.
>
>Any ideas would sure be welcome.
>
>Thanks
>
>Carroll Aasen Jr, Hwy Design Tech.
>Carver County Public Works, MN.
>caasen@co.carver.mn.us
>
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