Autodesk Technology Managers Forum
Share your knowledge, ask questions, and engage with fellow CAD/BIM Managers.
cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

KIP Plotters and Oce Potters ?

22 REPLIES 22
Reply
Message 1 of 23
jimk
7723 Views, 22 Replies

KIP Plotters and Oce Potters ?

I have been searching trying to find some relevant info on anyone using a high volume KIP plotter, but haven't come across anything recent or new. We are looking ot replace our Xerox boxes with something new. KIP and OCE appear to be the two players in the market.

 

I have heard positives on both, but keep hearing KIP is a pain when it comes to support. Getting parts, etc. can be a pain. Not sure if that is accurate or not. The software and interface for a KIP also appears to be excellent.

 

Oce they say is built really well and rarely breaks down. Handles large plot volumes well, etc.

 

Our Xerox's are always broke down, something I would like to stay away from moving forward. Looking at either a couple of KIP 7900's with a scanner on one - or a couple of Oce TSD750's with a scanner on one.

 

We will be printing from Revit a lot - not sure how either of them play with that, and also dumping large amounts of DWFs and PDFs to them when we run mulitple sets.

 

Any feedback would be great, wasn't sure which forum to put this in, but thought I would start here, hoping some of you have expericences with these plotters and how they play with Revit or Cad.

 

thanks,

Jim

22 REPLIES 22
Message 2 of 23
Lance127
in reply to: jimk

I'd say go OCE. I used to work with a KIP plotter (5000, I think) and it was nothing but trouble. Was down more than it was up, service was just horriable, when it did print a good 10% were unusable because of streaking, or some other QC issue.

 

Lance


Lance W.
Inventor Pro 2013 (PDS Ultimate)
Vault Pro 2013
Windows 7 64
Xeon 2.4 Ghz 12GB
Message 3 of 23
jimk
in reply to: Lance127

Lance-

 

Thanks for weighing in. I have heard that the service/support for the KIP is an issue. Things are great when they are running correctly, but once you hit real world issues, it becomes a nightmare trying to get parts, etc.

 

Oce' I have heard, is built like a tank, very little issues, scanning is straight forward, etc. But for ease of use, I still hear KIP is better.

 

thanks again

Jim

Message 4 of 23
Lance127
in reply to: jimk

Having used both I would so there really is little overall "ease of use" difference between the two, they are just different problems.


Lance W.
Inventor Pro 2013 (PDS Ultimate)
Vault Pro 2013
Windows 7 64
Xeon 2.4 Ghz 12GB
Message 5 of 23
jimk
in reply to: Lance127

I can appreciate that. Did you happen to have a preference? Did one out perform the other? or just a wash

Message 6 of 23
ASCunningham
in reply to: jimk

I went from a xerox 510 (which was down all the time) to a Oce TDS750. We also have Plotwave 300's in our two smaller offices. Very little problems with any of them. We print a ton of Revit/PDF's to the TDS750 without any problems.

 

I don't have any experience with KIP but have been warned/read to stay away from them.

 

The only comment I have about the Oce's is that it seems to use more toner than the Xerox. I have to order a toner kit just about every month ($260) for two bottles. We do approx 15-25K sq ft a month in prints.

 

I would never go back to Xerox.. the Oce's are so much faster with little headache. They also print greyscales so much better, as I recall I don't think Xerox can even do greyscales.

Message 7 of 23
Lance127
in reply to: jimk

I think the OCE is a much better product. Every OCE I've ever worked with has just been a tank.


Lance W.
Inventor Pro 2013 (PDS Ultimate)
Vault Pro 2013
Windows 7 64
Xeon 2.4 Ghz 12GB
Message 8 of 23
jshipley
in reply to: jimk

We have had KIP plotters for many (probably 15) years.  They have served us well.  We probably print from 50 to 200 or so C or D size drawings every day.  Yes occasionally it breaks down as does any complex piece of equipment but they always have it back up in a few hours.  It has generally been a very good piece of equipment.  I think we have a KIP 5000. 

Jim

Message 9 of 23
David_Knight
in reply to: jshipley

We use an Oce 3000 series with color scanning.

 

Bang for your buck, we got way more out of our KIP than what we were offered from Oce.

 

I used Oce about 10 years ago, had no real issues with them.  no issues with our current kip either.  All printers have lemons and everyone will tell you about how crappy a product is when that happens.

 

I love our kip. We doubled its recommended yearly service load in the first 6 months we've had it.  And the only real problem that surfaced was that the service company we hired was inadequite.  we've since changed and have been very happy with our new provider.


I would recommend finding a good service company... It may drive you to a certain manufacturer even.  it really DOES matter.

Message 10 of 23
jimk
in reply to: David_Knight

I have to agree with the support, from my resarch and past experiences, it is what can make or break a plotter. Sounds like you are happy with KIPs, but currently using OCE. So based on that, it appears to come down to service.

Message 11 of 23
David_Knight
in reply to: jimk

Oops, made a typo in there.

 

We are currently using a KIP 3000!

Message 12 of 23
murray-clack
in reply to: David_Knight

We are using a KIP 5000.  The mechanical service for us has been excellent, so it must depend on local service.

 

It is tempermental (you lose your temper, then go mental) so you have to learn the subtle tricks.

 

Outstanding issue that drives us crazy is that the software engineers are very slow at keeping the drivers up to date when it comes to AutoCAD wipeouts and background masks.

 

One trick we learned for the KIP 5000 to get the masking to work was to use a previous version (6.5.80) of the desktop software when submitting the PLTs or converting the PLT files to PDFs (don't know why, but it works)

 

It does take a long time to warm up, and even longer to shut down and clear the memory.

 

It is fast at printing drawings, the desktop software is robust and easy to use (lots of cool features)

Message 13 of 23
PrintMore
in reply to: jimk

I think OCE and KIP are both great machines but it really depend on what you're using them for.  I run a repro shop with both KIP and OCE.  I use my OCE, which we have had for a long time, for quick print jobs and where quality is not much of a pronblem.  We've had these for about 7 years but because we paid so much money for it we're not going to upgrade any time soon. The problem is that the technology around these machines grows faster than most shops can afford to change or keep current so although they do last you also make them last as you have to dig a lot deeper to replace one of these.

 

Alternatevly, i have the same number of KIPs and we run most large jobs on them, we have many KIPs with over 45 million square feet in  them and we will replace soon.  Becasue they're so much cheaper to buy we upgrade these every other year or every three years.  They have the most current drivers and they play great with windows and RIPs and like most newer things they are faster, have better quality and do things better all around.  We also have in house operators that are factory trained techs that can work on my machines.  We've had some problems with OCE on service but because you can only deal with OCE you feel a little trapped some times where as with KIP you always have choices in most large cities.  All issues resolved now but as a shop owner you have to think on worst case scenarios and not only on the equipment but on the service and your options if something is not working out.

 

Over all would I recomend one or the other? I would recomend both.  OCE if you can afford the hit every few years to keep up with your competition and KIP if you want something that does the same job and is a little easier on the pocket book.  None of these brands would be in business if you took the worst comments on these boards at face value.  Both OCE and KIP depend on repeat business and they have it.  Obviusly there's a market for both.

Tags (1)
Message 14 of 23
rkmcswain
in reply to: jimk

We've used Oce's big boys (9800, TDS800, TDS860) for almost 15 years now. They are rock solid hardware beasts. Parts break on them due to wear and that's about it. We ran 6+ million sq. ft. through the last one, and we're working on 4 million sq. ft. on the current one. Service used to be rock solid but since Canon bought them, on-site response times have suffered some.

 

I would not recommend Oce's lightweight color inkjets (the last model we dealt with was a TCS500).

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Message 15 of 23
BlackBox_
in reply to: rkmcswain


@rkmcswain wrote:

We've used Oce's big boys (9800, TDS800, TDS860) for almost 15 years now. They are rock solid hardware beasts. Parts break on them due to wear and that's about it. We ran 6+ million sq. ft. through the last one, and we're working on 4 million sq. ft. on the current one. Service used to be rock solid but since Canon bought them, on-site response times have suffered some.

 

I would not recommend Oce's lightweight color inkjets (the last model we dealt with was a TCS500).


I'm reviving this old thread, as I've just gotten HP Financial to own up to the complete and utter failure their DesignJet T7100 *and* T7200 are, and they're paying off our lease, and paying for the return shipping.

 

Now - I'm looking for a new printer, and this popped up in a search - we used to have a KIP 3000 B/W laser, and the VP nearly took it into the parking lot to have an Office Space moment with a bat, but things (may) have changed, and we're looking for a Color Laser Plotter, and thought I'd see what others might recommend?

 

Many of our plan sets include color aerials where survey is not available, for clarity, etc. as well as for client presentations, public meetings, and whatnot.

 

We could go backwards to B/W plotting again, but not sure we want to. Haha

 

 

Cheers



"How we think determines what we do, and what we do determines what we get."

Message 16 of 23

I, too, would like to see some newer comments/experiences here.

 

We're in the beginning stages of considering a new KIP (880 or 980).  We have a 7700 (B&W) that's approaching 5 years & 1 million feet.  It has been very solid from a reliability standpoint and is still competitive from a performance standpoint.  I can attest...Service provider is key (I think it would be, no matter which brand).  The machine seems to be a little more "needy" recently (4 calls in 2 months).  We have used a separate plotter (HP T1120) for large-format color.  We even keep an HP 1050 for the occasional mylar.  I would love to cook that down to one machine.

 

I would consider an Oce'.  I don't know much about them though.  I hear good things (especially, from people who had a bad experience with KIP) and bad things.

 

Objective comparisons are hard to come by.

Phil Ferguson
Senior Designer / CAD Manager
The Kleingers Group
C3D 2024 on Windows 11 23H2
Message 17 of 23

My firm JUST put our 15 year old workhorse of an Oce TDS600 out to pasture about 2 weeks ago and in its place we've purchase an Oce PlotWave 550. We looked at color also -- an Oce ColorWave and HP Pagewide and based on usage, consumables cost and our history with the last plotter, the black & white PW550 was pretty much a no-brainer.

 

I've been CAD Manager/plotter guru at AEC firms for 25+/- years and worked with a variety of plotters including a solid yet touchy 1990s JDL3000E and a 1980s pen plotter that used to dry up faster than a rattlesnake at noon in Tucson and I can tell you that the Oce TDS600 was the hardest working plotter in the biz. It was considered unsupported a year or so back and so at some point, parts will no longer be available. We decided to jump and replace the plotter and get the ability to scan in color now before it started falling apart some day.

 

We've had our PlotWave550 for about 2 weeks now, and I've gotten it mostly configured with templates, etc. and we are looking at the same type of hardy technology that kept our first Oce cranking drawings out - sometimes by heavy-handed engineers who did some wacky things over the years and the ol' girl kept pace. So far I'm very much loving the Oce PW 550 - but we have yet to run it through it through some heavy-duty jobs or crank wacky scans through it.

 

I'd recommend Oce any day to anyone - for quality and value. Just do your homework when you are looking at Color vs. Black & White if you are on the fence about which way to go. There can be a lot of hidden consumables charges with color depending on what kind of technology you go with. Those large format inkjet printheads are expensive and need to be replaced on a schedule.

 

 

Message 18 of 23
BlackBox_
in reply to: muddyrunnergirl

We also ended up buying an Oce PlotWave 550, and took delivery just before New Year, so as to get the full tax benefit (depreciation). Haha

 

It is significantly more productive than the HP ever was, and my only issues with it so far:

 

1) Is that it effectively requires space to walk around the device to service

2) I can't place it up against the wall, as mylar prints are forced out the back (instead of coming out on the tray/rack up top) so a 'table' is needed for the mylar prints to come out on

3) Last but biggest change (for us) is no longer printing from Acrobat instead using their Publish Select app, as the same plot options/settings are not exposed to the Acrobat/System printer Properties that are available from Publish Select

 

All worthwhile changes, given the increased print productivity, but a change nonetheless. 

 

 

Cheers



"How we think determines what we do, and what we do determines what we get."

Message 19 of 23
pendean
in reply to: BlackBox_

Floor space requirements are always a deal breaker for some folks: thanks for sharing.
Message 20 of 23
chris.kershaw
in reply to: jimk

Depending on what volume you use but have a look at the HP Pagewide range we have 3 x XL4000 in different offices very fast and high quality 

Can't find what you're looking for? Ask the community or share your knowledge.

Post to forums  

Administrator Productivity


Autodesk Design & Make Report