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*Dustin
Message 31 of 83 (1,436 Views)

Re: I hate Revit

03-29-2010 10:01 AM in reply to: sbsaint
go to YouTube.com and do a search for revit 2010 and watch training videos
people have posted. Buy a book just a few good ones are paul aubins
mastering revit architecture 2010 and greg demchak mastering revit
architecture 2010. Check out the autodesk tutorials
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=14248298

Also there are resellers and trainers who can do training remotely with no
need to travel. I'm sure when you learned autocad or autocad architecture
you didn't pick it up in a few months and become a master at it. With revit
it will take time before you get good with it. I've read and heard people
say it takes about a year before you start becoming profitable with it.

If your main problem is with the UI changes from 2009 to 2010, then get over
it. Auotdesk has an agreement with microsoft. Both have decided to use a
ribbon interface and that is the way it will be for many release to come.
Remember this is a user supported forum and people that work for autodesk
rarely visit here and post.

wrote in message news:6362697@discussion.autodesk.com...
So then why dont you train me, and pay my $2400 round trip ticket to go get
training. This product is costing more money than the time its supposed to
save.
*Expert Elite*
dgorsman
Posts: 5,226
Registered: ‎10-12-2006
Message 32 of 83 (1,436 Views)

Re: I hate Revit

03-29-2010 02:29 PM in reply to: sbsaint
I have my doubts as to whether such a complex, complete, and flexible program could be arrived at through traditional low cost open source means. Those with the money to properly manage such development want a return in their investment resulting in the high prices you want to avoid; those without the deep pockets don't have the resources (time and/or money) to properly manage the development to get the clean, organized results.

Keep in mind the automation behind the scenes which deals with a lot of the "I" in BIM - that automation dictates the work flow that must be followed. There are always concious decisions to sacrifice potential work flow options in order to support the automation. If the freedom of work flow was allowed in certain areas then the automation would be either massive and bulky (if not outright uncodeable), leaving the end user with a bloated piece of software or manually managing the data.

I really think you may have the wrong tool for the jobs you are working on, and something much more lightweight would be appropriate.
----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
Adopt. Adapt. Overcome. Or be overcome.
A good question will be halfway to a good answer.


*Matt Stachoni
Message 33 of 83 (1,436 Views)

Re: I hate Revit

03-29-2010 04:40 PM in reply to: sbsaint
Tell you what.

I know Revit, and you do not. You live in paradise, and I do not. You fly out
here, and come to work for my company, who will train you for free. I'll fly out
to your island paradise and use Revit on whatever grass hut designs are
required.

Matt
matt@stachoni.com

On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:01:42 -0700, sbsaint <> wrote:

>No I havent had any Revit training as we live on an island in the south pacific. I have only been through the tutorial a dozen time which is poorly written i might add. (should I be surprised? it instructs you to find menus as if you already knew where they all are) Although you would think that 15years of doing architecture and 3D my experience would amount to something in Revit, instead it amounts to frustration and me constantly asking myself "now why did they decide to do it that way?" $5k peice of software then you need to spend more money to get training. I can tell you with the amount of share ware developers in the world these days giving thier software away for free, overpriced high learning curved platforms like Revit should have alot more brains put into the software and alot less demands of the the users.
>
>
>I know when I start my own firm, Revit will not be a part of it.
>
>Edited by: sbsaint on Mar 29, 2010 1:59 AM
*The Dark Princess
Message 34 of 83 (1,436 Views)

Re: I hate Revit

03-29-2010 09:33 PM in reply to: sbsaint
I'm beginning to know revit, had formal training, worked on families -
office templates etc and I'm not enamored of the interface and the limited
control one has over it. I'm starting to like the ribbon for revit - it is
simple, and clean and doesn't have too much clutter.

but other areas could be easily improved - these use of customizable
floating palettes with auto-hide, graphics, and ctrl key toggling would be
great for families

as a programmer I can see a lot of potential improvement.

I would also love to see the flexibility of a native scripting language
that would allow users the ability to really take control of the interface
and the data without having to wade through c$.net and a complicated api.


--
TDP

First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

The Doctor
"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
news:6363074@discussion.autodesk.com...
Tell you what.

I know Revit, and you do not. You live in paradise, and I do not. You fly
out
here, and come to work for my company, who will train you for free. I'll fly
out
to your island paradise and use Revit on whatever grass hut designs are
required.

Matt
matt@stachoni.com

On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:01:42 -0700, sbsaint <> wrote:

>No I havent had any Revit training as we live on an island in the south
>pacific. I have only been through the tutorial a dozen time which is poorly
>written i might add. (should I be surprised? it instructs you to find
>menus as if you already knew where they all are) Although you would think
>that 15years of doing architecture and 3D my experience would amount to
>something in Revit, instead it amounts to frustration and me constantly
>asking myself "now why did they decide to do it that way?" $5k peice of
>software then you need to spend more money to get training. I can tell you
>with the amount of share ware developers in the world these days giving
>thier software away for free, overpriced high learning curved platforms
>like Revit should have alot more brains put into the software and alot less
>demands of the the users.
>
>
>I know when I start my own firm, Revit will not be a part of it.
>
>Edited by: sbsaint on Mar 29, 2010 1:59 AM
*Bobby C. Jones
Message 35 of 83 (1,436 Views)

Re: I hate Revit

03-30-2010 09:19 AM in reply to: sbsaint
> I would also love to see the flexibility of a native scripting language
> that would allow users the ability to really take control of the interface
> and the data without having to wade through c$.net and a complicated api.

Hey TDP,
Would you want to have a choice of languages, or would you be content with
someone else choosing one and providing it? If you could choose a language,
what would it be? Would you expect an IDE to be built into Revit, or would
you prefer to choose your own external editor? Would you pay for scripting
language support that you could add on to Revit?

--
Bobby C. Jones
http://bobbycjones.spaces.live.com
*Expert Elite*
Alfredo_Medina
Posts: 2,819
Registered: ‎06-11-2009
Message 36 of 83 (1,436 Views)

Re: I hate Revit

03-30-2010 09:41 AM in reply to: sbsaint
Hey, Dave said that the fact that you live in a very far island in the Pacific is not an excuse for not finding training. If you can connect to this newsgroup, you can connect to online classes, too. So, you have no need to reply to Dave with that attitude. You are behind in news if you think you have to fly these days to get training.

sbsaint wrote:

> So then why dont you train me, and pay my $2400 round trip ticket to go get training.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Planta1 Revit Online Consulting | info@planta1.com | my Twitter | The Planta1 Blog
Distinguished Contributor
paul.ashley
Posts: 597
Registered: ‎10-20-2003
Message 37 of 83 (1,436 Views)

Re: I hate Revit

03-31-2010 10:16 AM in reply to: sbsaint
Re: "It seems like Autodesk didnt pay attention to any of that when they made Revit."

Programmers from Pro-Engineer created Revit, not Autodesk, and that, along with the totally different paradigm between Revit and AutoCAD perhaps contributed to the interface issue. I agree that the UI is cumbersome in Revit and has been somewhat unfriendly from the very beginning.

It is surprising that Revit has made use of right-click context-sensitive pop-up menus so ubiquitous in AutoCAD. It would make the transition between the two programs easier. Even with Revit version 3, I was always forgetting to look up at the menu bar to see what my options were for the particular command invoked. The use of the ribbon, in both AutoCAD and Revit (something required by Autodesk's association with Microsoft ?) makes it even harder to get used to.

Comparing Revit to other 3D modeling programs may not be a fair comparison since Revit set out to not only model but to produce traditional 2d documents from the model and provide information for downstream use. 3ds, Rhino, Sketchup and FormZ don't do that and if they attempted to, it's possible their interface would have to change due the added complexity. While I haven't used software for product design and manufacturing such as Solidworks and Inventor, how would you compare those modeling interfaces with Revit?

In my small architecture world, working as I do for a company that creates prototype buildings meant to be built over and over again with small modifications, and that has a desire to track materials costs and maintain the buildings, revit makes sense. The interface may be something we just have to "get over" while we push for improvements.
Distinguished Contributor
paul.ashley
Posts: 597
Registered: ‎10-20-2003
Message 38 of 83 (1,436 Views)

Re: I hate Revit

03-31-2010 10:42 AM in reply to: sbsaint
At Autodesk University there was a presentation on using Revit for conceptual design. I wasn't able to attend but think that the focus was on getting users to realize that all of the data Revit can hold doesn't need to be entered up front. That may or may not solve you issue with the Revit UI and it's rules for object relationships, it might be a useful read. The presentation could probably be found on the AU website.
Valued Contributor
J.A.Mounteer
Posts: 100
Registered: ‎04-15-2009
Message 39 of 83 (1,436 Views)

Re: I hate Revit

03-31-2010 11:51 AM in reply to: sbsaint
The folks here are end users and CAD managers, not Autodesk Representatives. Your complaint about salespeople and not getting enough for your 5k is irrelevant in this forum. Speak with your reseller about that.

Snarkiness aside, your mistake is assuming that Autodesk made Revit and changed the way they did things "just because." They did not. As Paul pointed out they bought the software company that wrote it and have been developing it since.

Approach it from the standpoint that once again you're a complete novice and don't know half of what you think you do. The same as learning any other new software program, be it a word processor, a billing program or CAD system. You know the basics of what it's capable of and nothing beyond that.
*jg
Message 40 of 83 (1,436 Views)

Re: I hate Revit

03-31-2010 01:27 PM in reply to: sbsaint
The only person that I knew who used Revit is doing time in the Federal
Pen. Apparently he believed that the government did not have a legal
right to make him pay income tax, and that the court where he was tried
had no jurisdiction. Maybe not, but it didn't stop them from locking him
up. Similarly if you don't like Revit, it won't force Autodesk to change
it or to stop producing it just to satisfy one disenchanted user.

No software is perfect, no computer is perfect, no user is perfect. Add
these up and you realize that you need to learn that improve what is
within your power such as your skills.

On 3/31/2010 2:51 PM, J.A.Mounteer wrote:
> The folks here are end users and CAD managers, not Autodesk Representatives. Your complaint about salespeople and not getting enough for your 5k is irrelevant in this forum. Speak with your reseller about that.
>
> Snarkiness aside, your mistake is assuming that Autodesk made Revit and changed the way they did things "just because." They did not. As Paul pointed out they bought the software company that wrote it and have been developing it since.
>
> Approach it from the standpoint that once again you're a complete novice and don't know half of what you think you do. The same as learning any other new software program, be it a word processor, a billing program or CAD system. You know the basics of what it's capable of and nothing beyond that.
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