CAD Managers

[#1]

Ive been required to learn Revit, Ive been at it for 6 months now, I started on a trial version of 2009 then my company purchased 2010 and they changed so much in the two releases that I had to learn where everything was all over again, many for the worst. I find myself using other programs to model components in order to avoid the labourious and impractical procedures in Revit.

Using Revit to draft and model is like driving a car using a boatload of of push buttons rather than a steering wheel.

Ive been using 3D programs since 1995, starting with FormZ and have been using AutoCad since 2000. I think that Revit is a terrible modeler and a mediocre drafting tool. I admit that it does alot, but I have to jump through the hoops and mindset of a team of programmers who think this is the practical approach of what creating architecture should be, If this is a program that screams design, then Id rather go back to a leadholder and a Mayline. The program is NOT intuitive, and instead of me VISUALLY creating a building component with numerical parameters, Revit seems to operate in the reverse manner. Im constantly battling the Revit Gustapo dialog box that says something to the effect that my model is an illegal operation. Ever try to do a 2 path sweep? FormZ had this nailed 15 years ago, and I could easily draw any profile and the computer would do the calculations for me. Revit seems to make you work harder and not the other way around.

The interface sucks, edit parameter controls buried deep within two to three dialogue boxes. The steering wheel is a joke. Why would you make a virtual controller to replace something that your mouse already does? Its like going back to the time before they invented the joystick, and Im using the keyboard to play pac-man.

My bottom line, Revit is a chore to use, It doesnt think for you, it makes you do all the thinking. Its not fun to use at all, and it takes the wind out of your sails when trying to come up with concept designs, and has me scrambling to find a pencil. Edited by: sbsaint on Mar 24, 2010 10:53 PM

[#2]

You have to compare apples to apples. You can't compare AutoCAD, FormZ or
any other 3d modeling program with Revit since they're not BIM.

The question really is:
Are there any other BIM applications out there that are easier to use than
Revit, ie: Bentley Architecture or ArchiCAD or VectorWorks?

http://www.cad-addict.com/2010/03/list-of-bim-software-providers.html

Paul

wrote in message news:6360394@discussion.autodesk.com...
Ive been required to learn Revit, Ive been at it for 6 months now, I started
on a trial version of 2009 then my company purchased 2010 and they changed
so much in the two releases that I had to learn where everything was all
over again, many for the worst. I find myself using other programs to
model components in order to avoid the labourious and impractical
procedures in Revit.

Using Revit to draft and model is like driving a car using a boatload of of
push buttons rather than a steering wheel.

Ive been using 3D programs since 1995, starting with FormZ and have been
using AutoCad since 2000. I think that Revit is a terrible modeler and a
mediocre drafting tool. I admit that it does alot, but I have to jump
through the hoops and mindset of a team of programmers who think this is
the practical approach of what creating architecture should be, If this is
a program that screams design, then Id rather go back to a leadholder and a
Mayline. The program is NOT intuitive, and instead of me VISUALLY
creating a building component with numerical parameters, Revit seems to
operate in the reverse manner. Im constantly battling the Revit Gustapo
dialog box that says something to the effect that my model is an illegal
operation. Ever try to do a 2 path sweep? FormZ had this nailed 15 years
ago, and I could easily draw any profile and the computer would do the
calculations for me. Revit seems to make you work harder and not the other
way around.

The interface sucks, edit parameter controls buried deep within two to
three dialogue boxes. The steering wheel is a joke. Why would you make a
virtual controller to replace something that your mouse already does? Its
like going back to the time before they invented the joystick, and Im using
the keyboard to play pac-man.

My bottom line, Revit is a chore to use, It doesnt think for you, it makes
you do all the thinking. Its not fun to use at all, and it takes the wind
out of your sails when trying to come up with concept designs, and has me
scrambling to find a pencil.

Edited by: sbsaint on Mar 24, 2010 10:53 PM

[#3]

Point taken, but it sounds like you are saying that BIM is supposed to be overcomplicated and laborious? If BIM requires me to think like a sweets catalog, then Id rather use Autocad and go back to the way I was doing all this before. My whole arguement about Revit is how it hasnt made my life any easier, in fact its made my job less enjoyable. Autodesk's lack of ergonomics of its UI, and the methodology for commands that have already been laid out before in other 2D/3D programs prior to Revit. This product has made it dreadful for me to come into work and to practice architecture for my current firm.


I absolutely hate the steering wheel tool. and the method for navigating in 3D mode. I can compare it to playing a race car game and using my mouse to control an on screen virtual steering wheel in order to drive the car, when I should really just be using the mouse. how clumbsy is that? The fact that Revit makes me edit almost everything from a 2D projection view doesnt make any sense to me at all. Its like a 2.5D program. When you launch the program youre by default starring at a 2D view, which really makes me feel like im not in an advanced state of design, nor a peice of software that is on the cutting edge of it. The software does alot of stuff, dont get me wrong, but it really feels like theyve taken the existing 2D cad programs and attached all these commands and features and tools and called it BIM, There are so many tools in Revit that just do one thing, i.e. "wall sweep" when other programs have one tool that does so many things, and these can be defined by the users imagination and not by the imagination of the programmers and developers.


I have two words that describe my frustration over Revit.... Sketch Up. Its only a matter of time before someone writes a library of ruby scripts that will do everything Revit does poorly. And wont cost an arm and a leg to purchase.

[#4]

the interface sucks
the family editing/creation is obtuse and scrolly
it takes 50 steps to accomplish one thing.


--
TDP

First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

The Doctor
wrote in message news:6360394@discussion.autodesk.com...
Ive been required to learn Revit, Ive been at it for 6 months now, I started
on a trial version of 2009 then my company purchased 2010 and they changed
so much in the two releases that I had to learn where everything was all
over again, many for the worst. I find myself using other programs to
model components in order to avoid the labourious and impractical
procedures in Revit.

Using Revit to draft and model is like driving a car using a boatload of of
push buttons rather than a steering wheel.

Ive been using 3D programs since 1995, starting with FormZ and have been
using AutoCad since 2000. I think that Revit is a terrible modeler and a
mediocre drafting tool. I admit that it does alot, but I have to jump
through the hoops and mindset of a team of programmers who think this is
the practical approach of what creating architecture should be, If this is
a program that screams design, then Id rather go back to a leadholder and a
Mayline. The program is NOT intuitive, and instead of me VISUALLY
creating a building component with numerical parameters, Revit seems to
operate in the reverse manner. Im constantly battling the Revit Gustapo
dialog box that says something to the effect that my model is an illegal
operation. Ever try to do a 2 path sweep? FormZ had this nailed 15 years
ago, and I could easily draw any profile and the computer would do the
calculations for me. Revit seems to make you work harder and not the other
way around.

The interface sucks, edit parameter controls buried deep within two to
three dialogue boxes. The steering wheel is a joke. Why would you make a
virtual controller to replace something that your mouse already does? Its
like going back to the time before they invented the joystick, and Im using
the keyboard to play pac-man.

My bottom line, Revit is a chore to use, It doesnt think for you, it makes
you do all the thinking. Its not fun to use at all, and it takes the wind
out of your sails when trying to come up with concept designs, and has me
scrambling to find a pencil.

Edited by: sbsaint on Mar 24, 2010 10:53 PM

[#5]

I love Revit. As any other program, it has some issues that can be improved as time passes by, but I find myself not having used my AutoCAD in a long time, ever since I understood how to use Revit. I keep my copy of AutoCAD Architecture in my computer just because I like the Detail Component Manager. But the more I use and learn and understand BIM and Revit, the less I use AutoCAD, believe me; and I was an expert user, even an instructor of AutoCAD and Architectural Desktop for many years. Now Revit is my choice of tool for architectural work. No doubt about it.

Alfredo Medina
info@planta1.com

[#6]

"A+P" wrote
> they're not BIM

But then, what is?

[#7]

Ive used many many programs for both drafting and modeling, and after using so many you begin to see similarities of what works best for intuitive UI and workflow. It seems like Autodesk didnt pay attention to any of that when they made Revit.

The steering wheel is crap, they shouldve made it look like a computer mouse so that I could use my mouse to control the virtual mouse making it more rendundant than it already is, whatever team came up with that aspect of the program failed miserably. Even Cinema 4D can do that better.

If you read my above posts, the interface sucks. And now Ive been forced to use it at work because of the Autodesk reliance we have.
Its not enjoyable to use period. I dont know how anyone could actually love this program. perhaps youve only used AutoCAD and only have one platform to compare it to. Ive used so many for so many different purposes and this one to me is a step backwards in an attempt to be more productive. Knowing that there are other programs that allow me to edit my model in 3D makes using Revit frustrating, because the program makes you adhere to what the rules are and not what is sensible and already possible in other programs.

Revit has shoved an entire generation of operators to think within the Revit box. If you think thats not true, then try building a wall thats spherical. This program really tries to dumb you down to building things that are bought off the shelf. This program was designed by the Borg..."You will be assimilated..l.."You must compy....Resistence is futile"

[#8]

All the other points aside, there are a number of people in this
industry who have developed carpal tunnel syndrome and can no longer use
a regular mouse. Even though I only use it for 0.5% of my navigation,
the steering wheel does have some useful features beyond the standard 3D
Orbit & Pan.

On 3/24/2010 3:53 PM, sbsaint wrote:
> The steering wheel is a joke. Why would you make a virtual controller to replace something that your mouse already does?
>

--
Anthony Mason
http://dailyoccurrence.wordpress.com/

[#9]

Good question.

It's a process - and theoretically it can be accomplished with just about
anything that can describe a building graphically and with embedded
information.

I saw it being done before Autodesk invented the acronym "BIM", with AutoCAD
R12, Solidworks, Excel, Access, Navisworks and a whole host of other
stuff...

But Revit is a product that is more "BIM oriented" than most.

"Joe Blizzard" wrote in message
news:6360825@discussion.autodesk.com...
> "A+P" wrote
>> they're not BIM
>
> But then, what is?

[#10]

Have you ever stepped back and tried to figure out what it is about your
experience that is so different than the thousands of others who would argue
with you about this, and who are successfully putting out projects with
Revit and who wouldn't dream of using anything else?

I once had an architect tell me that "Revit cannot be used to generate
architectural projects". Sitting next to him was another architect who had
been using Revit exclusively for a couple of years with a barely suppressed
smile on his face, the hidden meaning of which was pretty clear to me...



"sbsaint" wrote in message news:6360394@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Ive been required to learn Revit, Ive been at it for 6 months now, I
> started on a trial version of 2009 then my company purchased 2010 and they
> changed so much in the two releases that I had to learn where everything
> was all over again, many for the worst. I find myself using other
> programs to model components in order to avoid the labourious and
> impractical procedures in Revit.
>
> Using Revit to draft and model is like driving a car using a boatload of
> of push buttons rather than a steering wheel.
>
> Ive been using 3D programs since 1995, starting with FormZ and have been
> using AutoCad since 2000. I think that Revit is a terrible modeler and a
> mediocre drafting tool. I admit that it does alot, but I have to jump
> through the hoops and mindset of a team of programmers who think this is
> the practical approach of what creating architecture should be, If this
> is a program that screams design, then Id rather go back to a leadholder
> and a Mayline. The program is NOT intuitive, and instead of me
> VISUALLY creating a building component with numerical parameters, Revit
> seems to operate in the reverse manner. Im constantly battling the Revit
> Gustapo dialog box that says something to the effect that my model is an
> illegal operation. Ever try to do a 2 path sweep? FormZ had this nailed
> 15 years ago, and I could easily draw any profile and the computer would
> do the calculations for me. Revit seems to make you work harder and not
> the other way around.
>
> The interface sucks, edit parameter controls buried deep within two to
> three dialogue boxes. The steering wheel is a joke. Why would you make a
> virtual controller to replace something that your mouse already does? Its
> like going back to the time before they invented the joystick, and Im
> using the keyboard to play pac-man.
>
> My bottom line, Revit is a chore to use, It doesnt think for you, it makes
> you do all the thinking. Its not fun to use at all, and it takes the wind
> out of your sails when trying to come up with concept designs, and has me
> scrambling to find a pencil.
>
> Edited by: sbsaint on Mar 24, 2010 10:53 PM