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*Dave Drahn
Message 11 of 17 (270 Views)

Re: Good Forum for Instructors

03-17-2010 08:30 AM in reply to: burgener
They make pretty good walls, too. I agree with David K's statement:
"I have a hard time understanding the mindset of people who want to gut
functionality from the software because they personally don't see the need
for it."

We become experts at customizing and using CAD to get done what we need to
do, then blindly dis anyone who relies on functionality we seldom or never
use.

Have a civil guy using customized vanilla acad/LDT/C3D for 10 years get a
new job doing P&IDs for a wastewater treatment plant design group. He'll
learn some 'new' commands and procedures pretty quickly.


"Jerry Runnels" wrote in message
news:6355853@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Mlines make good slots.
>
> wrote in message news:6355184@discussion.autodesk.com...
> David
>
> You are the first person I have known of that actually uses the Group
> command. The other person was... some years ago, when I made the same
> comment about this command in these newsgroups. Probably it was you back
> then, too? :smileyhappy:
> As of Mlines and Toolpac, now that you mention them together, ask Terry W.
> Dotson his opinion about Mlines, he would tell you: "Mlines are useless!"
> :-)
>
> Alfredo
*Terry W. Dotson
Message 12 of 17 (270 Views)

Re: Good Forum for Instructors

03-17-2010 09:48 AM in reply to: burgener
On 3/15/2010 11:32 PM, Alfredo_Medina wrote:

> ask Terry W. Dotson his opinion about Mlines, he would
> tell you: "Mlines are useless!" :-)

He would also say that they were added to match a marketing bullet point
with MicroStation as in "Yes we've got multilines". They have not been
improved since implemented and still can't contain arcs, etc. Of course
neither than the elder 3dPolylines.

How much ribbon would you give up for that functionality?

Terry
--
Never start any job without the right tools!
AutoCAD Add-on Tools at http://www.dotsoft.com
*Expert Elite*
Alfredo_Medina
Posts: 2,813
Registered: ‎06-11-2009
Message 13 of 17 (270 Views)

Re: Good Forum for Instructors

03-17-2010 11:11 AM in reply to: burgener
Dave, (and Dave K.)

Is it not curious that the two users who have written in defense of the Group command use it with the aid of custom routines to make it work easier? Don't you see an issue with "usability" or "friendliness" in this not-so-popular command?
In other programs, grouping objects is 1) select, 2) group, and you're done. But in AutoCAD it could Not be simple, it had to be a little more... eh... how do I say...'special'; ... and no, I don´t want to eliminate any commands, how could I? Since the subject of this thread was whether we teach some commands or not, I am just commenting on the commands which don't make it into my list of Level 1 or Level 2 AutoCAD class, after including some more essential or useful commands, that is all.

Alfredo Medina
info@planta1.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Planta1 Revit Online Consulting | info@planta1.com | my Twitter | The Planta1 Blog
*Expert Elite*
Alfredo_Medina
Posts: 2,813
Registered: ‎06-11-2009
Message 14 of 17 (270 Views)

Re: Good Forum for Instructors

03-17-2010 11:12 AM in reply to: burgener
Hey, Terry, nice to see you here!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Planta1 Revit Online Consulting | info@planta1.com | my Twitter | The Planta1 Blog
*David Kozina
Message 15 of 17 (270 Views)

Re: Good Forum for Instructors

03-17-2010 02:09 PM in reply to: burgener
Alfredo,

I feel very sorry for *anyone* that tries/has to use AutoCAD OOTB.

I suppose the last time I had to was R13, when I first started using the
program (and mlines, too, as a matter of fact). (Or when I visited someone
in their non-customized office .)

The beauty of the software is that one should't be forced to do that. As it
turns out, I don't use many of the command dialogs in a typical workday.
Why flounder about in a dialog when it can be skipped altogether via
automation? And in some cases, I get more mileage out of the command line
version of a command than its dialog.

Just because a command is 'not popular' doesn't mean it's worthless.
Whether or not you teach certain commands, like I said, is your cookie.
I'm glad I know about groups, though, since I've got some good uses for
them.

And, with respects to Autodesk - perhaps they have deliberately left certain
commands (mlines, say) 'in a sort of primordial state' so as to not draw
attention away from 'solutions' found in their other vertical products that
they would like to promote (at least for a time)? Not saying that's the
case - but one does wonder.

How 'bout PEDIT? Do you like that 'lil gem of a command? I find it very
fun to watch how people use that command (but not when they try to skip it
by stacking vertex grip on top of grip .)

Just some additional thoughts, fwtw.

David Kozina


wrote in message news:6356298@discussion.autodesk.com...
Dave, (and Dave K.)

Is it not curious that the two users who have written in defense of the
Group command use it with the aid of custom routines to make it work easier?
Don't you see an issue with "usability" or "friendliness" in this
not-so-popular command?
In other programs, grouping objects is 1) select, 2) group, and you're done.
But in AutoCAD it could Not be simple, it had to be a little more... eh...
how do I say...'special'; ... and no, I don´t want to eliminate any
commands, how could I? Since the subject of this thread was whether we teach
some commands or not, I am just commenting on the commands which don't make
it into my list of Level 1 or Level 2 AutoCAD class, after including some
more essential or useful commands, that is all.

Alfredo Medina
info@planta1.com
*Dave Drahn
Message 16 of 17 (270 Views)

Re: Good Forum for Instructors

03-17-2010 02:18 PM in reply to: burgener
True enough. I think they'd be worth a brief mention though, with your
explanation, and let those people who move on to customization know that
they can be very useful - even if adesk has let them slip onto the back
burners. Same with all that stuff - DDVPOINT, ASVIEWER, SSX, point filters,
snap tracking, use of parallel to and from snaps. Many of my guys have been
using for 5-10 yrs here are surprised to see those when they come up. And
that always surprises me (maybe a testament to my poor teaching agenda).


"Alfredo_Medina" wrote in message news:6356298@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Dave, (and Dave K.)
>
> Is it not curious that the two users who have written in defense of the
> Group command use it with the aid of custom routines to make it work
> easier? Don't you see an issue with "usability" or "friendliness" in this
> not-so-popular command?
> In other programs, grouping objects is 1) select, 2) group, and you're
> done. But in AutoCAD it could Not be simple, it had to be a little more...
> eh... how do I say...'special'; ... and no, I don´t want to eliminate any
> commands, how could I? Since the subject of this thread was whether we
> teach some commands or not, I am just commenting on the commands which
> don't make it into my list of Level 1 or Level 2 AutoCAD class, after
> including some more essential or useful commands, that is all.
>
> Alfredo Medina
> info@planta1.com
*Expert Elite*
Alfredo_Medina
Posts: 2,813
Registered: ‎06-11-2009
Message 17 of 17 (270 Views)

Re: Good Forum for Instructors

03-17-2010 08:23 PM in reply to: burgener
Hey, David K.
I remember we met briefly at AU 2002 in Las Vegas. Do you remember? you gave me your business card.

About PEDIT: for a long time it remained as the only solution for putting together a bunch of plines or lines. I think it is the only way, even though Adesk added the old "glue" command, which I believe came from Softdesk, into plain vanilla AutoCAD. I still remember that stupid question in the PEDIT command that goes something like "this segment is not a polyline, would you like to convert into a polyline?" Duh!! YES, dear programmer, since I want to join a bunch of lines into a single entity I don't care if you need to convert the individual segments into polylines entities first, please do it. ...Some years later, Autodesk included in its list of "improvements" a new variable (as if we didn't have enough) to get rid of that silly question. Ah...I'm glad I am not using AutoCAD now as I had to, some time ago.

Alfredo Medina
info@planta1.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Planta1 Revit Online Consulting | info@planta1.com | my Twitter | The Planta1 Blog

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