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File ownership question

15 REPLIES 15
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Message 1 of 16
garyljohnson
1524 Views, 15 Replies

File ownership question

This may be the wrong place to ask this question but, I see that there are a couple other questions about ‘ownership’ so I am going to at least start it here and see where it goes.

For the last 15 years, I have been contracting with a company to provide drawings with different levels of details depending on his needs at the time.
I have always given him hard copies of the drawings and/or PDF files. Once in a while I would give (when asked) a dwg file to pass on to Engineering Firms to use in their plan sets.
I [my company] is the owner of the License of the software [both CAD software and non-CAD software] and all the hardware etc.
I started off using AutoCAD and I am now using Inventor.

Well, now after 15 years, the owner of the company has decided to purchase his own license for Inventor and hire kid to do the work for about 1/3 of  what he is paying me.
He is also wanting me to turn over all of my AutoCAD and Inventor Drawing files.

Here is my question! Who legally owns the AutoCAD/Inventor files? There is a mix of Custom made files for his products/assemblies, some from my own libraries, and some from the Inventor supplied ‘Content Center Files’.
I understand and have no problem with the fact that ‘HE’ owns the intellectual content of the drawings. But who actually owns the files used to create the hardcopy and PDF drawings?

Any Ideas?

Thanks

Gary J

15 REPLIES 15
Message 2 of 16

Here is my question! Who legally owns the AutoCAD/Inventor files?

 

this is typically laid down in the contract between Client and Consultant.

These days it is typical for the client to stipulate the delivery of native electronic files (i.e. DWG).

 

we now live in an world where people share electonic data on a daily basis, embrace the benefits of this world. Yes it has negatives but it has far more benefits. For example how many times have you searched the web for a free block to use? or for free information?

 

what goes around comes around, just ask the US defence department....:-)

Message 3 of 16
pendean
in reply to: garyljohnson

Do you have a contract that spells it out?

Do you have a contract, in writing, that indicates who owns what?

Do you have a written contract?

 

All questions for you 'legal' help if you have none of the above to fall back on. No simple (or cheap) answer.

Message 4 of 16
garyljohnson
in reply to: pendean

My contracts have always stated that I would be required to purchase and maintain the need software and all hardware.

It has never (intil now - I am adding this clause now) addressed the ownership of the actural CAD files.

 

Gary J

Message 5 of 16

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap2.pdf

 

Section 201 of the Copyright Law (link above) states a "work for hire" (which this sounds like this is) makes the owner the person requesting the work, not the person who actually did the drawings.  If it is not spelled out in your contract then they hired you and paid you to make those specific documents for them and therefore, regardless of media type, they own it.

 

This is just one humble CAD Mgr's opinion as I am not a lawyer....otherwise, this would probably be worth more than my 2 cents.

Tony Leggieri
Gutschick, Little & Weber, P.A. (GLW)
CADD Manager
Civil 3D 2023.2.1
Windows 10
Message 6 of 16

 

Thank you,

 

I have read this. However, I understand it to refer to the "Copyright" which would be the content of the drawings and not necessarily the files themselves. Or am I reading this ALL wrong?

 

Gary J

Message 7 of 16
pendean
in reply to: garyljohnson

IMHO it's time to talk to a legal professional about your case.

Message 8 of 16
dgorsman
in reply to: pendean

Virtual courtroom test: if you would argue this in front of a judge, what would they think of "I read ____ on the internet"?  For legal advice, get an actual lawyer.  And bring the other guy in on it - most people are willing to work things out amicably providing there is a little "give" along with the "get" for each party.

 

While the concept of "universal sharing" is a nize warm fuzzy one it only holds up if everybody contributes.  If only a couple contribute and everybody else sponges off whats posted without contributing themselves then thats not really sharing.

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 9 of 16
ACADuser
in reply to: garyljohnson

Why not explode everything (otho views/no 3d stuff) including text to dumb lines, change everything to layer 0, purge the drawing then save, finally deliver to the customer and be done with it ?

ACADuser
Civil 3D 2018, Raster Design 2018
Windows 7 Enterprise
Dell Precision 5810 Workstation
Intel Xeon E5-1630 v3 @ 3.70GHz
32GB RAM, NVIDIA Quadro K2200 4 GB GDDR5
DUAL 27" Dell UltraSharp U2713HM
Message 10 of 16
Charles_Shade
in reply to: ACADuser

I'll go along with exploding everything if it comes to that. Dimensions especially suck when the've been blown apart.

 

Residential Design

 

Have only had the question asked by builders once or twice and I've generally given them the plan. My thought on this is that the lines that make the room or the elevation are the property of the purchaser because this is the configuration of these lines that they asked for. They are also trusting me that I do not sell their plan to a third party and I would be foolish to put myself into that bind. But, the hatches (all custom), toilets, windows (plan and elevation), building sections, and the like are all mine as I developed them not for the client but to fulfill my requirement to meet the intent of the building code and plan "look".

 

These things I will not give up easily since they are what make my plan unique. This is especially true of some of the Dynamic Blocks I have. Too much sweat in a few of them.

Message 11 of 16
jggerth1
in reply to: garyljohnson

You can explode everything, and do everything feasible to give them a useless drawing.... IF, and IMHO that's a huge IF, you are choosing to never do any work for that organization again, and are willing to take a hit to your professional reputation, and quite possibly eliminate future potential sources of revenue.  

 

People talk, and if one of your clients is massivley unhappy, and feels that you deliberately and maliciously sabotaged your deliverables (remember on work-for-hire it's actually their design files unless otherwise called out in the contract)  seems quite likeley that such an opinion may get around to other existing and potential future clients.

 

 

Message 12 of 16
TonyLeggieri3279
in reply to: jggerth1

Very true.  I have had to defend other firms to our Partners and clients by explaining that sometimes things are the way they are in a CAD file because they have been imported from Microstation or exported down to an earlier version (hence auto exploding certain objects).  But needless to say they were not too happy, and, yes, people do talk.

 

On the flip side, if a client is pulling a job and asking you to send it to another firm, odds are you may not be working with them in the future anyway! Smiley Wink

Tony Leggieri
Gutschick, Little & Weber, P.A. (GLW)
CADD Manager
Civil 3D 2023.2.1
Windows 10
Message 13 of 16

He is just bringing in a kid that he will be paying something like $14 hr.

I have been renting an office from him and I am going to be moving out tomorrow.

I found out today, that he has not even bought the software or computer for the kid yet so I have a feeling I'll be working from my home office for a while...  lol...

No way am I going to screw with him by doing anything to the files... I may be crazy but I'm not stupid.

 

 

Message 14 of 16

Well hopefully the kid will take a looooooong while to get up to speed.

 

$14 per hour plus labor burden, overhead, employee headaches, and he lost a rental income. Mmm, Mmm, Mmm, what a bargain!

Message 15 of 16
J.A.Mounteer
in reply to: garyljohnson

The first step is to get some professional legal help because it wasn't delineated in your original contract.  If you're just looking for opinions, here's mine.

 

The electronic files that relate to his IP/ designs are his.  The libraries and other custom content (including the title block of your firm) and any macros or program customizations are wholly your own and you can choose to transfer them to him or not.  I'd opt for not on those since they reflect work beyond what you were originally contracted for.

 

While it's disappointing that he's choosing to end your business relationship after 15 years, these things happen. It's business, not personal, after all, and he thinks he can get a better deal doing things this way.   Be professional about it, offer to continue to work on drawings in the future if this doesn't work out for him and wish him luck.  He'll need it and you know that. That poor $14/hr kid.

 

For your future contracts take a look at the AIA's Best Practices document on Electronic Data Transfer. It may be addressing the practice of Architecture itself but that doesn't mean it can't be useful to you. It gives some simple language you and your consil can look at modifying and incorporating in your contracts in the future.  It also gives a nice overview of things you might not have considered, like transfering the files doesn't mean giving up all rights to them yourself.

 

http://www.aia.org/aiaucmp/groups/ek_members/documents/pdf/aiap016621.pdf

 

 

Message 16 of 16

he is just doing what Nike, Coco Cola and the rest of Corporate America does - screwing people for as much as they can.

He is trying to get you to drop your rates because he is getting screwed by his American bank who are screwing themselves.....:-)

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