Drawings Infected w/ AEC Objects

[OwenWhitehouse]

I took over as CAD manager a while back, and now that I have my legs under me here, I have discovered a rampant issue that is slowing some work processes to a crawl. The issue is drawings that are full of AEC objects (Civil, Architecture and MEP) that do not need them. My understanding of this issue is limited, and I need to become better informed.

The problem is, the 'infected' drawings have file sizes that are from 50% to 1000% too big. There are some other side effects, too, like being unable to use the Partial Open feature.

Short of going to each PC and removing the object enablers, how can I prevent the appearance of the rogue objects? I have detached offending XREFs, WBLOCKed myself silly, and used the AECTOACAD command, and this works, but it is really a pain in the neck. And what about Civil drawings with MEP objects? Will WBLOCK in C3D take care of the MEP & Arch. objects? AECTOACAD would ruin them, wouldn't it?

I'd also like some advice on how to be more pro-active in preventing this from occurring. I can understand needing to reference another discipline's models during design work. I'm tired of seeing plotting issues and frequent crashes due to proxy objects that forced their way into a drawing.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Anonymous]

Rogue. Infected. Very dramatic words for something simple: your files
contain these custom AEC objects as blocks or other items.

Are your PCs of low end that you see a performance hit? Unless you want to
personally review each block in each file now and in the future before it is
used, and never ever trade files or content with any outside office, I would
not worry so much about it. There is no loss of performance, all you see is
information on the content of the file.

AEC objects will come into files whenever anything other than plain AutoCAD
or LT is used to create content, or content from those verticals is used in
AutoCAD. Nature of the product line.

--
Dean Saadallah
http://LTisACAD.blogspot.com
--

[Anonymous]

Autodesk have a free batch utility to purge all unreferenced regapp IDs which might help - it can be downloaded from here.

http://subscription.autodesk.com/sp/servlet/item?siteID=11564774&id=12152903

you could also incorporate the purge command into your save / exit command so that all files get purged of unreferenced regapp IDs each time they are saved.

note purge all does not purge unreferenced regapp IDs you need to run -pu r * n

[OwenWhitehouse]

Your commentary on my word selection notwithstanding, I had hoped to gain some insight on what to do about the 'infection'. I chose that word because of the way that we use XREFs around here. Even if the XREF is detached from the drawing, we are seeing the proxy object warnings, and partial open is disabled. If one drawing file has these objects in it, it will pass them on to any drawing that it is referenced into. Then that one will pass them on to other drawings, hence the 'infection'. I know how to get the AEC objects out, I'm just wondering why they stay there when the offending XREF is gone. I'm not sure if this 'infection' scenario is normal, either.

There is a performance hit, even on our CAD PCs. We use Dual-core Xeons, 4GB RAM, Quadro FX4600. I primarily see the change during file open and switching layouts. Cleaning up the AEC objects does help with these times, and cuts file sizes, sometimes dramatically.

I have noticed that the problem seems to be reduced by removing the object enablers. Some of our disciplines have requested that the OEs not be installed in order to combat this problem.

Perhaps your file sizes are so small that you consider the problem negligible? With very large files and large numbers of XREFs, this is more than an annoyance, it is a time-waster.

[Anonymous]

There is no 'infection', it is the nature of having AEC content in AutoCAD:
the AEC content is in your file, you can take it out once, but it shows back
up your content source contains these objects. An XREF can trigger loading
of AEC installed Object Enablers: it might work best for you to remove all
of them, and turn on all 'proxy' variables.

Or contract with your file originators to remove AEC content before sharing,
then implement an in-house removal process for all files received and all
files used for Xrefs and blocks.

A tip by Mark may help you out as well, as part of the file cleaning
process.

Our files and Xrefs are in the 20-30MB size range, running Vista 32bit on
3-4G non-Xenon PCs and see no performance issues. Perhaps it is time you
invested in 64bit OS and versions of AutoCAD? They are better designed for
'size' needs.

--
Dean Saadallah
http://LTisACAD.blogspot.com
--

[pcaruthers]

I agee with Dean, you shouldn't be seeing a performance issue. I suspect there is something else causing the "real" problem. Check this link out, make sure your graphics card is running a good driver. those buggers can cause all kinds of performance problems you wouldn't think would be related.

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/hc?siteID=123112&id=6711853&linkID=9240618

Paul Caruthers
Bessolo Design Group

[OwenWhitehouse]

I actually work very closely with the Nvidia driver development staff, and I can verify that in clean drawings, we have very good system performance.

Our typical model is in the 500-1600MB range. We have some that are a lot larger. We do plant/process design, so I agree totally with the 64 bit suggestion. Checking Task Manager while AutoCAD has a working file open can reveal overhead sizes of 2GB+ (yes, we use the 3GB switch).

Our IT group would like to hold off on 64 bit OS installation until Win7 releases. I am beta testing it now in the 64 bit flavor w/ AutoCAD 2010, and it flies. Seriously, it is much faster.

I'd love to universally whack the OEs....hmmm.....I have noticed that we can leave them in place for NavisWorks. Maybe we are on to something. Provided the proxies do not look too bad in AutoCAD, we may not need the OEs.

[john_ratliff]

I feel your pain!

Obviously your using a verticle(s) in the office. I have to export to AutoCAD or insert the verticle file into a clean AutoCAD file. I've noticed a 1 mb jump in file size when saving a file using 2009 and using 2008 with Civil 3d.

You might want to re-think your xref publishing from verticles or look into using the more convoluded tools Autodesk offers for file management.

[Anonymous]

I'd like to interpret your email along the lines that you would prefer clean CAD files. Files can get 'infected', bloated or rendered incompatbile in so many scenarios that I, too, would not put the blame on the AEC objects. If you do not need to modify the files you recieved and simply use them as backgrounds, AEC objects should do not harm.
Some suggestions to help you:
1. As already posted, purge the unreferenced objects. ('-PU' command.... or use the Autodesk utility.)
2. To control the proxy object windows, go to Options > Open and Save > ObjectARX applications...
3. Set XCLIPFRAME to 1 and check if any (or many) blocks are xclipped. Too many xclips have a tremendous effect on performance. Remove the xclips to speed up (but check that removing them doens't do any harm.
4. How about the anno scales? Maybe you have thousand of xref scales.... There's another Autodesk utility to purge them in a batch mode.

[OwenWhitehouse]

Thanks, everyone. Lots of good advice and ideas here. I do have one question left....

If I am working in Architecture, how do I remove embedded Civil objects, and vice versa? I don't want to hurt the intelligence of the objects that are supposed to be there.

[Anonymous]

If you do not want to downgrade the 'good' AEC objects, put only the Civil3D objects in a separate file and 'export to AutoCAD' or etransmit (with exploded AEC objects) this file.
But I am not sure if you can 'export to AutoCAD' objects of which you do not have the source software. It should be better done by the party that sent you the file.

[Anonymous]

or get the free purgeids from cadthinking.com that shows you what is infected before you try to clean things.

markdoel <>
|>Autodesk have a free batch utility to purge all unreferenced regapp IDs which might help - it can be downloaded from here.
|>
|>http://subscription.autodesk.com/sp/servlet/item?siteID=11564774&id=12152903
|>
|>you could also incorporate the purge command into your save / exit command so that all files get purged of unreferenced regapp IDs each time they are saved.
|>
|>note purge all does not purge unreferenced regapp IDs you need to run -pu r * n
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - at - hunsaker - dotcom

[Anonymous]

You are right, if you are not using the verticals, the files are infected.
Its probably not app id's, but check that.

The issue is civil3D and possibly others, fill the drawing with "style" definitions.
You need to clean your files with the Civil Batch Drawing converter - only available to map and C3D - Hahahahahah
(Autodesk providing laughing sound effects there)

I cannot tell you how many people have been caught by the bloat the verticals are causing.
Autodesk underestimated the issue, as there is not even a purge styles command.
They also do not explode the AEC objects on normal saveas or normal etransmit.
They can argue why they did this all day, but if it don't work, its broken!

And yes, the objects get exploded to normal acad entities, but it will not be worse than what you are dealing with now.

OwenWhitehouse <>
|>I took over as CAD manager a while back, and now that I have my legs under me here, I have discovered a rampant issue that is slowing some work processes to a crawl. The issue is drawings that are full of AEC objects (Civil, Architecture and MEP) that do not need them. My understanding of this issue is limited, and I need to become better informed.

The problem is, the 'infected' drawings have file sizes that are from 50% to 1000% too big. There are some other side effects, too, like being unable to use the Partial Open feature.

Short of going to each PC and removing the object enablers, how can I prevent the appearance of the rogue objects? I have detached offending XREFs, WBLOCKed myself silly, and used the AECTOACAD command, and this works, but it is really a pain in the neck. And what about Civil drawings with MEP objects? Will WBLOCK in C3D take care of the MEP & Arch. objects? AECTOACAD would ruin them, wouldn't it?

I'd also like some advice on
|>how to be more pro-active in preventing this from occurring. I can understand needing to reference another discipline's models during design work. I'm tired of seeing plotting issues and frequent crashes due to proxy objects that forced their way into a drawing.

Any help would be appreciated.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - at - hunsaker - dotcom