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*Henderson, Daryl
Message 1 of 9 (374 Views)

Digital Signature

374 Views, 8 Replies
05-13-2002 02:13 PM
Attn:
Has anyone used the Digital Signature from Point-A? How does it work with or
on your projects?

--
Daryl Henderson Designs
Architectural-Designer Consultant
4060 Pocono Court
Stone Mountain, GA 30083
*Prettyman, Charles
Message 2 of 9 (374 Views)

Re: Digital Signature

05-13-2002 10:22 PM in reply to: *Henderson, Daryl
I tested it briefly. Had the bosses gone for it, I would have liked to
implement it office wide. Basically, you sigh up with Verisign, or some
other digital signature company, and they will create a digital signature
based on your email address. You can then use the digital signature
extension to attach that signature to any drawing. Once you've done that,
if anyone ever changes the drawing, the signature gets broken.

The reason that we didn't implement it office wide comes down to an
implementation of standards issue. According to our liability insurance
broker (and my limited knowledge of liability issues leads me to agree with
this) using something like a digital signature to reduce liability is only
effective if it can be implemented 100%. Otherwise, the one and only time
you nd up in court over the question of "did someone modify this drawing"
the other side will simply say: "how do we know that they signed this one,
since they do not sign everything." Personally, I thought that signing
everything was the answer, but there are bigger battles to fight first.

Getting a digital signature from verisign is pretty easy, but there is a
fee. When I did it there was a free trial, but after 90 days, or something
like that, you will pay. Sinc eht esignature is associated with your email
addess, we would have neeed to get one signature per address, which would
add up. It's not a huge amount, but it is one more expense, and there is
some administrative overhead required to cancel accounts as people leave,
and add new accounts, etc.

Once you have the digital signature from Verisign, or whoeer, you are not
limitied to using it on drawings only, you can digitally sign anything.


"Daryl Henderson" wrote in message
news:5E8D2FA64777C1245554EA18F8A3DCA3@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Attn:
> Has anyone used the Digital Signature from Point-A? How does it work with
or
> on your projects?
>
> --
> Daryl Henderson Designs
> Architectural-Designer Consultant
> 4060 Pocono Court
> Stone Mountain, GA 30083
>
>
*Whaley, Frank
Message 3 of 9 (374 Views)

Re:

05-15-2002 02:05 AM in reply to: *Henderson, Daryl
Charles Prettyman wrote:

> According to our liability insurance broker (and my limited knowledge of
> liability issues leads me to agree with this) using something like a digital
> signature to reduce liability is only effective if it can be implemented
> 100%. Otherwise, the one and only time you nd up in court over the question
> of "did someone modify this drawing" the other side will simply say: "how do
> we know that they signed this one, since they do not sign everything."

You may want to check with a lawyer who is familiar with digital signature
technology. The validity of digital signatures has been confirmed in several
court cases, and AutoCAD provides a very secure implementation. Faking a
digital signature would require an impractical amount of computing power (and
years of time). The verified presence of a digital signature should stand up
in court as proof that the drawing file was signed and has not been modified
since being signed.


> Getting a digital signature from verisign is pretty easy, but there is a fee.

Verisign and other certificate authorities provide digital certificates, which
are encrypted identifications of people or companies. Certificates are often
offered at different levels of identity verification, with more expensive
levels providing greater assurance of identity. Digital certificates are
protected by passwords, and a copy of the certificate used to produce the
signature is included with the signed file.



> Sinc eht esignature is associated with your email addess, we would have neeed
> to get one signature per address, which would add up.

You can use a single certificate for your company, but each authorized signer
would need this certificate installed on the computer they use to sign
drawings. The certificate could be installed by an administrator, so the
individual user need not know the password for the certificate (just the
password to log on to the computer). If an authorized signer left the company,
you need only remove the certificate from their computer.
--
Frank Whaley
Autodesk, Inc.
*Prettyman, Charles
Message 4 of 9 (374 Views)

Re:

05-15-2002 04:14 AM in reply to: *Henderson, Daryl
"Frank Whaley" wrote in message
news:3CE2954B.4E3AF076@autodesk.com...
> Charles Prettyman wrote:
>
> > According to our liability insurance broker (and my limited knowledge of
> > liability issues leads me to agree with this) using something like a
digital
> > signature to reduce liability is only effective if it can be implemented
> > 100%. Otherwise, the one and only time you nd up in court over the
question
> > of "did someone modify this drawing" the other side will simply say:
"how do
> > we know that they signed this one, since they do not sign everything."
>
> You may want to check with a lawyer who is familiar with digital signature
> technology. The validity of digital signatures has been confirmed in
several
> court cases, and AutoCAD provides a very secure implementation. Faking a
> digital signature would require an impractical amount of computing power
(and
> years of time). The verified presence of a digital signature should stand
up
> in court as proof that the drawing file was signed and has not been
modified
> since being signed.
>
The problem was not the question of the validity of the signature. The
issue was more that if we sign some drawings, and not others, then we are
decreasing the value of the signature. Unless we sign every drawing,
someone could always argue that thereason the drawing carried a broken
signature was that we had revised it. Or, argue that the reason that they
were working from an unsigned drawing was that we had sent them an unsigned
drawing.

The issue had more to do with quality control, and the impression of quality
control, than anything else.

Are you aware of any recent, or current cases where validity of electronic
files was at issue? I would actually be very interested in knowing about
any recent legal action that is related to this, not just for drawing files.

>
> > Getting a digital signature from verisign is pretty easy, but there is a
fee.
>
> Verisign and other certificate authorities provide digital certificates,
which
> are encrypted identifications of people or companies. Certificates are
often
> offered at different levels of identity verification, with more expensive
> levels providing greater assurance of identity. Digital certificates are
> protected by passwords, and a copy of the certificate used to produce the
> signature is included with the signed file.
>
>
>
> > Sinc eht esignature is associated with your email addess, we would have
neeed
> > to get one signature per address, which would add up.
>
> You can use a single certificate for your company, but each authorized
signer
> would need this certificate installed on the computer they use to sign
> drawings. The certificate could be installed by an administrator, so the
> individual user need not know the password for the certificate (just the
> password to log on to the computer). If an authorized signer left the
company,
> you need only remove the certificate from their computer.
> --
Ahh, I missed that part, that's good to know.


> Frank Whaley
> Autodesk, Inc.
>
>
*J.Talsky
Message 5 of 9 (374 Views)

Re:

05-16-2002 03:48 AM in reply to: *Henderson, Daryl
Is there some kind of digital signature for inhouse use and record keeping?
For example, if a client has a procedure whereby they have a set of lease
drawings showing leased spaces and they make a modification to some of the
spaces, they have a manager approve the change and then he signs (wet) the
drawings. They then move the electrongic version of the signed paper
drawing into a "signed" folder where it resides until the next change.
There is a problem with these "signed" electronic drawing files maintaining
their integrity as the original signed version.

I would like to suggest to them that they institute an electronic signature
of some sort that would effectively lock up the drawing as of that moment of
the signature being applied. Later when a change is requested that drawing
file can be opened and saved as something else which would then effectively
remove the signature. Opening and then saving the drawing back on itself
when it is signed would be impossible.

Verisign is designed for e-mail. I am hoping for something that is more
like a real signature and would be ideal if it actually created a written
signature on the drawing similar to the related wet signature on the paper
version.

Any ideas on this?

Jack Talsky
*Prettyman, Charles
Message 6 of 9 (374 Views)

Re:

05-17-2002 01:27 AM in reply to: *Henderson, Daryl
A lot of the better EDM systems address this. I have never managed to
convince my bosses that good EDM is worth even the time it would take to
research whcih system to consider. I think that they are being short
sighted, and they day that they, or someone they know, faces litigation
because of an error related to tracking changes in electronic filews, a
whole lot of brown smelly stuff will hit the fan. But, for hte moment, they
simply don't get it.



"J.Talsky" wrote in message
news:ECED43A7E6082843F6704EBF484B1CB5@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Is there some kind of digital signature for inhouse use and record
keeping?
> For example, if a client has a procedure whereby they have a set of lease
> drawings showing leased spaces and they make a modification to some of the
> spaces, they have a manager approve the change and then he signs (wet) the
> drawings. They then move the electrongic version of the signed paper
> drawing into a "signed" folder where it resides until the next change.
> There is a problem with these "signed" electronic drawing files
maintaining
> their integrity as the original signed version.
>
> I would like to suggest to them that they institute an electronic
signature
> of some sort that would effectively lock up the drawing as of that moment
of
> the signature being applied. Later when a change is requested that
drawing
> file can be opened and saved as something else which would then
effectively
> remove the signature. Opening and then saving the drawing back on itself
> when it is signed would be impossible.
>
> Verisign is designed for e-mail. I am hoping for something that is more
> like a real signature and would be ideal if it actually created a written
> signature on the drawing similar to the related wet signature on the paper
> version.
>
> Any ideas on this?
>
> Jack Talsky
>
>
>
>
*Bottemiller, Mark
Message 7 of 9 (374 Views)

Re:

05-17-2002 09:50 PM in reply to: *Henderson, Daryl
First off, I know nothing about digital signitures, but couldn't you use the
same email for all transmissions and eliminate the multiple signitures,
Secondly, keep archives of emails that send out the files to prove what they
may have gotten. If transfered by disk, you could set up a location where a
record of everything sent out is kept for future reference.
Just some thoughts from an uneducated person in this issue.
Mark





"Charles Prettyman" wrote in message
news:AC6FB74B8C28DB1D5B7A044BA76F7354@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I tested it briefly. Had the bosses gone for it, I would have liked to
> implement it office wide. Basically, you sigh up with Verisign, or some
> other digital signature company, and they will create a digital signature
> based on your email address. You can then use the digital signature
> extension to attach that signature to any drawing. Once you've done that,
> if anyone ever changes the drawing, the signature gets broken.
>
> The reason that we didn't implement it office wide comes down to an
> implementation of standards issue. According to our liability insurance
> broker (and my limited knowledge of liability issues leads me to agree
with
> this) using something like a digital signature to reduce liability is only
> effective if it can be implemented 100%. Otherwise, the one and only time
> you nd up in court over the question of "did someone modify this drawing"
> the other side will simply say: "how do we know that they signed this one,
> since they do not sign everything." Personally, I thought that signing
> everything was the answer, but there are bigger battles to fight first.
>
> Getting a digital signature from verisign is pretty easy, but there is a
> fee. When I did it there was a free trial, but after 90 days, or
something
> like that, you will pay. Sinc eht esignature is associated with your
email
> addess, we would have neeed to get one signature per address, which would
> add up. It's not a huge amount, but it is one more expense, and there is
> some administrative overhead required to cancel accounts as people leave,
> and add new accounts, etc.
>
> Once you have the digital signature from Verisign, or whoeer, you are not
> limitied to using it on drawings only, you can digitally sign anything.
>
>
> "Daryl Henderson" wrote in message
> news:5E8D2FA64777C1245554EA18F8A3DCA3@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Attn:
> > Has anyone used the Digital Signature from Point-A? How does it work
with
> or
> > on your projects?
> >
> > --
> > Daryl Henderson Designs
> > Architectural-Designer Consultant
> > 4060 Pocono Court
> > Stone Mountain, GA 30083
> >
> >
>
>
*Whaley, Frank
Message 8 of 9 (374 Views)

Re:

05-21-2002 04:22 AM in reply to: *Henderson, Daryl
"J.Talsky" wrote:

> Is there some kind of digital signature for inhouse use and record keeping?

The Digital Signature extension can help with this,
providing you acquire
digital certificates with adequate security (the definition
of "adequate" being
up to you).

Once a drawing file is signed, any change (even a single
bit) will invalidate
the signature. With AutoCAD 2000, saving a copy of a
drawing (modified or not)
removes the signature.


> I am hoping for something that is more like a real signature and would be
> ideal if it actually created a written signature on the drawing similar to the
> related wet signature on the paper version.

One reason we do not provide digitized signatures or other
indicators that
appear on plotted sheets is that they are easy to fake. You
can't even be
certain that a sheet plotted from a drawing bearing a
validated digital
signature is an accurate representation, unless you plotted
it yourself or check
it against the electronic version. This is one of the
reasons wet signatures
are still required in many applications; the wet signature
indicates that
someone reviewed that particular piece of paper.

Digital signatures are practical where electronic documents
are used, but the
security they provide applies only to the electronic version
of those documents.

--
Frank Whaley
Autodesk, Inc.
Active Member
402855611
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎02-18-2014
Message 9 of 9 (293 Views)

Re: Re:

03-16-2014 01:11 AM in reply to: *Whaley, Frank

Apply Visualized Digital Signature for AutoCAD drawings,a new software call "SmartSignSafety" provided. Search it ,or fellow it on AutoDESK APPs.

http://apps.exchange.autodesk.com/ACD/en/Detail/Index?id=appstore.exchange.autodesk.com%3asmartsigns...

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