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Class Action Lawsuit

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Message 1 of 101
useanalog
11090 Views, 100 Replies

Class Action Lawsuit

Is anyone else feeling like we should all get together and bring a class action lawsuit against Autodesk for the recent decline in product quality?  It seems as though we are paying Autodesk to be beta testers for their products, creating additional cost for the users in the form of reduced productivity.  

 

I personally think that Autodesk has begun doing a great disservice to the industries that have relied on its products for so long.

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Message 2 of 101
mgookin
in reply to: useanalog

That's not only the software industry in general but business in America today.

 

The scams are rampant through software, hardware and licensing/ subscriptions from "smart devices" on up to the biggest servers.

 

They are "selling" intangibles. How do you sell what does not exist? Enter the technology industry!

 

It seems both Autodesk and Microsoft have in recent years (versions) made stries to be more like Apple because of the dominant quality of Apple products with respect to reliability and graphics performance. Hence the stupid yellow fluffy button in Office 2007 where the File command used to be and the new interface with Autocad.

 

We the sheeple are victims of coke bottle glass wearning programmers who think they know what's best for us. All is does is brew anger and hate.

 

I'm with you in distaste for changing what works and what in my opinion is UNLAWFUL engineering to make things not backwards compatible, but I'm not down for a class action lawsuit. I just don't have time. If you can make our world better by doing it I'd love to see it happen.

Message 3 of 101
dgorsman
in reply to: mgookin

"We the sheeple are victims of coke bottle glass wearning programmers who think they know what's best for us. All is does is brew anger and hate."  Pot, meet kettle...

 

Oh no, we aren't getting exactly what we need!  I know, lets SUE everybody involved until we do!  Smiley Mad

 

The only thing lawsuits (or threatening thereof) will get is to push companies away from the field, just to avoid risk exposure.  Constructive criticism, acknowledgement that different companies have different needs, and a willingness to find a solution is a much better path forward than simply demanding PERFECTION!  NOW!

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 4 of 101
JamesMaeding
in reply to: dgorsman

we should not sue over quality, that should only affect our decision to buy or not.

What should be dealt with is the misleading marketing.  In particular, calling Civil 3D a BIM software.

Its so not, and any architect that runs revit or archicad would laugh at the discontinuities in C3D.

 

Vote with your money though, there is no standard of what is acceptable, quality wise.

I would also throw in that the programming API's are in better shape than ever.  The only thing better than a gun is a machine shop to build guided missiles (if you want to get ahead).


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I'm just here for the Shelties

Message 5 of 101
art_turner
in reply to: useanalog

you're not serious. what are some specifics? we have not loaded autocad 11 yet even though we are on subscription, or is it prescription, but 2010 is a very good program. if you see a real problem, you should state the problem. there probably are no magaizines that will let you do an op-ed, but you could start your own blog or website and try to define the problem, which would allow people to agree with you, and it would give autodesk some possibly useful feedback.

 

 

Message 6 of 101
JamesMaeding
in reply to: art_turner

oh, its serious.  the OP is completely correct that quality has gone down.  It feels like Adesk is chasing beginners now with most new features.  They never get tested with larger drawings which is closer to real life.

 

It does not matter though, Autodesk can do what they want, and say what they want.  We just stop chasing the promise of this and that, and get around investing in their software.  Not through illegal means though, just by buying acad or bricscad instaed of acad verticals, and minimizing subscription.  Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

You have to be careful about assuming subscription is cheaper than upgrade.  You wait three years and its real close, meanwhile your risk is low.  Keep a few seats on sub though, for support and file conversion.

 

The cad industry is in a big transition, as BIM (or modeling) programs take over.  The poor civils are still digging out of junky software.  It will not last more than a couple more years, the gap will be filled, and not by Civil 3D from what I see.  Its got a lot of good things, but the foundation is seriously cracked.  Its better to start over in designing the objects, than try to warp the existing ones into submission.

 


internal protected virtual unsafe Human() : mostlyHarmless
I'm just here for the Shelties

Message 7 of 101
AllenJessup
in reply to: useanalog

Suing autodesk won't force them to make a better product even if you win. They'll be out a little money that they'll make up by raising the prices a few more cents next year. The only one who will benefit are the lawyers.

 

Allen



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 8 of 101
namssurt
in reply to: AllenJessup

You can only claim if

a) they are selling an illegal product.

b) the product cannot be used to achieve their claims (irrespective of whether it does it efficiently)

or

c) causes irreparable harm - the drawings are wrong because of the software, not because of the user, or the software damages your computer, or it causes unavoidable loss of valuable data.

 

Many years back a local construction company tried to sue Lotus because a spreadsheet gave the wrong results when summing a column that they then used for a bid. Turns out that someone added a row in the middle of the sheet and didn't adjust the formulae correctly. They dropped the lawsuit with a lot of egg on their faces.

jg
Message 9 of 101
JamesMaeding
in reply to: namssurt

did anyone see the add claiming "40%"time savings?

This is the kind of thing Autodesk should be ashamed of.  The backup study was entertaining.  So embarrassing for a tech company.


internal protected virtual unsafe Human() : mostlyHarmless
I'm just here for the Shelties

Message 10 of 101
J.A.Mounteer
in reply to: JamesMaeding

I saw it referenced in an interview re: Mac-CAD someone linked me today on the ACA forum.  A lot of handwaving and refrencing MS Apps to explain why they weren't getting the ribbon even though AutoDesk is claiming that 44% productivity increase.

 

Referenced Interview: http://www.deelip.com/?p=3230

Message 11 of 101
art_turner
in reply to: useanalog

There is no basis for a lawsuit but there are some complaints, which are not new. Autodesk is chasing new users, but what would you want them to do. They do bring out new features that solve problems we already had to solve long ago. They do use these new features to set up productivity "studies" that are bogus to us. Most of our old tested and tried solutions involve lisp. The productivity studies use stock autocad. This situation does cause us trouble. We had a consultant young and stupid convince management that all our old lisp was old fashioned and unproductive, besides lisp would eventually be removed from the program. To a certain extent, you can understand where he got that, if he started autocad in the last 10 years, because that was the last time lisp went thru any improvement. its been deprecated.

 

real complaints, ever since 1988, not much to do except complain once in awhile and move on.

 

 

Message 12 of 101
namssurt
in reply to: art_turner

Or how about vba routines that require a separate download and then if you install vba capability, your computer slows down. That isn't backwards compatibility in the real world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

jg
Message 13 of 101
JamesMaeding
in reply to: art_turner

They should not chase new users by taking advantage of their ignorance.


internal protected virtual unsafe Human() : mostlyHarmless
I'm just here for the Shelties

Message 14 of 101
art_turner
in reply to: art_turner

Autocad's biggest problem to me has always been it is a single-file editor and everyone has to deal with the accumulation of files. It has never broken thru that paradigm, and everytime you bring it up, some fanboy breaks in and says, we dont want autocad to muck around with something it shouldnt be doing. so welcome to the status quo. welcome to new features like zebra-skin on bowling balls, but if you want to manage autocad itself, you need something else.

 

all you have to look at is how they are treating lisp to know they do need some prompting. when you hover over a variable in debug mode, should it tell you the value of the variable? has that been an obvious feature that would be nice for a while? has there been any customer interest in lisp? do people actually use it? is it useful? does it make money for them? when was the last tweak?  is it easy to learn and powerful?

 

 

 

 

 

Message 15 of 101
JamesMaeding
in reply to: art_turner

I just hate the thing where the vlide shows the blank page when you do a "load text in editor".

You have to close it before you can see your code, every time.

I must work the in the vlide like 50% of my time, as I do a lot of lisp, so I agree on improving it.

 

 


internal protected virtual unsafe Human() : mostlyHarmless
I'm just here for the Shelties

Message 16 of 101
pdnm1
in reply to: useanalog

I don't know, I don't see any major issues with Inventor that warrent a lawsuit.

Granted it seems like you are talking more about AutoCad, but Inventor has been improving by leaps and bounds over the last few releases. Case and point, about 4 yrs ago SolidWorks, Inventor's main competition was years ahead of Inventor when it came to adding new features. That's no longer the case these days. Over the last couple of releases Inventor has not only caught up to Solidworks, but blown right past them. As it stands, Solidworks is introducing "new" features that Inventor (or even other cad packages like Pro/E) have been able to do for years.

 

I'm thinking that maybe ADesk is looking to move AutoCAD into Inventor of the next few releases like they did with MDT?

And thus they aren't spending/improving ACAD as much? Just a thought.

Message 17 of 101
AllenJessup
in reply to: pdnm1

AutoCAD is the basis of other verticals. Civil 3D, Map3D  and others. Civil 3D has also been improving at a good space. So maybe you could say that Autodesk is concentrating on the verticals for a while.

 

Allen



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 18 of 101
TravisNave
in reply to: useanalog

The problem today is everybody suing everybody else for bogus reasons.  Nobody forced you to buy or use the software. If you do not like it, do not buy or use it.  There are other competitive software on the market. 

 

In my opinion, the majority of problems users experience is because of the lack of stable hardware that meets software certifications and the lack of training on the software.  Stop trying to run a $3000 software package on a $300 computer when your only knowledge of the software comes from a community college class whose version of the software is 5 years old already. 

 

Believe it or not, there are productive and satisfied customers. 

 



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Message 19 of 101
CCDesigner
in reply to: useanalog

You're joking right, useanalog? "Decline in product quality"?? WHAT?? Are you still using R9 and expecting it to upgrade with each windows version or something???

 

If you're really so freakin' unhappy with AutoCAD product, why don't you move to one of the other CADs out there and leave the real work to the big boys.

 

Smiley Very Happy

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Message 20 of 101
JDMather
in reply to: dgorsman


@dgorsman wrote:

"We the sheeple are victims of coke bottle glass wearning programmers .....


So now you are attacking people for the misfortune of being born with poor eyesight?
And what is a "sheeple"?


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