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*Turbo
Message 51 of 85 (59 Views)

Re: Bentley One-ups Autodesk

03-31-2006 01:07 PM in reply to: *clintonG
While I have only used Autodesk products, I will agree too.....just for teh
sake of keeping it peaceful and unanimuous for a change.

Jack Talsky


wrote in message news:5128789@discussion.autodesk.com...
While I've never written a book, I have spent the last 2 decades working
with both, and I have to agree.
*Larry H
Message 52 of 85 (59 Views)

Re: Bentley One-ups Autodesk

03-31-2006 02:48 PM in reply to: *clintonG
I'll agree to.
When I was going to school they required you to take a class with
Microstation and AutoCad2000.
Breezed right through AutoCAD but had to put in alot of study time to just
get the basics of microstation.
Only got a C for microstation and got an A in AutoCAD


"Turbo" wrote in message
news:5128884@discussion.autodesk.com...
While I have only used Autodesk products, I will agree too.....just for teh
sake of keeping it peaceful and unanimuous for a change.

Jack Talsky


wrote in message news:5128789@discussion.autodesk.com...
While I've never written a book, I have spent the last 2 decades working
with both, and I have to agree.
Distinguished Contributor
Steve_Stafford
Posts: 572
Registered: ‎12-20-2001
Message 53 of 85 (59 Views)

Re: Bentley One-ups Autodesk

03-31-2006 07:35 PM in reply to: *clintonG
Having used both over several years including both at the same time, also helping users of each learn either I'd say they both are a pain in the bottom. Neither is the least bit intuitive, folks have been using one or the other long enough that they don't remember what a pain it was to learn in the first place. Either that or they can't bring themselves to admit it 8-)

Microstation user...why doesn't my middle button work? When told to set variable "mbuttonpan" to 1...reply WHAT???WHY???

AutoCAD user...I have to use a "chord"??? (right button and left button simultaneaous) WHAT/WHY? Tenative? Select? huh? I have to pick a pick tool???
Active Member
tkdkid1
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎03-30-2006
Message 54 of 85 (59 Views)

Re: Bentley One-ups Autodesk

04-01-2006 09:15 AM in reply to: *clintonG
i say both are seriously outdated! it's hard to believe we're stuck with lines, arcs and circles after so many years. Heck aviation went from the wright flyer to the moon in 63 years. but here we are 22 years later still using the AutoDesk etch-i-sketch. What's up with that microstation design plane? at least in autocad you can chisel your design into place without it falling through the cracks.

I guess we can blame marketing? as long as nobody else steps up with decent software we the users will always get screwed. Autocad and microstation are the Lotus 123 of drafting right now. it will be interesting to see what happens. maybe autodesk will do a techonology turn around similar to microsoft's internet redirection.

face it we get no decent color support in autocad. no decent plotting for sets of drawings. no real drawing manager. no real text. no real integration in ms office. no real web tools. no real change management. collaborative design? and on and on.

the technology is so bad we can't even get a decent electronic file from any client - not even very large international clients that have huge budgets and large staffs. when did a drawing ever show up with everything on the correct layer with correct symbology? blocks? placed right? not some exploded, some not, some mirrored weird, all attributes correct and filed out for takeoffs?

of course the solution is your handy-dandy uber-customization ability. heck we even get a programming language so we can write all those missing functions we use every 2 seconds.

now we're getting tons of different products - the shotgun approach to product development. can't do it in autocad, how about architectural desktop, did you try revit, maybe it'd work in inventor, oh, jeez you gotta do that in another $2500 program called 3DS max. so now i want to see it online? arruuugghhh!

at the rate both companies move at least my career path isn't very challenging - grin. i'll be retired before seeing any disruptive technology. of course if autodesk and microstation had it together would i have a job? i don't need to actually know anything except autodesk software! I'm truly a robotic technical geek - all i have to know is a particular software application. I guess that makes me an application specialist. so who's complaining?
*Turbo
Message 55 of 85 (59 Views)

Re: Bentley One-ups Autodesk

04-01-2006 09:22 AM in reply to: *clintonG
sounds like you are still using R13.

Down load 2007 for a free 30 day trial.

Jack Talsky
Active Member
tkdkid1
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎03-30-2006
Message 56 of 85 (59 Views)

Re: Bentley One-ups Autodesk

04-01-2006 09:34 AM in reply to: *clintonG
already there with the latest and greatest! just started! i know folks that still use R12!

both autocad and microstation have changed over the years. I started with autocad in 1985 with the version just before the locked out one. i started with microstation when it was IGDS and only on a mainframe.

changes have been evolutionary - all most the same time scale - the technology has not fundamentally changed since the initial versions were created.
*Rodney McManamy - CADzation
Message 57 of 85 (59 Views)

Re: Bentley One-ups Autodesk

04-02-2006 10:52 PM in reply to: *clintonG
Neither program can go through major User Interface changes because then
other users complain that it doesn't look and work like it used to. So it's
really a double edged sword for any software developer. When do you wipe
the slate clean to make it easier for new users and when do you make minor
changes (like tool pallettes) and keep it familar to existing users?

In Microstation I still don't understand the Cell concept. Isn't a cell
something you type a number into in a spreadsheet? I've toyed with
Microstation but as far as being any easier to use then AutoCAD I don't see
it.

Overall I feel that AutoCAD really isn't that bad. But then again I learned
how to use it as a freshman in high school back when screen menus were the
big thing.

I use Illustrator 10 for marketing and magazine ads and I don't know how in
the hell people don't go out of their mind using that program. I tried
Corel and that wasn't any better. I took me an hour to figure out how to
insert a file. How intuitive is it for Windows users to use File->Place to
do it or to even right-click and not have Copy/Cut/Paste commands. Sure to
Mac users it might make sense but I'm using a Windows version. I still have
yet to figure out how to change the radius on a rounded rectangle or even
how to select all text that uses the same font. Either of which take a few
seconds in AutoCAD

Cars have gotten all kinds of fancy features over the years but they still
have a round steering wheel and gas and break pedals. The steering wheel is
still on the left hand side even though it would be safer in head on
collisions to be on the right hand side. It would also make it safer for
the driver to get out when parallel parked and probably give you a better
field of view for deer or animals jumping out in front of you. But there's
other reasons for it on the left and it's not likely to change in the US.

--
Rodney McManamy
President
CADzation
-------------------------
rmcmanamy@cadzation.com
-------------------------
518 South Route 31 Suite 200
McHenry, IL 60050
http://www.cadzation.com
Providing Industrial Strength
PDF & DWF Solutions to the
Global CAD Marketplace.

wrote in message news:5129414@discussion.autodesk.com...
already there with the latest and greatest! just started! i know folks that
still use R12!

both autocad and microstation have changed over the years. I started with
autocad in 1985 with the version just before the locked out one. i started
with microstation when it was IGDS and only on a mainframe.

changes have been evolutionary - all most the same time scale - the
technology has not fundamentally changed since the initial versions were
created.
Distinguished Contributor
rculp
Posts: 1,235
Registered: ‎03-22-2006
Message 58 of 85 (59 Views)

Re: Bentley One-ups Autodesk

04-03-2006 07:44 AM in reply to: *clintonG
The core program for AutoCAD has gone through 3 or 4 full re-writes in the last dozen years to keep up with hardware/software improvements and user demands.

MSTA's only re-write was between V7 and V8, when they finally understood that "connect-the-dots" was fine for kiddy coloring books, but was lunacy for CAD accuracy.

BTW, IGDS on a main frame was NOT MicroStation, But InterGraph. Two vastly different programs.
*CADWiz
Message 59 of 85 (59 Views)

Re: Bentley One-ups Autodesk

04-03-2006 12:36 PM in reply to: *clintonG
Where do you get this stuff?

As far as can tell, I have never seen anyone publish anything about version
adoption. Bentley being a private company are not releasing it so are you
just pulling numbers from your rear? Most companys I do business with use
V8 and most of those are ready to move to XM.

wrote in message news:5121596@discussion.autodesk.com...
Bentley has to support older versions, it 2/3 their market share.
Distinguished Contributor
rculp
Posts: 1,235
Registered: ‎03-22-2006
Message 60 of 85 (59 Views)

Re: Bentley One-ups Autodesk

04-03-2006 02:09 PM in reply to: *clintonG
A company that does MSTA resale and support in the Houstom area estimates that bewteen 60% and 70% of the MSTA users in the Houston market are running less than current versions. The Bentley website in 2002 claimed that between 55% and 65% of their user base waited at least 2 years to upgrade. Of the 6 clients we currently have, none are running V8, one is on V7 and the rest are earlier.

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