Aarrrgh...I'm going crazy...

[Anonymous]

...'just had to check out for a while - 3 new interns started today, to
supposedly help me bring our details and layer standards up to date. Well,
they just hired some people with a Civil Engineering career in mind, (no
AutoCAD background yet!), and I'm expected to get them going on this
stuff??? Like put them to work updating our standards???

OK - this is how you start AutoCAD - what's a layer?? Well....

'just had to let off a little steam - this is going to be a LOOONG
summer....

John

[Anonymous]

John, I feel your pain, I too have two rookie engineers to train and two
interns
to keep busy.

good luck
--
Karl Detrick
Cadd Manager
Creighton Manning Engineering
Albany, New York

08.01.0007 v8
08.04 inroads
Autocad 2000
ldd-3


"John Schmidt" wrote in message
news:A4A484C82D6FF6F12281EC15E437AB9F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> ...'just had to check out for a while - 3 new interns started today, to
> supposedly help me bring our details and layer standards up to date. Well,
> they just hired some people with a Civil Engineering career in mind, (no
> AutoCAD background yet!), and I'm expected to get them going on this
> stuff??? Like put them to work updating our standards???
>
> OK - this is how you start AutoCAD - what's a layer?? Well....
>
> 'just had to let off a little steam - this is going to be a LOOONG
> summer....
>
> John
>
>

[Anonymous]

I would talk with these interns and recommend to them that they enroll in a
neighbourhood college course in basic AutoCAD - also you might mention this
idea to your manager. This would be cheaper than having you teach three
people for 6 weeks.
--


Jamie Duncan

Consulting - If you're not part of the solution, there's good money in
prolonging the problem.
"John Schmidt" wrote in message
news:A4A484C82D6FF6F12281EC15E437AB9F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> ...'just had to check out for a while - 3 new interns started today, to
> supposedly help me bring our details and layer standards up to date. Well,
> they just hired some people with a Civil Engineering career in mind, (no
> AutoCAD background yet!), and I'm expected to get them going on this
> stuff??? Like put them to work updating our standards???
>
> OK - this is how you start AutoCAD - what's a layer?? Well....
>
> 'just had to let off a little steam - this is going to be a LOOONG
> summer....
>
> John
>
>

[Anonymous]

Should send them to your nearest Autodesk Authorized Training Center...

--
Craig
--------
I'm never gonna forget ol' what's-his-name...


"John Schmidt" wrote in message
news:A4A484C82D6FF6F12281EC15E437AB9F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> ...'just had to check out for a while - 3 new interns started today, to
> supposedly help me bring our details and layer standards up to date. Well,
> they just hired some people with a Civil Engineering career in mind, (no
> AutoCAD background yet!), and I'm expected to get them going on this
> stuff??? Like put them to work updating our standards???
>
> OK - this is how you start AutoCAD - what's a layer?? Well....
>
> 'just had to let off a little steam - this is going to be a LOOONG
> summer....
>
> John
>
>

[Anonymous]

"John Schmidt" wrote...
> OK - this is how you start AutoCAD - what's a layer?? Well....
>
> 'just had to let off a little steam - this is going to be a LOOONG
> summer....


So it's just for the summer? Gee, by the time you get them trained, they'll
be ready to go back to school. 🙂 You have my condolences.

[Anonymous]

Count your blessings, I had 20 designers, and about 30 production drafters
to train once. Not only did they not understand, but acted like spoiled
children because they didn't want to do it, and when they did, they wanted
miricles.

They're all grown up now...

Rule one, tell them to forget everything else, it doesn't matter if they
have a degree or masters.

Rule two, breath in breath out...

Rule Three, remember rule two...

Rule Four, your patience matter, don't ever show you're frustrated...

Rule Five, remember rule one...

Rudy@Cadentity.com
Cadentity.com

"John Schmidt" wrote in message
news:A4A484C82D6FF6F12281EC15E437AB9F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> ...'just had to check out for a while - 3 new interns started today, to
> supposedly help me bring our details and layer standards up to date. Well,
> they just hired some people with a Civil Engineering career in mind, (no
> AutoCAD background yet!), and I'm expected to get them going on this
> stuff??? Like put them to work updating our standards???
>
> OK - this is how you start AutoCAD - what's a layer?? Well....
>
> 'just had to let off a little steam - this is going to be a LOOONG
> summer....
>
> John
>
>

[Anonymous]

Thanks guys. When they told me they were going to get some interns to help
out with the busy work involved with bringing close to 1000 details up to
standards, (layers, linetypes and weights, etc.), I just assumed they would
be getting people who had at least a BASIC knowledge of AutoCAD, but am
getting co-employees' kids, etc. And they are only here for the summer, so
management won't pay for any outside training...

I taught AutoCAD for years, but I'm expected to get the interns just enough
up to speed to do what we need. It'll be frustrating, though - mainly
because it's going to take so much time away from what I really need to be
working on. Well, I can only do so much at once - 'will have to see what
management's priorities end up being...

Thanks again for the support - John

"Rudy Tovar" wrote in message
news:92869A2F04245D1E44907D60DC9767B8@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Count your blessings, I had 20 designers, and about 30 production drafters
> to train once. Not only did they not understand, but acted like spoiled
> children because they didn't want to do it, and when they did, they wanted
> miricles.
>
> They're all grown up now...
>
> Rule one, tell them to forget everything else, it doesn't matter if they
> have a degree or masters.
>
> Rule two, breath in breath out...
>
> Rule Three, remember rule two...
>
> Rule Four, your patience matter, don't ever show you're frustrated...
>
> Rule Five, remember rule one...
>
> Rudy@Cadentity.com
> Cadentity.com
>
> "John Schmidt" wrote in message
> news:A4A484C82D6FF6F12281EC15E437AB9F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > ...'just had to check out for a while - 3 new interns started today, to
> > supposedly help me bring our details and layer standards up to date.
Well,
> > they just hired some people with a Civil Engineering career in mind, (no
> > AutoCAD background yet!), and I'm expected to get them going on this
> > stuff??? Like put them to work updating our standards???
> >
> > OK - this is how you start AutoCAD - what's a layer?? Well....
> >
> > 'just had to let off a little steam - this is going to be a LOOONG
> > summer....
> >
> > John
> >
> >
>
>

[Anonymous]

I have always found it amusing that the very drawings that should be shining examples of the best drafting possible and an inspiration for all other work produced by the firm - standard details that will be reused over and over - are almost inevitably done by those with the least experience in both CAD and the technical matter at hand. With luck, there is at least supervision by someone who knows the subject matter, so that the content is correct, but the end result is, at best, a "usable" detail that barely meets minimum standards.

When I first started at my current firm [1983], I was a year out of school and fairly green. One of the first lessons imparted by those in charge at the time [in the bad old hand drawing days], was that the look of a drawing or detail was just as important [if not more so] than the content. The theory was that clients who were not in a position to understand or evaluate the technical content of the drawing/detail still would form an opinion on the quality of the work produced by the architect, and that graphically excellent work would have a positive impact on that opinion.

--

David Koch
Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program

[Anonymous]

This still goes.

At our company many take the stand that the
plot/print needs to be perfect, so the cad drawings they create are a mess,
they don't give a damn about any standard.

In my opinion, if a drawing is set up correctly to
the standards, the end result is without doubt perfect.

I'm struggling with this for over 10 years now and
are about to give it up, as long as my drawings are correct they can do what
they want.

Jan

--
Return email adres is fake.
Do not use, answer only in
newsgroup.
To much spam. ;-((

 

<snip>

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

 The theory was that clients who were not in a position to
understand or evaluate the technical content of the drawing/detail still would
form an opinion on the quality of the work produced by the architect, and that
graphically excellent work would have a positive impact on that
opinion.
--
David Koch
Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum
Moderator Program

size=2><snip>

[Anonymous]

John,

Didn't you have any say in what the interns were expected to know or want to
learn when it came to selecting the interns? Maybe, whoever made the
decision should have them assigned to them so they can deal with them. I
ran into this years ago when the offic brought in people to assist with data
entry. I would have well better off doing it myself rather than babysitting
people who did not kjnow a thing about what they were assigned.

Yes, it will be a loooooong summer for you...and likely to be frustrating.
Next time, stick your nose into the selection/criteria setting process.

Gary

"John Schmidt" wrote in message
news:A4A484C82D6FF6F12281EC15E437AB9F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> ...'just had to check out for a while - 3 new interns started today, to
> supposedly help me bring our details and layer standards up to date. Well,
> they just hired some people with a Civil Engineering career in mind, (no
> AutoCAD background yet!), and I'm expected to get them going on this
> stuff??? Like put them to work updating our standards???
>
> OK - this is how you start AutoCAD - what's a layer?? Well....
>
> 'just had to let off a little steam - this is going to be a LOOONG
> summer....
>
> John
>
>

[Anonymous]

Ain't that the truth.  When CAD came in
"DRAFTING STANDARDS" went out the window.  The machine will do
it.

I could show you some standards done using CAD by a
now defunct engineering co. here in the Boston area that would make any
drafting teacher cry(and get out the red pencil).

In my first drafting job, (late 60's) those"old
guys" were brutal.  Nothing was right, lines weren't straight enough or
consistent thickness, not enough lineweight difference from objects to
dimensions.  All the centerlines didn't look exactly the same.... and on
and on...  They probably would be up on harassment and hostile work place
charges today.  All I can say is  THANKS GUYS!!  Eventually I got
good enough to do the "General Standards and Work Practices"  book for that
company. It was an Electric Co and that's the only thing they could show the
other utilities.  Look at ours...

There are many discussions here and on other boards
about standards.  It is a subject that has been beaten to death, but is
never going away.  All you first time CAD Managers just starting out,
remember CAD standards are the means to drafting standards which leads to a
product all can be proud of.

Pete

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"David_W._Koch" <
href="mailto:dkoch@ewingcole.com">dkoch@ewingcole.com> wrote in message

href="news:f170ce6.6@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f170ce6.6@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

I
have always found it amusing that the very drawings that should be shining
examples of the best drafting possible and an inspiration for all other work
produced by the firm - standard details that will be reused over and over -
are almost inevitably done by those with the least experience in both CAD and
the technical matter at hand. With luck, there is at least supervision by
someone who knows the subject matter, so that the content is correct, but the
end result is, at best, a "usable" detail that barely meets minimum
standards.

When I first started at my current firm [1983], I was a year
out of school and fairly green. One of the first lessons imparted by those in
charge at the time [in the bad old hand drawing days], was that the look of a
drawing or detail was just as important [if not more so] than the content. The
theory was that clients who were not in a position to understand or evaluate
the technical content of the drawing/detail still would form an opinion on the
quality of the work produced by the architect, and that graphically excellent
work would have a positive impact on that opinion.

--

David
Koch
Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator
Program

[Anonymous]

'No choice in the selection process - employees, (NOT Cad employees), would
tell management their son, etc. would work for peanuts - management figured
"how hard can working on details be?" and dropped them in my
lap...grrrr.....

At least I know what to demand before the next round...

John

"Gary Vandawalker" wrote in message
news:44A5CA19BDE2151D3EEAF57F00BD5A2C@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> John,
>
> Didn't you have any say in what the interns were expected to know or want
to
> learn when it came to selecting the interns? Maybe, whoever made the
> decision should have them assigned to them so they can deal with them. I
> ran into this years ago when the offic brought in people to assist with
data
> entry. I would have well better off doing it myself rather than
babysitting
> people who did not kjnow a thing about what they were assigned.
>
> Yes, it will be a loooooong summer for you...and likely to be frustrating.
> Next time, stick your nose into the selection/criteria setting process.

[Anonymous]

>> The
theory was that clients who were not in a position to

>>
understand or evaluate the technical content of the

>>
drawing/detail still would form an opinion on the quality

>> of the
work produced by the architect, and that graphically

>>
excellent work would have a positive impact on that

>>
opinion.

That's a GREAT observation - if too many problems
arise from this, I'll be forwarding that quote to management in the hopes
they'll get me REAL interns, not just kids looking for a summer
job...

At least I do have a couple regulars here who will
be reviewing the work, so it's hopefully not going to totally consume all
my time.

John

[Anonymous]

I can totally understand and I feel your pain. Just hearing this irks me to
no end. Although my situation has been different, it not far from yours.
This is infuriating as it shows managements lack of respect towards you and
the work that you are doing. If they feel that any 'kid' can come in and do
this work, then why not. BS! I am running into this where management does
not have a clue what goes on and what is involved. With knowing just how
management see's my role and their feelings towards it, I am selectively
searching for employment elsewhere.

Good luck John...you'll need it.

James

[Anonymous]

Hey, don't knock us interns too bad.

I started out not knowing a darn thing about CAD, with the exception of
making a line and assigning a layer. Before I left to complete my
Architecture degree (still working on it) I was the CAD user the company
had. I may be bragging a little, but my former co-workers said as much
when I left.

I did finally ask my former boss why he hired me with no experience in
the field and he said "I wanted somebody who would be willing to learn,
not somebody who 'knew everything', you seemed like you wanted to learn."

I have always fealt that an intern willing to learn everything you can
teach him/her is more valuable than an educated user that was stuck in
his/her ways.

Cheers,
CMF

Gary Vandawalker wrote:
> John,
>
> Didn't you have any say in what the interns were expected to know or want to
> learn when it came to selecting the interns? Maybe, whoever made the
> decision should have them assigned to them so they can deal with them. I
> ran into this years ago when the offic brought in people to assist with data
> entry. I would have well better off doing it myself rather than babysitting
> people who did not kjnow a thing about what they were assigned.
>
> Yes, it will be a loooooong summer for you...and likely to be frustrating.
> Next time, stick your nose into the selection/criteria setting process.
>
> Gary
>
> "John Schmidt" wrote in message
> news:A4A484C82D6FF6F12281EC15E437AB9F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
>>...'just had to check out for a while - 3 new interns started today, to
>>supposedly help me bring our details and layer standards up to date. Well,
>>they just hired some people with a Civil Engineering career in mind, (no
>>AutoCAD background yet!), and I'm expected to get them going on this
>>stuff??? Like put them to work updating our standards???
>>
>>OK - this is how you start AutoCAD - what's a layer?? Well....
>>
>>'just had to let off a little steam - this is going to be a LOOONG
>>summer....
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>
>
>

[Anonymous]

Good luck to you, John, and hopefully it won't be as bad as you think it might. 🙂

I had an intern last summer who was a fast learner and willing to listen - that made my job very easy. After he'd been here about a month, he came over to me with 3 small lisp routines on a disk. He handed them to me so proudly, said he wondered if these might help me out, and that he'd found them on the internet. I thought it was a very sweet gesture on his part.

The 3 files were those bubble-with-arrow-attributed block lisp routines that came out at least 10 years ago, if not before then. I just didn't have the heart to tell this young man that I'd probably seen them, and used them, while he was still in grade school. 🙂

Mary Graves

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the thoughts. I've been able to start
them off on some simple stuff for now, (standardizing the text styles in the
details) - by the time they're done with that, I hope I can give them
step-by-step for the next stuff.

They're good learners - I just don't have the time
to teach them AutoCAD, and management doesn't want that anyway. The problem is
finding specific skill subsets that will get them by for what we need done - a
real challenge...

John

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"gravesmm" <gravesmm@aol.com>
wrote in message
href="news:f170ce6.14@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f170ce6.14@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

Good
luck to you, John, and hopefully it won't be as bad as you think it might. 🙂

I had an intern last summer who was a fast learner and willing to listen -
that made my job very easy. After he'd been here about a month, he came over
to me with 3 small lisp routines on a disk. He handed them to me so proudly,
said he wondered if these might help me out, and that he'd found them on the
internet. I thought it was a very sweet gesture on his part.

The 3 files were those bubble-with-arrow-attributed block lisp routines
that came out at least 10 years ago, if not before then. I just didn't have
the heart to tell this young man that I'd probably seen them, and used them,
while he was still in grade school. 🙂

Mary Graves

[Anonymous]

They're good learners
- I just don't have the time to teach them AutoCAD, and management doesn't
want that anyway. The problem is finding specific skill subsets that will
get them by for what we need done - a real challenge...

Sorry for jumping in so late...

Do you have a decent AutoCAD book for them to possibly read through
or have as a reference?

**************************************************************

Please, DO NOT send technical requests to me via private e-mail

**************************************************************

Tracy W. Lincoln

Assistant Moderator - Autodesk Discussion Forums

Discussion Group Links:

-----------------------

Index: http://discussion.autodesk.com

Rules: http://discussion.autodesk.com/webx?groundrules

 

[Anonymous]

I agree. You can't expect the interns to know anything. What they are
taught are the general principles and unless they are going specifically for
CAD they probably get 1 semester of CAD taught by someone who may or may not
be up-to-date with the latest AutoCAD. Plus if they can jump right in and
do your job I would be getting worried. Granted they should know the basics
which is why 10 years ago our class was drafting with 1/2 on the board and
1/2 on the CAD. The board gave you the understanding of projecting lines
and setting up views before adding the complexity of the CAD system. I hope
today it's still taught that way for the kids sake.

If you want to run a successful internship I suggest you talk management
into following the path that I went through. The company only hired interns
that would commit to a 3 semester internship. The first semester was
considered a break even where they probably spent about as much on training
as what they got back. But the last 2 definitely paid off. The secret of
it was to work 1 semester and then attend college the next. It was a little
harder for the students to get back into the swing of things but it really
worked out well. And what really worked was that for 2 or so weeks the old
intern would overlap with the new intern for training.

It was probably the best decision I ever made in my life. As an engineer
when I graduated, due to my internships and the fact that the foundry was a
tight knit industry to begin with, I turned down more interviews than most
people in my class got. I even had 2 headhunters I went through at a time
when over half of our graduating class didn't have a single offer at
graduation. And the real kicker was that I graduated as a Mechanical
Engineer but my entire internship was in the Metallurgy Department which
oversaw the process and not the equipment side of the casting process.

And for the company the payoff was well worth it. My boss had been an
intern, his boss had been an intern, and one of the interns that followed me
also took a job for the company. I didn't but I stayed in the industry
working for a Foundry equipment supplier. And as far as I know they are
still hiring interns 10 years after I went through.

Plus don't forget that at 1 time we were all the new kid on the block that
the other guys complained about.

--
Rodney McManamy
President
CADzation
www.cadzation.com
AcroPlot - The easy way to convert multiple AutoCAD and Word files to PDF.
rmcmanamy@cadzation.com

"Chris Ferris" wrote in message
news:0DC5CFAAA8A50B9345FFA3393F70A923@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Hey, don't knock us interns too bad.
>
> I started out not knowing a darn thing about CAD, with the exception of
> making a line and assigning a layer. Before I left to complete my
> Architecture degree (still working on it) I was the CAD user the company
> had. I may be bragging a little, but my former co-workers said as much
> when I left.
>
> I did finally ask my former boss why he hired me with no experience in
> the field and he said "I wanted somebody who would be willing to learn,
> not somebody who 'knew everything', you seemed like you wanted to learn."
>
> I have always fealt that an intern willing to learn everything you can
> teach him/her is more valuable than an educated user that was stuck in
> his/her ways.
>
> Cheers,
> CMF
>
> Gary Vandawalker wrote:
> > John,
> >
> > Didn't you have any say in what the interns were expected to know or
want to
> > learn when it came to selecting the interns? Maybe, whoever made the
> > decision should have them assigned to them so they can deal with them.
I
> > ran into this years ago when the offic brought in people to assist with
data
> > entry. I would have well better off doing it myself rather than
babysitting
> > people who did not kjnow a thing about what they were assigned.
> >
> > Yes, it will be a loooooong summer for you...and likely to be
frustrating.
> > Next time, stick your nose into the selection/criteria setting process.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > "John Schmidt" wrote in message
> > news:A4A484C82D6FF6F12281EC15E437AB9F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> >
> >>...'just had to check out for a while - 3 new interns started today, to
> >>supposedly help me bring our details and layer standards up to date.
Well,
> >>they just hired some people with a Civil Engineering career in mind, (no
> >>AutoCAD background yet!), and I'm expected to get them going on this
> >>stuff??? Like put them to work updating our standards???
> >>
> >>OK - this is how you start AutoCAD - what's a layer?? Well....
> >>
> >>'just had to let off a little steam - this is going to be a LOOONG
> >>summer....
> >>
> >>John
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>

[Anonymous]

summer school - at your expense?