Autodesk Survey Products

[#1]

I've got the Trimble Link application installed, and it did what it said-- it converted the .job file into a readable format with a .fbk file, but I'm curious... is it just me... or is this .fbk file just REALLY watered down? I seem to remember TDS and Carlson .raw files being changed to a .fbk file and it containing alot more information. Anyone else have the same issues?-- or know any other software or settings I can change to have the Trimble 5600 robotic give me more info at the end of the day to work with other than the angle right, distance, and vertical (zenith), and the point code?

Maaaaaaajor cheesy, if you ask me. I think we're gonna have to switch back to the Leica with Carlson, and the instrument man's just gonna have to suck it up and crank out angles again. LOL

[#2]

the only time i use trimble link is when i am downloading directly from the data collector switch is next to never. I have been downloading into TGO and converting all my points and information into a tds.dc then sending it to autocad and finishing the the processing there it adds a couple of steps but it works and u get the same result. yeah i do this the fbk is watered down but it works so well.

[#3]

Just have to agree on the fbk conversion. The TDS raw file for a traverse when converted to fbk just has the one reduced averaged azimuth in the latest version. I have to go back to the LDD3 version to get all the raw angles out. Only then is the least squares adjustment worth a flip in balancing a traverse and following up with network.
I don't think Softdesk understands / has a clue about the necessary observations for adjustment to accurate work. Hadn't tried to use LGO to do that. Has anyone experience in importing a TDS raw file into LGO to balance a traverse?? Would that allow one to mix it in with static/rapid static and even RTK???
Damn - I miss SOKKIA and Dos 6.22. Fast and accurate.
Noel

[#4]

Noel: I totally agree that the least squared adjustment routine would prefer to have all the F1 and F2 information, in a purely academic sense.



What I have instituted here is the crew taking multiple observations on the points, in our TDS Ranger it stores the multiple location shots as "OB" lines, or "Observation Only." The initial conversion from TDS Raw to FBK comments those lines out. So, the solution is to rename the "OB" lines as "SS" so that the FBK has yet another SideShot observation on my control.



Those multiple sideshots, combined with the original traverse locations - which are all boiled down to one observation - at least gives the Least Squares routine something to work with. But remember, the data collector boils all the doubled angles down to a single observation, not the converter of TDS Raw to FBK.



But you've got me thinking, taking a Raw TDS file and removing the comment lines in front of the "doubled angles routine" and converting those to "SS" lines... I wonder...?



Would the reversed angles and reversed vertical angles throw a major monkey wrench?

[#5]

OK
By using the old LDD3 version of the TDS converter you get all the observations out of the raw file. Just remove the last - averaged observation as that being just an average of the multiple will skew the least squares result.
Point one - The reduction programs understand F1 and F2 with verticals of 270 just fine. In observations in the field you will get much better closures if all HI's and HT's are input. Note that the LDD3 conversion to fbk does not put the prism heights in correctly on the F1,F1,F2,F2 procedure I have used since the days of log tables. Nonetheless a little care will give huge improvements in closures.
Point two. Just use the check closure routine which will create the input file for the least square routine.Then go to the least square routines.
Point three - be sure to edit the input file, It is best to have only one without a question mark. The issue of indvertantly having too many points locked is huge. The computer is not that smart, there are a number of things that will contine to cause that to be wrong, in the same fashion as the traverse route definition in the beginning. By ensuring the ? mark is on all points and those without have the correct x,y and z you will ensure you adjust all the angles and distances.
Getting it to do a 3D adjustment can be irritating, it defaults to 2D.
I use two or more GPS positions to orient the traverse after adjustment. The vertical should be good, but that depends on leg length etc. Often a digital level loop is in order for hard surface work.

Noel

[#6]

I've not used LDD3. I was under the impression that the TDS RAW to FBK always has occured from within "TDS Data Collection Link."

You're saying that LDD3 had a raw->fbk conversion routine built in?

[#7]

Well the Data Collection Link is what I am driving at. In LDD3 the version of the TDS translator was 7.14
The version I use now is 7.5.5. In the new version it takes the raw file out put and strips out all but the backsight zero and the foresight reduced azimuth.
That gives a least squares adjustment no real way of properly assigning any weighting to the multiple observations. Indeed in review you could not see any error or inconsistency.
You are doing what some surveyors did upon first aquiring a distance meter - when they started measuring the back and forward distance every other station. Why not - right? No its WRONG, so very wrong I cannot count the ways.
You must have multiple redundant measurements. You must close out the traverse. You cannot rely on modern machinery any more then we relied on the transit and chain. Electronics and GPS are better, but you still need to balance out the errors to avoid their accumulation in one spot. The old subdivision plat with one lot in the corner with no dimensions...
Now you cannot have over a tenth in a hundred acres - and the contractors GPS RTK has no way to account for any twist at all.

Rant over
Have a great weekend

Noel