Autodesk Mechanical Desktop

[#1]

To whom it may concern:

I think what we, MDT users need at this point is an honest reply from Autodesk, not a load of spin-doctor
crap from people who don't use the product in the first place.

1. How many seats of Inventor have been authorized?
2. How many seats of MDT have been authorized?
3. How long can we, MDT users continue to use MDT?

I also think we, MDT users should look into filing a class action lawsuit against Autodesk if for any reason
our MDT installations stop working.

Remember, we paid for this software and as long as our operating systems support the program
we should be able to run it as long as we want to.

I have programs on my Windows XP workstation that are no longer supported by the company that
developed them, but they continue to work today like they did when I first installed them. Some of my
programs are from the Windows NT days.

Daniel L. Floren (pissed-off and angry)
AutoCAD user from day 1
Mechanical Desktop user from day 1

PS New and Improved does not always mean better. What it really means is, much more expensive and much
more complicated.

[#2]

Who cares

[#3]

>1. How many seats of Inventor have been authorized?

I have no idea, but there are over 1 million members downloading next-generation 3D CAD software for free over here http://www.autodesk.com/edcommunity

I haven't seen an MDT based class at AU since I think 2004. I noticed that the Sean Dotson, winner of the CAD Society Joe Greco Award uses Inventor. Another user is Charles Bliss, winner of the Autodesk Manufacturing Community Award. I've met these guys and they impressed me as being very sharp minds.

You might browse back to the posts around the time of Feb 2002 to see what users were saying about MDT. It would be interesting to track down some of the best minds from that era and see what they say now.

>2. How many seats of MDT have been authorized?

Is that prior to Feb 2002 when MDT was bundled for free with Inventor?
MDT license is activated as Inventor license, so not sure Autodesk would know either.

>3. How long can we, MDT users continue to use MDT?

I imagine as long as you can keep a computer running with an activated seat. I still have a 386-16 with AutoCAD 11 running. How far are you from retirement? What version of MDT do you have? If you purchase Inventor 2010 you could download MDT and activate your license on two brand new machines. That should get you many many years into the future. You might even put one of them in a closet as a back-up. (Not sure if it is better to simply box up the computer and put it away for save-keeping, or if it would be better to boot it up from time to time.)

>I also think we, MDT users should look into filing a class action lawsuit against Autodesk if for any reason
our MDT installations stop working.

A good strategy might be to gather the names of MDT users and approach a lawyer ASAP rather than wait. Who knows how long it could take for a lawsuit to be resolved? And who know if it would be resolved in favor of MDT users?

>AutoCAD user from day 1

Impressive. It would be interesting to get all of the users together who started with AutoCAD day 1. Actually what does that mean? I was thinking the first release of AutoCAD when I first read that.

>New and Improved does not always mean better. What it really means is, much more expensive and much
more complicated.

Fortunately, in this case, the replacement next-generation technology (Inventor or SolidWorks) is much better than MDT. I used to teach MDT. Somewhere around v7 of Inventor I recall walking into my classroom and telling the students, "We will look at this Autodesk Inventor software, but upfront I need to let you know that MDT is my favored MCAD software." By the middle of the semester we no longer bothered to even open MDT - it was obvious that it was obsolete technology. And Inventor was far far less complicated to teach the students.

[#4]

I started with a drawing board and slide rule in 1961.

I started with AutoCAD at version 2.

Began MDT with Designer 1.0 and AutoSurf. Wrote two books on MDT. Did my
last training on it in March 2008 with one student who had been
searching for several years for an instructor who could still teach it.
Her job was to start working on conversions to IV while maintaining the
MDT database.

Started with Rubicon, then with IV version 1. Was a kid's toy until
version 5.3. Bitched about Inventor's Ribbon in IV 2010. Would not live
without Inventor (and the Ribbon) today.

Started with Macromedia Dreamweaver years ago, moved onward and upward
(my favorite was Dreamweaver 4 - did everything I needed).
Unfortunately, today's web servers no longer support the web pages it
created, so I had to move up once again... Now it's Adobe Dreamweaver CS4.

The point I'm trying to make is that everything has it's day, but life
moves on. You either change or retire and quit.

I'd rather embrace change. After all, you cannot fight progress. If you
cannot accept change, then you are in the wrong field.

BTW, I turn 63 on Sunday....
--
Dennis Jeffrey, Autodesk Inventor Certified Expert
Autodesk Manufacturing Implementation Certified Expert.
Instructor/Author/Sr. App Engr. Tel. (260) 399-6615
http://teknigroup.com

[#5]

There is a BIG
difference between a teaching and
working.

These kids when start work (hopefully), will change
their minds from

IV or SW (which is the same in mine opinion)
to MDT.

In work environment there is a about a 70% of
changing/updating rather than creating.

MDT is irreplaceable in both this
regards.

In ONE file -
MODEL/SCENE's/LAYOUT's and other 3D and 2D features - it's unique.

Besides third party apps cover up all fancy stuff
offering by IV or SW.

Al.

<JDMather> wrote in message
href="news:6311167@discussion.autodesk.com">
size=2>news:6311167@discussion.autodesk.com
size=2>...

>1. How many seats of Inventor
have been authorized?

I have no idea, but there are over 1 million
members downloading next-generation 3D CAD software for free over here
href="http://www.autodesk.com/edcommunity">
size=2>http://www.autodesk.com/edcommunity


size=2>I haven't seen an MDT based class at AU since I think 2004.  I
noticed that the Sean Dotson, winner of the CAD Society Joe Greco Award uses
Inventor.  Another user is Charles Bliss, winner of the Autodesk
Manufacturing Community Award.  I've met these guys and they impressed me
as being very sharp minds.

You might browse back to the posts around the
time of Feb 2002 to see what users were saying about MDT.  It would be
interesting to track down some of the best minds from that era and see what they
say now.

>2. How many seats of MDT have been authorized?

Is
that prior to Feb 2002 when MDT was bundled for free with Inventor?
MDT
license is activated as Inventor license, so not sure Autodesk would know
either.

>3. How long can we, MDT users continue to use MDT?

I
imagine as long as you can keep a computer running with an activated seat. 
I still have a 386-16 with AutoCAD 11 running.  How far are you from
retirement?  What version of MDT do you have?  If you purchase
Inventor 2010 you could download MDT and activate your license on two brand new
machines.  That should get you many many years into the future.  You
might even put one of them in a closet as a back-up.  (Not sure if it is
better to simply box up the computer and put it away for save-keeping, or if it
would be better to boot it up from time to time.)

>I also think we,
MDT users should look into filing a class action lawsuit against Autodesk if for
any reason
our MDT installations stop working.

A good strategy might
be to gather the names of MDT users and approach a lawyer ASAP rather than
wait.  Who knows how long it could take for a lawsuit to be resolved? 
And who know if it would be resolved in favor of MDT users?

>AutoCAD
user from day 1

Impressive.  It would be interesting to get all of
the users together who started with AutoCAD day 1.  Actually what does that
mean?  I was thinking the first release of AutoCAD when I first read
that.

>New and Improved does not always mean better. What it really
means is, much more expensive and much
more complicated.

Fortunately,
in this case, the replacement next-generation technology (Inventor or
SolidWorks) is much better than MDT.  I used to teach MDT.  Somewhere
around v7 of Inventor I recall walking into my classroom and telling the
students, "We will look at this Autodesk Inventor software, but upfront I need
to let you know that MDT is my favored MCAD software."  By the middle of
the semester we no longer bothered to even open MDT - it was obvious that it was
obsolete technology.  And Inventor was far far less complicated to teach
the students.

[#6]

So, Alex, if there are so many people still using MDT then why:

1. Is there is no demand for MDT Training (no new users)?
2. Are there are virtually no new posts in this discussion group ?
3. Are companies migrating files from MDT to Inventor (This has been
going on for at least 5 years PRIOR to the announcement of MDT's Demise.?
4. Are the posts here for MDT are primarily based on legacy versions of
MDT.?
--
Dennis Jeffrey, Autodesk Inventor Certified Expert
Autodesk Manufacturing Implementation Certified Expert.
Instructor/Author/Sr. App Engr. Tel. (260) 399-6615
http://teknigroup.com

[#7]

I'm just glad Inventor comes with AutoCad and Mechanical so I can still draw.

MDT is Autocad, period. I still need those Acad only tools such as unspline and the Acad layer manager. I also need the stitches surfaces module and some of the Nurbs support. I like being able to copy clip Acad 2D stuff and paste it into MDT and just start modeling. I also like being able to copy clip the MDT generated 2D views and paste them into Acad. I sometimes run both MDT and Autocad side by side. Not everyone here models but everyone uses DWG. Sometimes the detailer is not the modeler and with MDT there is no conversion, it's always a perfect round trip.

Next time you open your tool box to do a job around the house, or at work, ask yourself what would I do if someone took all of my favorite special tools away and replaced them with something else that didnt do the job.

[#8]

So many WHY's in my
life.

You better ask Autodesk.

I wish I have answer at least on part of
them.

For instance:

Why they want demise gasoline cars and replace them
for electrical ones?

Or that Global Warming
thing?

Confused

Al

"Dennis Jeffrey" <
href="mailto:djeffrey@teknigroup.com">
size=2>djeffrey@teknigroup.com> wrote in
message
size=2>news:6311507@discussion.autodesk.com
size=2>...

So, Alex, if there are so many
people still using MDT then why:

1. Is there is no demand for MDT
Training (no new users)?
2. Are there are virtually no new posts in this
discussion group ?
3. Are companies migrating files from MDT to Inventor
(This has been
going on for at least 5 years PRIOR to the announcement of
MDT's Demise.?
4. Are the posts here for MDT are primarily based on legacy
versions of
MDT.?
--
Dennis Jeffrey, Autodesk Inventor Certified
Expert
Autodesk Manufacturing Implementation Certified
Expert.
Instructor/Author/Sr. App Engr. Tel. (260) 399-6615

href="http://teknigroup.com">
size=2>http://teknigroup.com

[#9]

For me not having MDT is a huge issue. Probably bigger than many realize (this includes Autodesk).

I work for a company that designs and produces diesel engines and we also make in house most of the components that go into the engines. More specifically I work in the fuel systems department in an advanced manufacturing group. A big part of my work is manufacturing process planning for new products. This includes generating of complete process documentation and manufacturing drawings.

Around fifteen years ago I discovered Mechanical Desktop and it's outstanding capability to help me transform parts thru manufacturing operations. By that I mean turning, drilling, milling, etc, and also heat treatment, grinding, honing, microfinishing, etc. Heat treatment is a very peculiar operation where material expands (or shrinks) and there is not an easy way to model this behavior. In my case I have to be able to show absolutely correct models and drawings of a part for every step of the manufacturing process.
MDT is a VERY good software for doing this work. This is accomplished thru parametric (variable) dimensioning and a FLAWLESS interface with Microsoft EXCEL. To my knowledge there is NO OTHER software that can be used for this work.
Around three years ago I was forced to prove that was indeed is the case. (You see ProE is our official design software). So I contacted PTC and gave them a challenge to design me a completely parametric manufacturing process model for one of our parts. After several meetings and presentations, it was determined that ProE Wildfire was NOT capable of task.
Guess what, INVENTOR ISN'T EITHER.

I'm very disappointed that MDT is being dropped from the development and support. Autodesk should have been promoting and advertising MDT to workplaces like ours. There must be hundreds, if not thousands of manufacturing shops that have same task as me: transforming parts from raw material to finished components. And MDT is a #1 tool to help this process.

Inventor might be a good software for creating large assemblies that include many components and subassemblies. It might be good for putting assembly in motion and doing FEA, but it doesn't stand a chance as far as use in my specific application.

By the way I've been using Autocad and MDT from their inception and I do have Inventor and Wildfire loaded on my computer as well. So for me it is not so much an issue of a change as is taking away a VERY PRODUCTIVE and NECESSARY tool to do my job. And I agree with previous posts this is like taking away a tool box from a mechanic and still expect him to be efficient at his job ...

What do I do now, any suggestions ???

[#10]

So many WHY's in my life.
You better ask Autodesk.
I wish I have answer at least on part of them.
For instance:
Why they want demise gasoline cars and replace them for electrical ones?
Or that Global Warming thing?

Confused

Al
"Dennis Jeffrey" wrote in message
news:6311234@discussion.autodesk.com...
I started with a drawing board and slide rule in 1961.

I started with AutoCAD at version 2.

Began MDT with Designer 1.0 and AutoSurf. Wrote two books on MDT. Did my
last training on it in March 2008 with one student who had been
searching for several years for an instructor who could still teach it.
Her job was to start working on conversions to IV while maintaining the
MDT database.

Started with Rubicon, then with IV version 1. Was a kid's toy until
version 5.3. Bitched about Inventor's Ribbon in IV 2010. Would not live
without Inventor (and the Ribbon) today.

Started with Macromedia Dreamweaver years ago, moved onward and upward
(my favorite was Dreamweaver 4 - did everything I needed).
Unfortunately, today's web servers no longer support the web pages it
created, so I had to move up once again... Now it's Adobe Dreamweaver CS4.

The point I'm trying to make is that everything has it's day, but life
moves on. You either change or retire and quit.

I'd rather embrace change. After all, you cannot fight progress. If you
cannot accept change, then you are in the wrong field.

BTW, I turn 63 on Sunday....
--
Dennis Jeffrey, Autodesk Inventor Certified Expert
Autodesk Manufacturing Implementation Certified Expert.
Instructor/Author/Sr. App Engr. Tel. (260) 399-6615
http://teknigroup.com