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    Active Contributor
    pompeo79
    Posts: 45
    Registered: ‎02-08-2011
    Accepted Solution

    Positional Representation Assembly - Flippin' Problem

    226 Views, 5 Replies
    10-05-2012 07:42 AM

    Hi,


    i have  a problem to manage some pos representation  in this assembly )see link below).

     

    The max vertical rep, (using angle constraint third type too) give me some problem with a cylinder and his rod, they just flip.

     

     

    Any idea?

     

    Thanks to all

     

    To download the assembly:

     

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63643836/Excavator%20Positional%20rep.rar

    Please use plain text.
    *Expert Elite*
    Posts: 855
    Registered: ‎02-16-2006

    Re: Positional Representation Assembly - Flippin' Problem

    10-05-2012 08:07 AM in reply to: pompeo79

    I haven't opened your assembly so I'm not sure this answers your question but this is a common problem with hydraulic cylinders.

    I assume you used axis/axis and angle constraints, I found this unstable.

    If you have drawn the rod and the cylinder centred on their origins then use the origin workplanes to constrain the sliding.

    This is a robust approach and should not flip.

    Please use plain text.
    Active Contributor
    pompeo79
    Posts: 45
    Registered: ‎02-08-2011

    Re: Positional Representation Assembly - Flippin' Problem

    10-05-2012 01:25 PM in reply to: harco

    I have tried already, the problematic cylinder....fixed in the orientation with the 3 origin plan, angle constraints.

     

    Thanks for support!:smileyhappy:

     

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    Distinguished Contributor wh
    Distinguished Contributor
    wh
    Posts: 126
    Registered: ‎12-27-2003

    Betreff: Positional Representation Assembly - Flippin' Problem

    10-06-2012 04:02 AM in reply to: pompeo79

    This is another example of Inventor's buggy constraint handling.

     

    I've seen many flexible cylinders loosing their constraints and setting them bad, for no visible reason. This happens often with cylinder/rod combinations with +/- insert constraints. You can open the cylinder sub-assy, move the rod by mouse, and the constraint is back again.

     

    With this excavator, all attempts with the cylinder near the boom were not successful. I only could get it stable, after moving it up into the main assy. Thus, I could get rid of the problems in Main and Free posrep, but not with Max vertical position.

     

    This position simply can't be handled. The four bar linkage at the bucket assy flips and can't be set up, as needed.

    As a remedy, I added Begrenzungswinkel and Begrenzungswinkel 2 as limits for the angular position of the bucket and the bucket link. But although the bucket angle was limited as +/- 30°, it's juming to about 105°. This should never happen, and results in flipping of the 4-bar linkage.

     

    You can see this method working well in the minor assy Constraints ok.iam. But Inventor can't handle it in the still rather simple main assy.

     

    I think, this should be improved. I don't need another UI change, but I'll have to do my job with tasks like that.

    Walter

     

    Files (only the changes) can be downloaded because of filesize for some time here:

    www.holzwarth-cad.net/Joomla/media/download/Excavator_changes.zip

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    Active Contributor
    pompeo79
    Posts: 45
    Registered: ‎02-08-2011

    Re: Positional Representation Assembly - Flippin' Problem

    10-06-2012 04:46 AM in reply to: pompeo79

    Great reply Walter ! ! !    thank you ! !   :smileyhappy::smileywink:

     

    That's the answer that i was wainting !

     

    I have already downloaded your assembly, so you can drop off the rar,  thank you for your time and your patience to solve, change and upload !

     

    At the end of the story just  a limit that need to be solved in Inventor Constraint with positional rep !

     

     

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    Active Contributor
    pompeo79
    Posts: 45
    Registered: ‎02-08-2011

    Re: Positional Representation Assembly - Flippin' Problem

    10-06-2012 04:56 AM in reply to: pompeo79

    Nice paper-style inv background :smileyvery-happy:

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