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Time spent on ADT

54 REPLIES 54
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Message 1 of 55
kmatis
652 Views, 54 Replies

Time spent on ADT

I'm not sure how other people feel about this, but I seem to spend 50% of my time trying to figure out how to draw something rather then just drawing it. I consider myself very knowledgable in Autocad but just tried to do a side job the "correct" ADT way with 3D modeling and everything and it's taking twice as long to do it vs. drawing it in 2D! I don't know how everyone elses offices are but 3/4 of my office struggle with basic AutoCad let alone drawing everything in 3D. How many of your offices actually use ADT the correct way?
Just wondering if I'm all alone in this or not.
Kevin
54 REPLIES 54
Message 21 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

I don't generally design a custom house in 2
days....too many things to think about, none of which are CAD related. The
design model always impresses the client. I show the model along with plots
to sell the design. I wonder what that's worth?

 

I do find the 3D model to be useful for making
elevations and as a start for sections. If I did my work during design, these
puppys are very useful.

 

I'm not saying ADT 2004 is perfect. I am saying I
wouldn't work any other way.

 

Dennis


--
Dennis McNeal, AIA
Autodesk BSD


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I
dont mean to be rude but blocking out the house is the shortest portion of
time for a project. Typically 2 days for me. The CD, which does contain the
elevations, takes between two weeks for 2-3k s.f. and 1 month for a 11k home.
Now what your saying is that I should spend 2-4 weeks modeling the house so
that I can export a relatively useless 3D drawing which I then have to paste
2D details too. Then start the CD after that...hmm ok 1.5 months just to do
probably a 3k home. I dont know how busy everyone else is but not only does
this not produce a better product but it also wastes my time. Also the
possible money that could be made if 2 jobs were done in that same time
period.

Here is the kicker....the client will never probably see the
3d model I made because how can I show a 3d model with 2d objects pasted to
it...
Its does not seem to work for high end residential...so what I
propose is too really make the 2D part FLY. Then not only will 2D people be
happy but the 3D as well.
1) Find ways to cut regens.
2) Fix the
bugs
3) Make the program load faster
4) Make 2d and 3d objects work
together.
5) Optimize all the menus and palettes. For properties add a hide
non-editable attributes function.
6) I can go on but I have to get back to
work.

When I get back to my ACAD 14 speed, with the added beauty of
doors/windows/(walls... maybe someday after they have evolved to be more
friendly)area schedules/xref&block double click editting and all the other
supporting cool little funtions, I will be most happy. Right now it takes me
25% longer than ACAD 14 and thats after extreme Autolisp streamlining of
ADT.

Thanks,
Beta
Message 22 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

Please send us an example data set.  It would be used for
internal purposes only.   Email to
href="mailto:chris.yanchar@autodesk.com">chris.yanchar@autodesk.com
.

 

Thanks


--
chris yanchar | product designer
building solutions
division
autodesk, inc.

 
Message 23 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

    I have done the manual drafting
thing and used/worked with AutoCAD from release 9 until adt 4,
microstation, softdesk 7-8, pro engineer, and a few others and it is the same
with ever program. Things do not work the way YOU want them or smoothly. It's
the way people are they always want something better or improved on. How do you
think we got from AutoCAD 1 to 2004? If this program (EDITED) so bad then how is
autodesk still around and on top? I wouldn't go back to R10 or R14 for the life
of me! Yes sometimes walls and such do not work all the time just right but you
can get them to work. Just because they do not work like you want or use to do
things. Some people just think " I used 14 all my life this should be easy" and
it turns out not so easy with out some training or learning of the new software
parts. You can't jump on a bull and expect to ride it for 8 seconds now can you?
NO! Did you jump on your bike and ride off with out training wheels the
first time?
    We do everything from home,
office buildings, retail, commercial, college. We just did a 14 level
and 2 underground levels of parking, 36,000 sqft building footprint with hotel,
condos, apartments, retail, office space. Let's just say door tags
came in really handy and that is a under statement! We did it all in 3d. CD's in
2 months with just architectural alone was 100 sheets. It made elevations,
building sections easy. Yes you can't do everything in 3d, details and wall
sections. But you can use the 3d as a base and go from there with 2d lines on
details, building sections and wall sections.
    Some people as soon as they got
ADT 2004, before they even gave it a chance want to know how to get their old
AutoCAD tools back. Without giving it a chance and bring back all the old autcad
tools and lisp you will never get where you want with the program. There are
major improvements! People in the office ask me questions all the time on stuff
they get stuck on. When I show them they feel dumb because it was so easy and
they over thought it!
    You can go to revit or any other
program and you will still be frustrated if you never learn the software first
and just want it to do for you instead work for you.
 

"David Hogan"
wrote in message news:B84A95D5E921F38C2AABA4554521B336@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
ADT is too much of a hassle. I'm the only person
here who uses it. Everyone else using ADT1 as ACAD. Big issue is file
incompatiblity, increased corrupt files and so on. Also, it's not oriented
toward renovation (currently our bread and butter): no built-in
Existing/Demo/New layering/objects. Heck, an addon I used 10 years ago did
that better (Cad***s). No interest by boss in Revit (hardware req/cost). Doubt
we'll change any time soon, even if Adesk pulls a 14 on
us.
Message 24 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

You ever seen a bag o' hammers? Dumb.

Not to say nails are any smarter...

--
Matt Dillon
Assistant Moderator: Autodesk Discussion Forums


"Nathan" wrote in message
news:0EC9E63353797FF70F764599AD8D3FE1@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> They're not intelligent, they're dumber than a bag of hammers.
>
> Should that be a bag of nails??
> Not to be technical about it 🙂
>
>
Message 25 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

There are plenty of dumb architects. A degree nor license to practice does
not confer the status of smart on any person.

"Craig Sharp" wrote in message
news:1B28417218D116249C4120C34B74B506@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I think there's a reasonable debate about what a SMART firm is. Being from
a
> DUMB firm I can say that we may someday look SMART when the product
arrives
> that will inspire firm management to use the services it provides. That
> product, apparently, only currently exists for SMART firms. So when the
> product comes out for DUMMIES then I bet it will catch on like wild fire
> because you don't get to be a practicing architect and survive by being
> stupid, Matt.
>
> "Matt Dillon" wrote in message
> news:640C445C3DFFBB6AD6B26DC530A611AD@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Ooooohhh... I love this... almost my favoritest (and worstest) subject.
> >
> > You're dealing with something that everyone who moves toward the BIM
> > (Building Information Model) will deal with at some point, regardless of
> the
> > technology that they choose to do it with. It doesn't matter if you're
> using
> > ADT, Revit, Tri-Forma, ArchiCAD, Jomama's Architectural CAD Software, or
> for
> > that matter, bare bones, vanilla AutoCAD.
> >
> > "Wait a minute", you say. "Who the heck said anything about 'Building
> > Information Modeling'? I just wanna get my CD's out!" When you moved to
> ADT,
> > even if your sole intent was to increase 2D functionality, you made a
> move,
> > be it ever so incremental, toward the BIM. You're now dealing with
> objects,
> > not lines, arcs and circles, as Chris said. (Notice I didn't say
> > "intelligent" objects. They're not intelligent, they're dumber than a
bag
> of
> > hammers. Who the heck ever said a wall was "smart"?).
> >
> > So, even if you only care about your 2D construction documents, you have
> to
> > deal with these objects by understanding and manipulating the rules that
> > govern their behavior. Example. "Draw" a wall in ADT (you aren't
drawing,
> > you're modeling, but we'll stick with traditional terms for now). Place
a
> > column that "interferes" with the wall. A common enough occurence in
> > architecture, right? So, what would you do in traditional AutoCAD. Go
> > ahead - try that TRIM command to clean up one of the "lines" that
defines
> > the wall. The whole wall is now broken. Most people here will decide
that
> > ADT is garbage and go back to familiar things - lines, arcs and circles.
> > Forget those stoopid objects. But if you understand the rules, you know
> > about wall interferences and how much better than a TRIM they are in
these
> > circumstances.
> >
> > OK, that's just an example. My point is that it's a different set of
> rules,
> > and you, as well as your fellow employees, have to learn how to
manipulate
> > those rules, just as you had to learn how to use OSNAPS and coordinate
> entry
> > when you first learned how to use AutoCAD.
> >
> > But learning isn't enough. Training is hugely important. But it is not
> > enough. You are also dealing with a cultural change. Management has to
> > understand the benefits and the committment required to see those
> benefits.
> > And that message has to get down into the trenches. The days of the 2D
> > drafter are gone. Chris mentioned secretaries. How many offices have a
> > secretarial pool anymore? Word processing, spreadsheets, and a whole
host
> of
> > other technologies killed them off a long time ago. "Drafters" are
> becoming
> > obsolete. Heck, "becoming"? They've been obsolete for years. The SMART
> firms
> > are the ones who are clueing into the changes that are coming to the AEC
> > industry (changes that have already revolutionized the Manufacturing
> > industry and are now part of the mainstream). The SMART firms have done
> > away with "drafters" and are staffed by professionals - interns and
> > architects - who understand the software and understand that the BIM is
> not
> > an option, but the direction that things are going - you can either get
> > onboard the train, get run over by it, or watch as it sails on by you,
> > taking your business with it (sorry for mixing metaphors, but I AM an
> > ex-sailor).
> >
> > I don't mean to ramble, so I'll stop here with three pieces of advice.
> >
> > 1) Get management buy-in. This means making management aware of the
> benefits
> > AND the commitment (on several levels) and expense required to get
there.
> > There are people out there to help you do this, if you think that your
> > principals are willing to listen. Contact me at my return email if you
> want
> > more details.
> > 2) Develop a plan. You won't get there overnight. The BIM is an evolving
> > organism, and evolution takes time.
> > 3) Be patient. You have a learning curve ahead of you. The sooner you
> tackle
> > it, the sooner you will break through to the other side. Others have
done
> so
> > before you. Believe me. There is an "other side". I know. There are
firms
> > (big firms) out there RIGHT now that have been where you are and who
have
> > successfully come through and are using ADT to evolve the BIM further,
and
> > are already seeing the benefits of doing so.
> >
> > And continue posting here to ask questions and suggest changes.
> >
> > --
> > Matt Dillon
> > Assistant Moderator: Autodesk Discussion Forums
> >
> >
> > "Matistimo" wrote in message
> > news:f180b32.-1@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > I'm not sure how other people feel about this, but I seem to spend 50%
of
> my
> > time trying to figure out how to draw something rather then just drawing
> it.
> > I consider myself very knowledgable in Autocad but just tried to do a
side
> > job the "correct" ADT way with 3D modeling and everything and it's
taking
> > twice as long to do it vs. drawing it in 2D! I don't know how everyone
> elses
> > offices are but 3/4 of my office struggle with basic AutoCad let alone
> > drawing everything in 3D. How many of your offices actually use ADT the
> > correct way?
> > Just wondering if I'm all alone in this or not.
> > Kevin
> >
> >
>
>
Message 26 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis


(setvar "lurkmode" off)

 

gotta step in here...sorry guys


 

>I have come up will millions of shortcuts and CD timesavers.

 

yep, same here, trouble is, I pushed customizing
Acad 10, 11, 12, (uh, 13?...  skipped it) 14 as far as I felt I could over
five years ago. That was per-r-t-ty far, but ADT (release 1 ! ) gave me more
options to improve on that than I ever thought possible. Things have only gotten
better with subsequent releases. But back then, I even

size=2>put the program on the shelf for a short time for the same frustrations
as you have expressed:

 

Too much work! Not enough time! Still true, but I
wouldn't go back to a non-model based solution if you paid me back every cent I
ever invested in ADT. Every day, an opportunity comes up where I can invest 15
minutes and save two hours. You'll get there. The light DOES go on, trust me,
and I'm dense as a post.. or maybe I'm one of those hammers in Matt's bag
:0)

 

 

>I hate documenting things belive me.

 

again, same here.. you should hear my production
director wail about this, its almost comical, but he's absolutely right. I have
twelve 4" binders full of stuff  I've categorized and expanded on ( one
page, one day, at a time) from information  I've gotten from these
 ADT newsgroups, Chris Y.'s Braindumps,  John Jantzen's site,
Cadmin.com, Rob Starz and his work at Stardsgn.com, the  _amazing_ 
Mr.  Odin Carey at Archidigm.com, and obviously Mr. Paul Aubin, aka
"Master of the Curtainwall" (... that theatre seat thing STILL impresses
me, Paul), and all the other unmentioned but highly praised contributors to this
information resource. I don't know how I could have coped without them, and
No, I haven't printed the ADT4 epic, yet, but
it's on my to-do list.

 

You have so many helpful people right at your
fingertips. Take advantage of that. They don't mind, really!

...(but search first, it's a sore spot for
some)

 

 

>But ADT really can just document doors and windows for my purposes.

 

...ok fine.

 

>It cant label tie-beams because I dont want each one to have a diferent
number.

 

..but it could if you wanted it
to.
 I don't personally have a
current interest in multilabeled tie-beams but it seems simple enough,
everythings gotta handle, and if you use the vlide for your lisp you can inspect
object properties, then access all sorts of data you probably never knew
you had
(but... why would you?... lines, circles,
and arcs don't have that much in the way of properties)

 

>It can't layout trusses or add notes about tempered glass

 

wrong. been there, did that... both
thats.

 

> or dimension my steel columns or dimension my interior walls
correctly or add simple text at each door showing its size(maybe >it can do
this) or layout my electric or add footers or or or....thats alot of work that
ADT really dosnt help me with...I dont >even use door and window tags because
I like the text for the window/door to be right next to the door/window.

 

Again, these tasks CAN be done. You may
not be able to accomplish these goals by yourself, YET, but, If you make enough
noise, and pleading helps, 
(I
personally rely on "Doritos" and "Mountain Dew" bribes)
someone probably will offer up a step or two in the right direction, or
they just might do a task for you only to prove it can be
done.

 

 

>Also, for windows I would have to assemble all my windows exactly to
get a correct schedule..that takes tooo much time.

>and I am an optimist.

 

forgive me, but you seem like an awfully
pessimistic optimist.

 


>Cya,
>Beta
>I should
send you one of the smaller homes I have worked and maybe you will understand
where I am coming from better. The >big custom homes just seem a bit
incompatible with the use of ADT3d in conjucntion with my TIME frame.

 

 

Please DO post, someone will chime in to help.

 

As for project scale, My QC dept and
I have done the dang near impossible: 25+  subscriptions for ADT4 just
bought by the Company I work for after we proved we can cut project
production cycle times in half with it. The product line ranges
anywhere from your basic 900 sf box ( tastefully designed, naturally) to 5-6ksf
semi-custom, in a production housing setting, and the design dept. just realized
they're going to need to quadruple output just to keep up. I can't wait to see
their reaction when we ramp it up with section and elevation tools.

 

 

...and BTW the largest sfr occupancy that, so
far, I personally have designed, C-doc'd ( "sh-h-u-s-h", Matt
said...) and rendered in ADT has been a

size=2>9,789 sf behemoth of a residence, but what the heck. I don't live there
and I can't see it from my house.

 

 

W.
Message 27 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

I also have to chim in here,

 

one of the best things "I" here about the 3d models
is from the contractors, we put 3d isometrics all through our CD's, roofs,
framing, ductwork etc and the contractors love em (they tell me). not only do
they help them understand the building but they also seem to be good for asking
questions.

 

I may have 3 elevations and one isometric on a
sheet, and the contractors will always point to the 3d view when asking a
question.

 

I also agree with Dennis about showing them to the
client, it has been a very useful tool for us.

 

steve oyer


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

I don't generally design a custom house in 2
days....too many things to think about, none of which are CAD related. The
design model always impresses the client. I show the model along with
plots to sell the design. I wonder what that's worth?

 

I do find the 3D model to be useful for making
elevations and as a start for sections. If I did my work during design, these
puppys are very useful.

 

I'm not saying ADT 2004 is perfect. I am saying I
wouldn't work any other way.

 

Dennis


--
Dennis McNeal, AIA
Autodesk BSD


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I
dont mean to be rude but blocking out the house is the shortest portion of
time for a project. Typically 2 days for me. The CD, which does contain the
elevations, takes between two weeks for 2-3k s.f. and 1 month for a 11k
home. Now what your saying is that I should spend 2-4 weeks modeling the
house so that I can export a relatively useless 3D drawing which I then have
to paste 2D details too. Then start the CD after that...hmm ok 1.5 months
just to do probably a 3k home. I dont know how busy everyone else is but not
only does this not produce a better product but it also wastes my time. Also
the possible money that could be made if 2 jobs were done in that same time
period.

Here is the kicker....the client will never probably see the
3d model I made because how can I show a 3d model with 2d objects pasted to
it...
Its does not seem to work for high end residential...so what I
propose is too really make the 2D part FLY. Then not only will 2D people be
happy but the 3D as well.
1) Find ways to cut regens.
2) Fix the
bugs
3) Make the program load faster
4) Make 2d and 3d objects work
together.
5) Optimize all the menus and palettes. For properties add a
hide non-editable attributes function.
6) I can go on but I have to get
back to work.

When I get back to my ACAD 14 speed, with the added
beauty of doors/windows/(walls... maybe someday after they have evolved to
be more friendly)area schedules/xref&block double click editting and all
the other supporting cool little funtions, I will be most happy. Right now
it takes me 25% longer than ACAD 14 and thats after extreme Autolisp
streamlining of
ADT.

Thanks,
Beta
Message 28 of 55
betazero
in reply to: kmatis

Ok I sent you a drawing.



beta
Message 29 of 55
a.c.childress
in reply to: kmatis

I'll bet more time has been spent on this thread than I spent learning to use 3.3.
Message 30 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

Yeah, if you're from one of those dummie firms that
can't type very fast...


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I'll
bet more time has been spent on this thread than I spent learning to use
3.3.
Message 31 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

I have a client that hired me to do some
customization and training on ADT. Today, I was working on their Wall Styles.
You are right, ADT does not come with a Demo and Exist Wall Style. I set these
up, created Layer Keys for them and built a Tool Palette with a tool for each
style. How long did it take? Let's just say that I have had VCRs that took
longer to setup. It would have been nice if Autodesk had added a demo, and exist
Wall Style out of the box, but hey, now they are setup and it took little
time to do it.  There is not a piece of software out there that does not
require some setup time.

 

--
paul

 

Paul F. Aubin
Buy Mastering Autodesk Architectural Desktop and

Autodesk Architectural Desktop: An Advanced Implementation Guide online
at:
www.paulaubin.com


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

ADT is too much of a hassle. I'm the only person
here who uses it. Everyone else using ADT1 as ACAD. Big issue is file
incompatiblity, increased corrupt files and so on. Also, it's not oriented
toward renovation (currently our bread and butter): no built-in
Existing/Demo/New layering/objects. Heck, an addon I used 10 years ago did
that better (Cad***s). No interest by boss in Revit (hardware req/cost). Doubt
we'll change any time soon, even if Adesk pulls a 14 on
us.
Message 32 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

Hey, how come Delmar has your book but Amazon and
B&N don't? I could use your book to find out how you revise a bunch of
custom display reps for each ADT object real quick! <g>


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

I have a client that hired me to do some
customization and training on ADT. Today, I was working on their Wall Styles.
You are right, ADT does not come with a Demo and Exist Wall Style. I set these
up, created Layer Keys for them and built a Tool Palette with a tool for each
style. How long did it take? Let's just say that I have had VCRs that took
longer to setup. It would have been nice if Autodesk had added a demo, and
exist Wall Style out of the box, but hey, now they are setup and it took
little time to do it.  There is not a piece of software out there that
does not require some setup time.

 

--
paul

 

Paul F. Aubin
Buy Mastering Autodesk Architectural Desktop and

Autodesk Architectural Desktop: An Advanced Implementation Guide online
at:
www.paulaubin.com


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

ADT is too much of a hassle. I'm the only
person here who uses it. Everyone else using ADT1 as ACAD. Big issue is file
incompatiblity, increased corrupt files and so on. Also, it's not oriented
toward renovation (currently our bread and butter): no built-in
Existing/Demo/New layering/objects. Heck, an addon I used 10 years ago did
that better (Cad***s). No interest by boss in Revit (hardware req/cost).
Doubt we'll change any time soon, even if Adesk pulls a 14 on
us.
Message 33 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

Amazon has it. My web site links direct to it via
Amazon. Not sure about BN, but I think they are also Amazon. I just got my copy
from the publisher today, so we are shipping now!!!!

 


--
paul

 

Paul F. Aubin
Buy Mastering Autodesk Architectural Desktop and

Autodesk Architectural Desktop: An Advanced Implementation Guide online
at:

href="http://www.paulaubin.com">www.paulaubin.com
Message 34 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

Sorry, but your link takes you to an option on
Amazon that allows you to "pre-order" the book. They say that I will get our
copies sometime in September... sniff.


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Amazon has it. My web site links direct to it via
Amazon. Not sure about BN, but I think they are also Amazon. I just got my
copy from the publisher today, so we are shipping now!!!!

 


--
paul

 

Paul F. Aubin
Buy Mastering Autodesk Architectural Desktop and

Autodesk Architectural Desktop: An Advanced Implementation Guide online
at:

href="http://www.paulaubin.com">www.paulaubin.com
Message 35 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

I draw in both depending on who I am working
for.  I hate working in 2D now as it's too slow.

..........but then I start playing with the 3D
stuff (surface hatching etc) and then I'm gone 🙂

 

Most people recommend starting with the
basic's.  Just use AEC walls windows doors and consider them in plan view
only.

Then as you get used to it you can dig
deeper.

Nathan


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I'm
not sure how other people feel about this, but I seem to spend 50% of my time
trying to figure out how to draw something rather then just drawing it. I
consider myself very knowledgable in Autocad but just tried to do a side job
the "correct" ADT way with 3D modeling and everything and it's taking twice as
long to do it vs. drawing it in 2D! I don't know how everyone elses offices
are but 3/4 of my office struggle with basic AutoCad let alone drawing
everything in 3D. How many of your offices actually use ADT the correct way?

Just wondering if I'm all alone in this or not.

Kevin
Message 36 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

Ah yes. As I mentioned, we modeled the project as normal course of
design/documentation, and because of this I would bring printouts to
construction meetings. The crew loved them. I can recall specifically four
different jobs with four different contractors, that all did the same thing:
they tacked the renderings up in the unfinished spaces with a nail gun. 🙂
There were a few intangibles that came from this: 1) a better repoire with
the contractor resulting in a noticable difference in attitude that the
typical "architect <> contractor" dynamic; and, 2) a higher desire on their
end to build a quality project.

--
chris yanchar | product designer
building solutions division
autodesk, inc.
Message 37 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

> they tacked the renderings up in the unfinished spaces with a nail gun.
:)<



chris

don't you miss those days??


--
steve oyer
DAI
Dallas TX
steve@daiinc.com
Message 37 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

I agree on the subject of architect <> contractor relationship improvement.
Had a recent experience where we would just open the notebook lid and
talk over the details on the spot !
Printouts ? Way too expensive, if you print each usefull detail you
come up with.

chris yanchar - autodesk inc wrote:

>Ah yes. As I mentioned, we modeled the project as normal course of
>design/documentation, and because of this I would bring printouts to
>construction meetings. The crew loved them. I can recall specifically four
>different jobs with four different contractors, that all did the same thing:
>they tacked the renderings up in the unfinished spaces with a nail gun. 🙂
>There were a few intangibles that came from this: 1) a better repoire with
>the contractor resulting in a noticable difference in attitude that the
>typical "architect <> contractor" dynamic; and, 2) a higher desire on their
>end to build a quality project.
>
>--
>chris yanchar | product designer
>building solutions division
>autodesk, inc.
>
>
>
>
Message 39 of 55
betazero
in reply to: kmatis

What exactly do they do with the isometric? I mean my truss company prints an isometric when he does the trusses but I am not sure what the benifit is?



beta
Message 40 of 55
Anonymous
in reply to: kmatis

surely you jest.  A 3D
representation of anything is ten times better at conveying design intent...
[IMHO]

 

have you never seen steel erection/shop drawings in
iso view - helps a ton for reviewing submittals...

 

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