Converting Plines to "Spaces"

[JasonO]

When I want to add a room tag to a space ADT2 requires that I attach the tag to an object. If I draw a Pline around the perimeter of a room and then go and try to convert it to a Space it keeps telling me the polyline is not closed. I know for a fact the way I drew it that is is closed. If I pull the pline off to the side, explode it, and then rejoin the lines into a pline and put it back into the space it works fine. Obviously this is a pain to do and i have since just created my own roomtag block with attributes which I can just insert without going through all this convert to spaces stuff. Anyone know why it does this or experienced similar prolems?

[Anonymous]

Simply snapping to the starting point to end a polyline does not
technically close it. Instead, when you would normally snap to the
starting point, use the "CL" option to close the polyline and end the
command.

On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:18:41 +0000, JasonO
wrote:

>When I want to add a room tag to a space ADT2 requires that I attach the tag to an object. If I draw a Pline around the perimeter of a room and then go and try to convert it to a Space it keeps telling me the polyline is not closed. I know for a fact the way I drew it that is is closed. If I pull the pline off to the side, explode it, and then rejoin the lines into a pline and put it back into the space it works fine. Obviously this is a pain to do and i have since just created my own roomtag block with attributes which I can just insert without going through all this convert to spaces stuff. Anyone know why it does this or experienced similar prolems?

*************************************************************
Please do not send technical requests to me via private email
*************************************************************

Matt Dillon
Assistant Moderator, Autodesk Discussion Groups

The D.C. CADD Company, Inc.
http://www.dccadd.com

[Anonymous]

it keeps telling me the polyline is not closed.


The properties window will tell you whether a polyline is closed or not and
allow you to change it.

Bpoly is a handy command for creating space objects. It's best to use it in
a display configuration that doesn't show door and window openings. You can
create the spaces for an entire floor in short order using bpoly to create
interior polylines and then converting the polylines to spaces.

[JasonO]

Joe,

I tried your bpoly command and it seems to work fine if you've got an enclosed region but what if i've got doors in the space and I freeze them the opening remains and this poses a problem for the hatch boundary. Am I missing something?

[Anonymous]

Curiosity question: How have others been dealing with the BOMA standard
that says that areas should be measured to center of demising walls?
Manually stretching the plines or objects?

--
Brian K. Harder
CAD Manager
RNL DESIGN

Joe B wrote in message
news:8FD1A330B01D71FE1C9D7C8111CD2A68@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
>
> it keeps telling me the polyline is not closed.
>
>
> The properties window will tell you whether a polyline is closed or not
and
> allow you to change it.
>
> Bpoly is a handy command for creating space objects. It's best to use it
in
> a display configuration that doesn't show door and window openings. You
can
> create the spaces for an entire floor in short order using bpoly to create
> interior polylines and then converting the polylines to spaces.
>

[Anonymous]

Brian,

I used to do quite a bit of area calculations to BOMA standards. It was long
before ADT, but I suspect I would do it the same way now.

Since there isn't the intelligence necessary to determine for each wall
where the demising line should be, and in some cases it may vary along the
wall depending upon what is on the other side of the wall, I would
recommend creating the polylines according to BOMA standards and generating
the spaces from them. If the space changes, you can grip edit the space
object to adjust, as long as there are no new vertices that need to be
added. If new vertices become necessary, you'll need to recreate the
polyline (or PEDIT the original) and regenerate the spaces from the new
geometry.

--
************************************************************************
Please do not send technical requests to me via private email
************************************************************************
Matt Dillon
Assistant Moderator, Autodesk Discussion Groups

http://www.dccadd.com

Brian Harder wrote in message
news:88A9E9758C1982BD86DE25FB677775F0@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> Curiosity question: How have others been dealing with the BOMA standard
> that says that areas should be measured to center of demising walls?
> Manually stretching the plines or objects?
>
> --
> Brian K. Harder
> CAD Manager
> RNL DESIGN
>

[m_ayers]

I have found the easiest way is to set the display representation to a reflected view. Unless you have a high door head height, the reflected view will show a header across the door opening. This makes it very easy to use the bpoly command to get your pline.

[Anonymous]

I'm thinking of setting a standard that puts a line component down the
center of all office standard wall styles. Initially, it would be on a
non-plotting layer, but it could also be used on a case by case basis using
entity display to represent fire ratings with various complex
linetypes/layers.

So far as getting bpoly to "find" the center of the walls if necessary,
using this technique, shrinkwrap could temporarily be turned off in Options,
and A-WALL and A-WALL-COMP etc. layers temporarily turned off, and then a
centerline-1line drawing would be left that bpoly would find to create
closed plines. It could probably automated and assigned to a toolbar
button.

Does any of that sound like a worthwhile exercise to commit to a weekend?
Better yet, assign to the new guy that just started? 😉 Teach him all
about wall styles too as a side benefit.

--
Brian K. Harder
CAD Manager
RNL DESIGN

Matt Dillon wrote in message
news:4E2989C5C012A427D0753FC65AD13947@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> Brian,
>
> I used to do quite a bit of area calculations to BOMA standards. It was
long
> before ADT, but I suspect I would do it the same way now.
>
> Since there isn't the intelligence necessary to determine for each wall
> where the demising line should be, and in some cases it may vary along the
> wall depending upon what is on the other side of the wall, I would
> recommend creating the polylines according to BOMA standards and
generating
> the spaces from them. If the space changes, you can grip edit the space
> object to adjust, as long as there are no new vertices that need to be
> added. If new vertices become necessary, you'll need to recreate the
> polyline (or PEDIT the original) and regenerate the spaces from the new
> geometry.
>
> --
> ************************************************************************
> Please do not send technical requests to me via private email
> ************************************************************************
> Matt Dillon
> Assistant Moderator, Autodesk Discussion Groups
>
> http://www.dccadd.com
>
> Brian Harder wrote in message
> news:88A9E9758C1982BD86DE25FB677775F0@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> > Curiosity question: How have others been dealing with the BOMA standard
> > that says that areas should be measured to center of demising walls?
> > Manually stretching the plines or objects?
> >
> > --
> > Brian K. Harder
> > CAD Manager
> > RNL DESIGN
> >
>

[Anonymous]

A trick that I both learned and taught on the fly in a class I had a little
while ago, is that you can effectively "add" vertices to an existing space
through the "space merge" command. Simply add another generic space to the
original one, and make sure that they overlap. Then pick on the original
space, right-click and use the "join" option and then pick the new space.
Because you started with the existing space object, all of your schedule
data remains intact. You now have 2 or more new vertices that you can mess
with in your space object.

Not a direct process, but it can be faster than re-creating the space all
over again...

As to the message from Brian down below... It may be possible (just thinking
aloud here) to use the "sketch" representation of your walls to generate the
spaces in a design... Its effectiveness would depend on what justification
you used to insert your walls, but it is a possibility. It could be that the
bpoly command will not recognize the sketch rep of a wall. Again, just
thinking on the keyboard here.... If I get a chance I will try it out, but
that may not come for a while.

--
Joe Eichenseer
Senior Architectural Specialist
Avatech Solutions
Denver, CO
jeichenseer@avat.com
"Matt Dillon" wrote in message
news:4E2989C5C012A427D0753FC65AD13947@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> Brian,
>
> I used to do quite a bit of area calculations to BOMA standards. It was
long
> before ADT, but I suspect I would do it the same way now.
>
> Since there isn't the intelligence necessary to determine for each wall
> where the demising line should be, and in some cases it may vary along the
> wall depending upon what is on the other side of the wall, I would
> recommend creating the polylines according to BOMA standards and
generating
> the spaces from them. If the space changes, you can grip edit the space
> object to adjust, as long as there are no new vertices that need to be
> added. If new vertices become necessary, you'll need to recreate the
> polyline (or PEDIT the original) and regenerate the spaces from the new
> geometry.
>
> --
> ************************************************************************
> Please do not send technical requests to me via private email
> ************************************************************************
> Matt Dillon
> Assistant Moderator, Autodesk Discussion Groups
>
> http://www.dccadd.com
>
> Brian Harder wrote in message
> news:88A9E9758C1982BD86DE25FB677775F0@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> > Curiosity question: How have others been dealing with the BOMA standard
> > that says that areas should be measured to center of demising walls?
> > Manually stretching the plines or objects?
> >
> > --
> > Brian K. Harder
> > CAD Manager
> > RNL DESIGN
> >
>

[Anonymous]

But what about those cases where a single wall might be a demising wall for
1/3 of it's length, then be facing a corridor situation for another 1/3 and
then be part of a vertical penetration or exterior wall (with glazing)? The
area pline would have to have several jogs to different parts of the wall to
accomodate the different conditions.

--
************************************************************************
Please do not send technical requests to me via private email
************************************************************************
Matt Dillon
Assistant Moderator, Autodesk Discussion Groups

http://www.dccadd.com

Brian Harder wrote in message
news:C4B016444189B4129B2C1CE325A769A3@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> I'm thinking of setting a standard that puts a line component down the
> center of all office standard wall styles. Initially, it would be on a
> non-plotting layer, but it could also be used on a case by case basis
using
> entity display to represent fire ratings with various complex
> linetypes/layers.
>
> So far as getting bpoly to "find" the center of the walls if necessary,
> using this technique, shrinkwrap could temporarily be turned off in
Options,
> and A-WALL and A-WALL-COMP etc. layers temporarily turned off, and then a
> centerline-1line drawing would be left that bpoly would find to create
> closed plines. It could probably automated and assigned to a toolbar
> button.
>
> Does any of that sound like a worthwhile exercise to commit to a weekend?
> Better yet, assign to the new guy that just started? 😉 Teach him all
> about wall styles too as a side benefit.
>
> --
> Brian K. Harder
> CAD Manager
> RNL DESIGN
>
> Matt Dillon wrote in message
> news:4E2989C5C012A427D0753FC65AD13947@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> > Brian,
> >
> > I used to do quite a bit of area calculations to BOMA standards. It was
> long
> > before ADT, but I suspect I would do it the same way now.
> >
> > Since there isn't the intelligence necessary to determine for each wall
> > where the demising line should be, and in some cases it may vary along
the
> > wall depending upon what is on the other side of the wall, I would
> > recommend creating the polylines according to BOMA standards and
> generating
> > the spaces from them. If the space changes, you can grip edit the space
> > object to adjust, as long as there are no new vertices that need to be
> > added. If new vertices become necessary, you'll need to recreate the
> > polyline (or PEDIT the original) and regenerate the spaces from the new
> > geometry.
> >
> > --
> > ************************************************************************
> > Please do not send technical requests to me via private email
> > ************************************************************************
> > Matt Dillon
> > Assistant Moderator, Autodesk Discussion Groups
> >
> > http://www.dccadd.com
> >
> > Brian Harder wrote in message
> > news:88A9E9758C1982BD86DE25FB677775F0@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> > > Curiosity question: How have others been dealing with the BOMA
standard
> > > that says that areas should be measured to center of demising walls?
> > > Manually stretching the plines or objects?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Brian K. Harder
> > > CAD Manager
> > > RNL DESIGN
> > >
> >
>

[Anonymous]

Joe,

I just tried the sketch rep idea and it's a heck of a lot easier, but you're
right, it depends on how the wall is justified. Nice idea.

--
Brian K. Harder
CAD Manager
RNL DESIGN

Joe Eichenseer wrote in message
news:6A6E0A1952C6C94D0CDFA88B8AFAF1B9@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
>
> As to the message from Brian down below... It may be possible (just
thinking
> aloud here) to use the "sketch" representation of your walls to generate
the
> spaces in a design... Its effectiveness would depend on what justification
> you used to insert your walls, but it is a possibility. It could be that
the
> bpoly command will not recognize the sketch rep of a wall. Again, just
> thinking on the keyboard here.... If I get a chance I will try it out, but
> that may not come for a while.
>
> --
> Joe Eichenseer
> Senior Architectural Specialist
> Avatech Solutions
> Denver, CO
> jeichenseer@avat.com

[Anonymous]

True. ;-(

--
Brian K. Harder
CAD Manager
RNL DESIGN

Matt Dillon wrote in message
news:30558D941A6E531E1259B8E527737214@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> But what about those cases where a single wall might be a demising wall
for
> 1/3 of it's length, then be facing a corridor situation for another 1/3
and
> then be part of a vertical penetration or exterior wall (with glazing)?
The
> area pline would have to have several jogs to different parts of the wall
to
> accomodate the different conditions.
>
> --
> ************************************************************************
> Please do not send technical requests to me via private email
> ************************************************************************
> Matt Dillon
> Assistant Moderator, Autodesk Discussion Groups
>
> http://www.dccadd.com
>
> Brian Harder wrote in message
> news:C4B016444189B4129B2C1CE325A769A3@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> > I'm thinking of setting a standard that puts a line component down the
> > center of all office standard wall styles. Initially, it would be on a
> > non-plotting layer, but it could also be used on a case by case basis
> using
> > entity display to represent fire ratings with various complex
> > linetypes/layers.
> >
> > So far as getting bpoly to "find" the center of the walls if necessary,
> > using this technique, shrinkwrap could temporarily be turned off in
> Options,
> > and A-WALL and A-WALL-COMP etc. layers temporarily turned off, and then
a
> > centerline-1line drawing would be left that bpoly would find to create
> > closed plines. It could probably automated and assigned to a toolbar
> > button.
> >
> > Does any of that sound like a worthwhile exercise to commit to a
weekend?
> > Better yet, assign to the new guy that just started? 😉 Teach him all
> > about wall styles too as a side benefit.
> >
> > --
> > Brian K. Harder
> > CAD Manager
> > RNL DESIGN
> >
> > Matt Dillon wrote in message
> > news:4E2989C5C012A427D0753FC65AD13947@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> > > Brian,
> > >
> > > I used to do quite a bit of area calculations to BOMA standards. It
was
> > long
> > > before ADT, but I suspect I would do it the same way now.
> > >
> > > Since there isn't the intelligence necessary to determine for each
wall
> > > where the demising line should be, and in some cases it may vary along
> the
> > > wall depending upon what is on the other side of the wall, I would
> > > recommend creating the polylines according to BOMA standards and
> > generating
> > > the spaces from them. If the space changes, you can grip edit the
space
> > > object to adjust, as long as there are no new vertices that need to be
> > > added. If new vertices become necessary, you'll need to recreate the
> > > polyline (or PEDIT the original) and regenerate the spaces from the
new
> > > geometry.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
************************************************************************
> > > Please do not send technical requests to me via private email
> > >
************************************************************************
> > > Matt Dillon
> > > Assistant Moderator, Autodesk Discussion Groups
> > >
> > > http://www.dccadd.com
> > >
> > > Brian Harder wrote in message
> > > news:88A9E9758C1982BD86DE25FB677775F0@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> > > > Curiosity question: How have others been dealing with the BOMA
> standard
> > > > that says that areas should be measured to center of demising walls?
> > > > Manually stretching the plines or objects?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Brian K. Harder
> > > > CAD Manager
> > > > RNL DESIGN
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Anonymous]

This dwf shows what I'm talking about with putting a complex linetype in the
wall style definition. It's really small, so hopefully I won't get a
spanking.

--
Brian K. Harder
CAD Manager
RNL DESIGN

Brian Harder wrote in message
news:54EEAD4236179D10A9B6DAB033511DB2@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> Joe,
>
> I just tried the sketch rep idea and it's a heck of a lot easier, but
you're
> right, it depends on how the wall is justified. Nice idea.
>
> --
> Brian K. Harder
> CAD Manager
> RNL DESIGN
>
> Joe Eichenseer wrote in message
> news:6A6E0A1952C6C94D0CDFA88B8AFAF1B9@in.WebX.SaUCah8kaAW...
> >
> > As to the message from Brian down below... It may be possible (just
> thinking
> > aloud here) to use the "sketch" representation of your walls to generate
> the
> > spaces in a design... Its effectiveness would depend on what
justification
> > you used to insert your walls, but it is a possibility. It could be that
> the
> > bpoly command will not recognize the sketch rep of a wall. Again, just
> > thinking on the keyboard here.... If I get a chance I will try it out,
but
> > that may not come for a while.
> >
> > --
> > Joe Eichenseer
> > Senior Architectural Specialist
> > Avatech Solutions
> > Denver, CO
> > jeichenseer@avat.com
>