AutoSketch

Reply
*L, Chris
Message 11 of 61 (218 Views)

Re:

11-22-2001 11:50 AM in reply to: *Alm, H.
Gerhard,
Your observations are astounding. Isn't that something. As usual, those who KNOW,
don't get asked. Those who contributed in this group get ignored. You and others
here have pretty much identified every issue that needed repair and look what they
do ?

I caught the discussion of QC8 in the other group. When I went to look at the promo
stuff, all I saw was how it would be real easy for an MS Office user to draw with
it. I had visions of the stupid paper clip showing up in the program. Whooopeeee!

Maybe they think that the older AS users will cave in and buy ACad lite.... HA!

I too work for a company that had been waiting to see what would happen to V8. If
it fixed the so "Clearly Defined" and "Miniscule" issues that kept it from being an
excellent 2d application, the company would have bought into it.

I am already going to assume that there will be the SAME discussions about line
widths and such come version 9. Oh, and then they'll just change it completely so
the already established user base will be confused and upset like all those who
hated the change from the 2.1 days.

That's ok. Plenty of other fish in the sea. prices have been coming down too.

At least when we all bail out, our Sketch DWG's will be easily TRANSFERED to a
DIFFERENT PROGRAM !

Seeya, AutoD..........wouldn't want to be Ya !

Chris L



Gerhard Selzer wrote:

> Len,
>
> Thanks.
> Read the promotional material and endorsements.
> Did not recognize any of those names as ever being
> helpful contributors to this discussion group as
> actual AutoSketch users.
> Is it to naive for me to assume that I and the others
> in this group as potential buyer would be much more
> influenced by an evaluation by you and the other pros
> in this group who have helped for many years by their
> advice to solve problems?
> Could AutoSketch not have sent you and, let's say ten
> others, complimentary copies of R8.0 and find possible
> bugs before the November release than go through another
> R7.0 dilemma again?
> Just a belated thought.
>
> Gerhard
>
> "L. Rafuse" wrote:
> >
> > http://www3.autodesk.com/adsk/section/0,,985897-123112,00.html
> >
> > 6.1 When will AutoSketch 8 be available?
> >
> > The new version becomes available in November 2001.
> >
> > --
> > Len Rafuse
> > Vision Engineering
> >
> > H. Alm wrote:
> >
> > >So when will AutoSketch 8 be released?
> > >
> > >(It's already reference on AutoDesk support pages. Just search for
> > >AutoSketch 8)
> > >
> > >or
> > >
> > >http://support.autodesk.com/enu/kdnview.asp?QueryText=autosketch&k2dockey=d%
> > >3A%5Cesupport%5Cknowledgebase%5Chtml%5C100022%2Ehtm%40kdn&k2url=http%3A%2F%2
> > >Fsupport01%2Eautodesk%2Ecom%2Fenu%2Fknowledgebase%2Fhtml%2F100022%2Ehtm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
*Jackson, Paul
Message 12 of 61 (218 Views)

Re:

11-22-2001 01:19 PM in reply to: *Alm, H.
Gidday John

I know nothing about pricing, upgrading or patchs.

However, compared to LT, Sketch does the same stuff at a fraction of the
price, and Sketch is still cheaper than the LT upgrade pricing. So i would
not consider upgrade pricing on a high value, low priced item would be
considered by Autodesk.

Paul

"John Nolte" wrote in message
news:2D7ED8BC2E915E80E688789FF180C74B@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> If the bugs were fixed in V8, will registered users of V7 get either a
free
> upgrade or a patch? I have stayed away from V7 because of the bugs, and
> recent posts from Autodesk Product Mgmt have said they were concerned
about
> the problems in V7. Product descriptions of V8 state there are no special
> upgrade prices.
>
> John
>
> "Paul Jackson" wrote in message
> news:8B82AC0EDC7F5CB3EA5806605A4F481F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Hello Ric
> >
> > I think users will find all of the bugs which were present in V7 have
been
> > fixed in 8. The bugs WERE of concern to Autodesk and this forum was
> > monitored for details but it would not have been proper to make
> > announcements on a news group as it would end up as battering ram
against
> > Autodesk.
> >
> > I do not work for Autodesk and I am probably going out on a limb making
> > these statements, but I do not want this thread to deteriorate with
> > hypothetical banter.
> >
> > Send your wish list to me and I might just know where to send it, along
> with
> > mine.
> >
> > Paul Jackson
> > Resolve Computing [Australia]
> >
> > "Ric Norris" wrote in message
> > news:B9F167DF98157E44E96702BB92F7D84D@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > Received my QuickCAD R8 evaluation copy from AutoDesk....thankyou.
> There
> > is
> > > nothing in
> > > there to convince my management to update 210 licences from QuickCAD
> > version
> > > 7.
> > >
> > > At least the NT registry issues have been fixed....and the User Guide
in
> > > .PDF format will be great for my training sessions with V7. The
> backward
> > > compatibility is also a fine feature....well, between 7 & 8
> > anyway....shame
> > > I have no reason to use 8.
> > >
> > > A real pity the line width issue hasn't been resolved....like I have
> said
> > > over & over again, the "Wish List" is a complete waste of time....!!!!
> > >
> > > Sorry.
> > >
> > > Ric Norris.
> > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/cavedrawings/index.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "H. Alm" wrote in message
> > > news:03E00BE1F80279EB85BAABAEE6A0F085@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > So when will AutoSketch 8 be released?
> > > >
> > > > (It's already reference on AutoDesk support pages. Just search for
> > > > AutoSketch 8)
> > > >
> > > > or
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://support.autodesk.com/enu/kdnview.asp?QueryText=autosketch&k2dockey=d%
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
3A%5Cesupport%5Cknowledgebase%5Chtml%5C100022%2Ehtm%40kdn&k2url=http%3A%2F%2
> > > >
> Fsupport01%2Eautodesk%2Ecom%2Fenu%2Fknowledgebase%2Fhtml%2F100022%2Ehtm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
*Norris, Ric
Message 13 of 61 (218 Views)

Re:

11-22-2001 07:20 PM in reply to: *Alm, H.
Hi Paul,

As you know, myself and many others have been making a "wish list" for the
last 2 years.....wishes that STILL haven't been realised in QC R8. It is
not hypothetical banter to say that nothing much has changed with the new
release of QuickCAD...it is fact. Maybe a few bugs have been fixed and if
it was of real "concern" to AutoDesk, they would have brought out some kind
of patch. And they have....QuickCAD R8....!!!!

The interface is still the same....the same as Version 6....people would
like to see a change, something different....otherwise it's boring...seeing
the same old, same old. There are no new bells & whistles.

No-one from AutoDesk has listened through this forum and AUGI is a waste of
time...for a start you have to be member before you can review
"wishes"....who wants to be a member of an organisation that doesn't
listen..??

As far I am concerned, QuickCAD R8 is nothing but a patch that ADesk should
have brought out 18 months ago...and a rather expensive patch at
that....around A$100 from what I have been told. Mind you, it is great
value for someone that doesn't know the history of QuickCAD and is new to
the software. But that doesn't make the veteran users feel any good at all.

Finally....Paul....why would we send a wish list to you...?? If YOUR wishes
haven't been granted, why would ours...?? And if they were granted, do we
have to wait another 2 years....??...we have all been wishing for the last
18 months.

It will be interesting to see how different AS8 is to AS7....I haven't
received my eval copy yet.

Ric Norris.
http://users.bigpond.net.au/cavedrawings/index.html


"Paul Jackson" wrote in message
news:8B82AC0EDC7F5CB3EA5806605A4F481F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Hello Ric
>
> I think users will find all of the bugs which were present in V7 have been
> fixed in 8. The bugs WERE of concern to Autodesk and this forum was
> monitored for details but it would not have been proper to make
> announcements on a news group as it would end up as battering ram against
> Autodesk.
>
> I do not work for Autodesk and I am probably going out on a limb making
> these statements, but I do not want this thread to deteriorate with
> hypothetical banter.
>
> Send your wish list to me and I might just know where to send it, along
with
> mine.
>
> Paul Jackson
> Resolve Computing [Australia]
>
> "Ric Norris" wrote in message
> news:B9F167DF98157E44E96702BB92F7D84D@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Received my QuickCAD R8 evaluation copy from AutoDesk....thankyou.
There
> is
> > nothing in
> > there to convince my management to update 210 licences from QuickCAD
> version
> > 7.
> >
> > At least the NT registry issues have been fixed....and the User Guide in
> > .PDF format will be great for my training sessions with V7. The
backward
> > compatibility is also a fine feature....well, between 7 & 8
> anyway....shame
> > I have no reason to use 8.
> >
> > A real pity the line width issue hasn't been resolved....like I have
said
> > over & over again, the "Wish List" is a complete waste of time....!!!!
> >
> > Sorry.
> >
> > Ric Norris.
> > http://users.bigpond.net.au/cavedrawings/index.html
> >
> >
> >
> > "H. Alm" wrote in message
> > news:03E00BE1F80279EB85BAABAEE6A0F085@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > So when will AutoSketch 8 be released?
> > >
> > > (It's already reference on AutoDesk support pages. Just search for
> > > AutoSketch 8)
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://support.autodesk.com/enu/kdnview.asp?QueryText=autosketch&k2dockey=d%
> > >
> >
>
3A%5Cesupport%5Cknowledgebase%5Chtml%5C100022%2Ehtm%40kdn&k2url=http%3A%2F%2
> > >
Fsupport01%2Eautodesk%2Ecom%2Fenu%2Fknowledgebase%2Fhtml%2F100022%2Ehtm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
*Rafuse, L.
Message 14 of 61 (218 Views)

Re:

11-22-2001 09:09 PM in reply to: *Alm, H.
No. I did not recognize the commentors.

Since there are no compelling new features to make me want to buy one to try it, I will wait and see what complaints I hear in the newsgroup.

--
Len Rafuse
Vision Engineering



Gerhard Selzer wrote:

>Len,
>
>Thanks.
>Read the promotional material and endorsements.
>Did not recognize any of those names as ever being
>helpful contributors to this discussion group as
>actual AutoSketch users.
>Is it to naive for me to assume that I and the others
>in this group as potential buyer would be much more
>influenced by an evaluation by you and the other pros
>in this group who have helped for many years by their
>advice to solve problems?
>Could AutoSketch not have sent you and, let's say ten
>others, complimentary copies of R8.0 and find possible
>bugs before the November release than go through another
>R7.0 dilemma again?
>Just a belated thought.
>
>Gerhard
>
*CL
Message 15 of 61 (218 Views)

Re:

11-22-2001 10:24 PM in reply to: *Alm, H.
Ric Norris wrote:

(snip) Maybe a few bugs have been fixed and if it was of real "concern" to
AutoDesk, they would have brought out some kind of patch. And they
have....QuickCAD R8....!!!!

Ya, Like I am going to spend $100 to "Find Out" if I can now put my HP4000, one
of the most common laser printers on earth back in the network. (crash, crash,
crash of AS)

They appear to not even be interested in "Listing" the "Bugs" they have fixed.

CL
*Selzer, Gerhard
Message 16 of 61 (218 Views)

Re:

11-23-2001 02:04 AM in reply to: *Alm, H.
Len,

Your reason is good enough for me.

Had followed your previous suggestion, never got R7,
stuck with my reliable R6.01 and Paul's HOAH bible.

Really wanted to do something in the last two months to
stimulate the economy and was prepared after three years
to venture into treacherous waters but better wait now
until Paul publishes his updated instructions on R8.
Compared to you guys and Pros, I will always be an on
advice dependent newbie but without any regrets.

Gerhard

"L. Rafuse" wrote:
>
> No. I did not recognize the commentors.
>
> Since there are no compelling new features to make me want to buy one to try it, I will wait and see what complaints I hear in the newsgroup.
>
> --
> Len Rafuse
> Vision Engineering
>
> Gerhard Selzer wrote:
>
> >Len,
> >
> >Thanks.
> >Read the promotional material and endorsements.
> >Did not recognize any of those names as ever being
> >helpful contributors to this discussion group as
> >actual AutoSketch users.
> >Is it to naive for me to assume that I and the others
> >in this group as potential buyer would be much more
> >influenced by an evaluation by you and the other pros
> >in this group who have helped for many years by their
> >advice to solve problems?
> >Could AutoSketch not have sent you and, let's say ten
> >others, complimentary copies of R8.0 and find possible
> >bugs before the November release than go through another
> >R7.0 dilemma again?
> >Just a belated thought.
> >
> >Gerhard
> >
*Pike, B
Message 17 of 61 (218 Views)

Re:

11-23-2001 08:47 AM in reply to: *Alm, H.
Paul

Wishlist is

MACROS, MACROS, MACROS. Just like Drafix used to have. Pleeeease.

B Pike

PS

A few less bugs would be good also.



"Paul Jackson" wrote in message
news:8B82AC0EDC7F5CB3EA5806605A4F481F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Hello Ric
>
> I think users will find all of the bugs which were present in V7 have been
> fixed in 8. The bugs WERE of concern to Autodesk and this forum was
> monitored for details but it would not have been proper to make
> announcements on a news group as it would end up as battering ram against
> Autodesk.
>
> I do not work for Autodesk and I am probably going out on a limb making
> these statements, but I do not want this thread to deteriorate with
> hypothetical banter.
>
> Send your wish list to me and I might just know where to send it, along
with
> mine.
>
> Paul Jackson
> Resolve Computing [Australia]
>
> "Ric Norris" wrote in message
> news:B9F167DF98157E44E96702BB92F7D84D@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Received my QuickCAD R8 evaluation copy from AutoDesk....thankyou.
There
> is
> > nothing in
> > there to convince my management to update 210 licences from QuickCAD
> version
> > 7.
> >
> > At least the NT registry issues have been fixed....and the User Guide in
> > .PDF format will be great for my training sessions with V7. The
backward
> > compatibility is also a fine feature....well, between 7 & 8
> anyway....shame
> > I have no reason to use 8.
> >
> > A real pity the line width issue hasn't been resolved....like I have
said
> > over & over again, the "Wish List" is a complete waste of time....!!!!
> >
> > Sorry.
> >
> > Ric Norris.
> > http://users.bigpond.net.au/cavedrawings/index.html
> >
> >
> >
> > "H. Alm" wrote in message
> > news:03E00BE1F80279EB85BAABAEE6A0F085@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > So when will AutoSketch 8 be released?
> > >
> > > (It's already reference on AutoDesk support pages. Just search for
> > > AutoSketch 8)
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://support.autodesk.com/enu/kdnview.asp?QueryText=autosketch&k2dockey=d%
> > >
> >
>
3A%5Cesupport%5Cknowledgebase%5Chtml%5C100022%2Ehtm%40kdn&k2url=http%3A%2F%2
> > >
Fsupport01%2Eautodesk%2Ecom%2Fenu%2Fknowledgebase%2Fhtml%2F100022%2Ehtm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
*Selzer, Gerhard
Message 18 of 61 (218 Views)

Re:

11-23-2001 11:32 AM in reply to: *Alm, H.
Barry,

Please help and briefly explain to an eternal newbie like
myself what macros did in Drafix.
I have been exposed to chickenpox, measles, scarlet fever and
recently to the SirCan virus but never to MACROS.
My limited computer and R5, R6 experience and their reference
books give no indication what macros actually is and what I am
missing and what one should have.
Found the enclosed web site and description and I am not quite
sure if this is the implied shortcut for repetitive tasks you
are referring to. Could that be incorporated into R6.01 at this
point?

http://www.macros.com/

Gerhard

P.S. At my age, I am not too embarrassed to show my ignorance.



B Pike wrote:
>
> Paul
>
> Wishlist is
>
> MACROS, MACROS, MACROS. Just like Drafix used to have. Pleeeease.
>
> B Pike
>
> PS
>
> A few less bugs would be good also.
>
> "Paul Jackson" wrote in message
> news:8B82AC0EDC7F5CB3EA5806605A4F481F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > Hello Ric
> >
> > I think users will find all of the bugs which were present in V7 have been
> > fixed in 8. The bugs WERE of concern to Autodesk and this forum was
> > monitored for details but it would not have been proper to make
> > announcements on a news group as it would end up as battering ram against
> > Autodesk.
> >
> > I do not work for Autodesk and I am probably going out on a limb making
> > these statements, but I do not want this thread to deteriorate with
> > hypothetical banter.
> >
> > Send your wish list to me and I might just know where to send it, along
> with
> > mine.
> >
> > Paul Jackson
> > Resolve Computing [Australia]
> >
> > "Ric Norris" wrote in message
> > news:B9F167DF98157E44E96702BB92F7D84D@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > Received my QuickCAD R8 evaluation copy from AutoDesk....thankyou.
> There
> > is
> > > nothing in
> > > there to convince my management to update 210 licences from QuickCAD
> > version
> > > 7.
> > >
> > > At least the NT registry issues have been fixed....and the User Guide in
> > > .PDF format will be great for my training sessions with V7. The
> backward
> > > compatibility is also a fine feature....well, between 7 & 8
> > anyway....shame
> > > I have no reason to use 8.
> > >
> > > A real pity the line width issue hasn't been resolved....like I have
> said
> > > over & over again, the "Wish List" is a complete waste of time....!!!!
> > >
> > > Sorry.
> > >
> > > Ric Norris.
> > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/cavedrawings/index.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "H. Alm" wrote in message
> > > news:03E00BE1F80279EB85BAABAEE6A0F085@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > So when will AutoSketch 8 be released?
> > > >
> > > > (It's already reference on AutoDesk support pages. Just search for
> > > > AutoSketch 8)
> > > >
> > > > or
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://support.autodesk.com/enu/kdnview.asp?QueryText=autosketch&k2dockey=d%
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 3A%5Cesupport%5Cknowledgebase%5Chtml%5C100022%2Ehtm%40kdn&k2url=http%3A%2F%2
> > > >
> Fsupport01%2Eautodesk%2Ecom%2Fenu%2Fknowledgebase%2Fhtml%2F100022%2Ehtm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
*Pike, B
Message 19 of 61 (218 Views)

Re:

11-25-2001 06:40 AM in reply to: *Alm, H.
Gerhard

Macros in Drafix gave you the same functionality that macros in MS Word or
Excel do - that is they let you write your own little "routine" or programs
to do repetitive key strokes or mouse clicks.

For instance, I had about 20 of these, some being:-

Layer control toolbar buttons - several toolbar buttons that would change
the layer assigned to that button to current - meant that 1 mouse click to
change, not having to scroll through a list.

Text on an arc - this would align any text around the inside or outside of
an arc - centred about the arc's midpoint - not used that often though, but
the effects were funky.

An instant delete button - if this button was clicked thereafter any entity
clicked on would immediately be deleted.

Instant layer set-up - one click would set-up any new drawing to a standard
group of layers.

Instant database field set-up - one click and database field would be set-up
to a standard.

Instant selection of objects in an area - this does what dragging your mouse
from right to left does now - selects all objects the window crosses.

Graph drawing - would draw a line to a mathematical function, like a
parabola, after you entered some variables.

Drafix supplied hundreds of macros with their software, all were editable.

I've tried running the macros with AS but no go.

As far as getting macros to run with AS, try Paul Jackson. He has a "Power
Pack" of attachments for AS that give it extra functionality. I haven't got
it though, as I think for what I do it wouldn't help a lot, but it may be of
use to you. www.resolv.com.au

I will check out the www.macros.com site later.

Your comment about not being embarrassed at your age - this is heartening -
it sound as I may not be the oldest person on the newsgroup any more!!!

All the best

Barry

"Gerhard Selzer" wrote in message
news:3BFF14E5.AC3653B1@bellsouth.net...
> Barry,
>
> Please help and briefly explain to an eternal newbie like
> myself what macros did in Drafix.
> I have been exposed to chickenpox, measles, scarlet fever and
> recently to the SirCan virus but never to MACROS.
> My limited computer and R5, R6 experience and their reference
> books give no indication what macros actually is and what I am
> missing and what one should have.
> Found the enclosed web site and description and I am not quite
> sure if this is the implied shortcut for repetitive tasks you
> are referring to. Could that be incorporated into R6.01 at this
> point?
>
> http://www.macros.com/
>
> Gerhard
>
> P.S. At my age, I am not too embarrassed to show my ignorance.
>
>
>
> B Pike wrote:
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > Wishlist is
> >
> > MACROS, MACROS, MACROS. Just like Drafix used to have. Pleeeease.
> >
> > B Pike
> >
> > PS
> >
> > A few less bugs would be good also.
> >
> > "Paul Jackson" wrote in message
> > news:8B82AC0EDC7F5CB3EA5806605A4F481F@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > Hello Ric
> > >
> > > I think users will find all of the bugs which were present in V7 have
been
> > > fixed in 8. The bugs WERE of concern to Autodesk and this forum was
> > > monitored for details but it would not have been proper to make
> > > announcements on a news group as it would end up as battering ram
against
> > > Autodesk.
> > >
> > > I do not work for Autodesk and I am probably going out on a limb
making
> > > these statements, but I do not want this thread to deteriorate with
> > > hypothetical banter.
> > >
> > > Send your wish list to me and I might just know where to send it,
along
> > with
> > > mine.
> > >
> > > Paul Jackson
> > > Resolve Computing [Australia]
> > >
> > > "Ric Norris" wrote in message
> > > news:B9F167DF98157E44E96702BB92F7D84D@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > Received my QuickCAD R8 evaluation copy from AutoDesk....thankyou.
> > There
> > > is
> > > > nothing in
> > > > there to convince my management to update 210 licences from QuickCAD
> > > version
> > > > 7.
> > > >
> > > > At least the NT registry issues have been fixed....and the User
Guide in
> > > > .PDF format will be great for my training sessions with V7. The
> > backward
> > > > compatibility is also a fine feature....well, between 7 & 8
> > > anyway....shame
> > > > I have no reason to use 8.
> > > >
> > > > A real pity the line width issue hasn't been resolved....like I have
> > said
> > > > over & over again, the "Wish List" is a complete waste of
time....!!!!
> > > >
> > > > Sorry.
> > > >
> > > > Ric Norris.
> > > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/cavedrawings/index.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "H. Alm" wrote in message
> > > > news:03E00BE1F80279EB85BAABAEE6A0F085@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> > > > > So when will AutoSketch 8 be released?
> > > > >
> > > > > (It's already reference on AutoDesk support pages. Just search for
> > > > > AutoSketch 8)
> > > > >
> > > > > or
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
http://support.autodesk.com/enu/kdnview.asp?QueryText=autosketch&k2dockey=d%
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
3A%5Cesupport%5Cknowledgebase%5Chtml%5C100022%2Ehtm%40kdn&k2url=http%3A%2F%2
> > > > >
> > Fsupport01%2Eautodesk%2Ecom%2Fenu%2Fknowledgebase%2Fhtml%2F100022%2Ehtm
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
*Howe, Graham
Message 20 of 61 (218 Views)

Re:

11-25-2001 07:21 AM in reply to: *Alm, H.
In message <3F6BAA0EB1452671CAC4A36670AA89B6@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb>, B
Pike writes
>Macros in Drafix
Is Drafix still available?
--
Graham Howe mail: (ghowe@mcb.net)
Home Web site: http://www.homepages.mcb.net/howe/

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