On reopen, objects moved, grips misaligned

[Myno]

Been working several days with a single file, with (little to) no trouble.  Saved, exited, re-entered AutoCAD for Mac, re-opened the DWG file.  Discovered that several objects (all on a single layer) have moved from their last saved locations.  When selected, each object highlights "correctly" in-place... in the wrong place to which it had moved.  But the grips appear in the original location, where I had left the object when I saved and exited.  So not only have the objects moved without any command on my part (other than closing and re-opening the app and file), but the grips are now mis-aligned with the objects.  The thumbnail that appears in the Finder for the DWG file shows the objects in their correct locations, but open the file and they have moved elsewhere.

Has this been seen before?  I searched the forum but did not find a similar entry.

The file began life as a DXF file, generated by APTSRNUSNTK (Another Program That Shall Remain Namelss Unless Someone Needs To Know) on a PC, imported into AutoCAD for Mac.  I have noticed that objects arising from that DXF file are not displayed with a full set of grips, so I have deleted most of those original objects, replacing them with new ones created via AutoCAD for Mac, and these new objects show with full grip sets.  The objects that have moved are new ones generated by AutoCAD for Mac.

Using Time Machine, I was able to obtain a copy of the file from 30 minutes before the file was last saved.  That prior copy contains the layer with the bad objects, but only one of the objects is wrongly located and shows the mismatched grips upon selection.  (That copy file's thumbnail does not have the layer displayed.)  Another Time Machine copy, from an hour earlier, appears to be uncorrupted, but the objects in question then were in a different layer and had not yet been moved to their final locaitons.  I am willing to share these files, and provide further instructions on how to identify the offending layer and objects, if that would help.

I'm 6 days into my trial evaluation of AutoCAD for Mac, and frankly hope that file corruption is not a common event here. Even more frankly, I'm hoping that there is some recommended process I can go through, like exporting the file to DXF, and re-importing it, that would clean up such corruptions.  Any tested and trustworthy suggestions out there?

Modulo this one major issue, I'm quite impressed with the package, and how easy it has been for me to adapt to using it, from knowledge of another CAD system.

Thanks for you attention to this matter. 

[maxim_k]

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@Myno wrote:

....I am willing to share these files, and provide further instructions on how to identify the offending layer and objects, if that would help.

 ............

Thanks for you attention to this matter. 

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So, could you share these files? Without them it is practically impossible to investigate the problem. BTW I have never had such problem.

Maxim

[Myno]

Thank you for your interest.  There are 3 files.

KingBedSet04_1543hrs.dwg

KingBedSet04_1510hrs.dwg

KingBedSet04_1400hrs.dwg

1543 (3:43 PM) is the one I first noticed the problem with.  The bad layer is "bed 08 sides".  It comprises almost all of the white elements in the drawing.  Of the 7 parts in that layer, the problems are with the 4 small 2x4 pieces.  For example, the short white 2x4 piece near the NE corner of the drawing.  Click on it, and notice that the grips do not line up with the white body of the part.  The grips appear to be located above the end of the green 2x6... which is where the white 2x4 part SHOULD BE.  Similar errors occur for the other 3 short 2x4 pieces on that layer, though their positioning errors are different from that first piece.

1510 (3:10 PM) has only a single problem.  It is the very same layer as in file 1543, but it has a different name: "pedestal sides".  (I had not yet renamed that layer "bed 08 sides".)  That layer is not presently visible in the drawing.  Make it visible.  See that the same short white 2x4 piece is incorrectly placed, but the other 3 are in their correct positions.  The grip misalignment only occurs for that one bad part.

1400 (2:00 PM) appears to be uncorrupted.  The 4 short white 2x4 parts are on the layer they originally came from, which is called "pedestal side braces".  I repositioned these 4 pieces, and moved them to a different layer, in the process of this file becoming 1510, and then 1543.

Please let me know if there is more I can share to assist in debugging this situation.

[maxim_k]

Hi,

Yes, I see the problem, but can not figure out how you got such result.

It is interesting, that if you copy this 3dsolid with "strange placed grips" to a new file, the behavior of the grips retains the same.

Also I noticed that if I select one of the corner (or side) grips and pick with mouse for the second time - the solid "moved" to the grips, and everything become as it should be.

Maxim

[Myno]

I thank you for your investigations.

I will try out your fix when I am again awake!

As for how the file came to be that way, it is exactly as I said.  The file was fine.  I closed AutoCAD.  I re-opened AutoCAD, and the file was corrupt.  The strangest thing is that the Time Machine saved version from 30 minutes earlier shows (some of) the error, yet my working copy did not exhibit any problem until I exited and re-entered AutoCAD.

Sigh...

Glad to hear that this is a rare occurrence.  Likely some DXF => DWG issue, so does not arise when working purely in AutoCAD.  Wish I knew more, but will probably have to leave it there.

Is there some special procedure to inform AutoDesk about this bug, or does that happen automatically by my posting here?

[maxim_k]

I already sent DWG file (not yours, but created with copy-paste) with these strange solid's grips for further investigation.

Maxim

[Myno]

Maxim,

Thanks for sending this on.

I've now tried your "fix", and it works... sometimes.  Appears to depend on which grip you click twice.  (Some change the shape of the object, and one leaves the object in its wrong position.)  Of course that could easily be because I'm not (yet) facile with grips.

I'm going to use your fix on my original file, and hope that the problem doesn't re-occur.

Thanks again for your help.

[andrew_makhov]

Hi,

We have been confronted with this issue and look into.

There are the same problems in earlier AutoCAD versions (2004), but with 2D entities, namely ARC’s. We have found that sometimes some arcs get own normal vector with opposite direction, and found workaround to treat this: in batch mode convert arcs to polylinearcs and explode them back. Thus the normal vector gets own right direction back.

Yep, we have been confronted with this issue again in AutoCAD 2013. And situation becomes heavier. This is 3D Solid. But again some solids get own normal vector with wrong direction. Therefore grips stay at place, and graphics jump like in mirror.

A workaround for this issue is to change one dimension of solid with property palette and do it back. This is the same way as a click on grip.

And another batch way: convert 3D Solids to Meshes and back. If we convert “bad” 3D Solid to Mesh it gets own normal vector with right direction and body graphics jumps on right place. Then we need get 3D Solid back from Mesh.

To Do: Uncheck “Apply smoothness after tessellation” checkbox in “Mesh Tessellation Options” or set “FACETERSMOOTHLEV” to “–1”, select wrong Solids and use “_MESHSMOOTH” command. Then switch “SMOOTHMESHCONVERT“ to “2” (Faceted and optimized), select created meshes and use “_CONVTOSOLID” command.

But that convertation has a bad side effect – solids lost a dimension grips and look as old solids in earlier AutoCAD versions.

I hope this helps somebody. And I hope AutoCAD developers fix this issue surely.

PS: This is not for Mac only! This is common platform problem. We use AutoCAD for Windows 7 64x.

[StormyC]

We are now experiencing the same problem with 3dSolids - I know this is old but wondered if there was ever a permanent fix?

Win7 64Bit AutoCAD2014

[maxim_k]

Hi StotmyC,

Two years ago I received the response from Autodesk team about this issue with misaligned grips on 3D Solids, they wrote that it is drawing database issue.
In order to repair this you need to re-enter value of Z position of 3D Solid in Properties palette.

Maxim

[StormyC]

Thanks for the reply:
I'm aware of the fix after the fact - I was more interested in the avoiding it or locating and stopping its cause....?

[maxim_k]

Sorry, but I'm not aware of this.

Maxim

[bake0282]

how are you placing the objects... are you just using move tools and 3d Align? I've had the same problem try using Union tool after the objects are in place

[RONeil2ZFB9]

We are having the same issue here....

we moved using the MOVE command from position 1 to position 2
there are no grip points on position 2 so are unable to "fix" the problem

[maxim_k]

Hi @RONeil2ZFB9 ,

What AutoCAD version do you use?

What macOS version installed on your Mac?

Have you tried  >>>>>THIS<<<<< advice?