What do users think about ASD

[SMPConsulting]

I am looking to purchase a new steel detailing program and was wondering what most users on here think about ASD?

Is it a good program and how does it compare to other programs such as Xsteel and Prosteel?

[lucis29]

I will copy an old reply that I gave to someone on another forum. He was asking about similar detailing programs:

"

This is a long and endless discussion, but I'll give you my opinion. At the beginning I had the same question: What is/are the best program(s) for steel detailing.

I will start with ASD. 

1)Autocad Structural Detailing (part of Revit Structure Suite together with Revit Structure)

A) Advantages:
a) based on AutoCad (3d) - since you've worked with AutoCad the program is 1/2 learned
b) it's quite cheap compared to other products (Tekla starts @15k EUR + 1500EUR/year subscription)
c) it has local drawing standards (I'm sure it has Australia too)
d) it is developed by a large company - Autodesk (there is a small risk that the company will go bankrupt or bought by someone else). When Robobat (the former developer of Robot and Robotoffice) was bought by ADK, there was no possibility to upgrade from the "old" Robobat products to the "new" ADK products.
e) it has (some) connectivity with Revit and Robot - and since Revit is the next best thing after sliced bread you can expect further development of the interchange
f) for the same price you have Steel detailing and Reinforcement
g) i will not mention the huge difference between ACD 2D and ASD Steel

Also there are 2 macros for stairs and railings, but didn't tried them.

B) Disadvantages and annoying parts:
a+b) it requires a powerful computer otherwise it becomes unstable for very large projects
c) it is very "picky" about elements (even 0.1mm difference in an element assigns a new position)
d) it doesn't have so many macros for "connecting" elements
e) it doesn't have an analysis program in it (like tekla), but has some connectivity with Robot (extra price for Robot)
f) take some time to create a "satisfactory" template
g) i don't like how he annotates Automatic Drawings
h) not to many tutorials or a large community
i) it still has BUGS....

About other softwares:
Tekla Steel (structures) is widely used and I've heard is better then ASD. The disadvantage is the high price and the fact that you must learn a new program from scratch. Also Tekla has a nice system in which the program saves the drawings in separate files and the size of the file doesn't increase => better redraws and no sluggishness. If you decide to buy Tekla I would take in consideration a training program.

Graitec Advance Steel has a very aggressive marketing but I don't know if it's better then ASD. I've only seen some tutorials, but didn't played with it. It also has a Structural Computation program (Arche), but again, only a little interaction for me.

I don't know anything about StruCad, never tried it.

About 2 years ago, before the "death" of AUGI, there was a very active ASD forum. I've learned a lot of thinks on that forum. I remember there was someone, Katika, she was from Australia too and she taught me a lot of tricks. She didn't answered to my emails lately.

Also m20roxxers is a very good user of ASD. I saw him around here.

If I were you, first I would try some of the most important programs in the market and then take a decision. 


Lucian.

"

[jorgeluisgdeaca]

Hi,

first, what's the program you are using now?

 ranking:

1-Tekla (in addition Strucad users should migrate to Tekla)

2-Prosteel

3-ASD

4-Advance steel

I think your election depends on many things, these are the most ( by the market) popular and standarized programs for steel detailing, please think wath are your real requirements before choosing one of them. I work in a company of metal structures and we are using other softwares for design and detailing.

ASD has the benefits mentioned by LUCIAN but you need to evaluate more than just the benefits offered to the detailed.

Hope this help

[SMPConsulting]

Hi Lucian & jorgeluisgdeaca,

Thanks for your detailed responses. I aggree with the part about Revit as there is high usage of steel in architectural and commercial construction it seems the logic thing to integrate a steel detailing package with Revit.

I also agree with tbe bit about there being some security in ASD being made by Autodesk.

I have done a lot of steel detailing in AutoCAD 2D, 3D Mechanical Desktop (MDT) before they stopped making it and also Inventor. I have had a brief go at StruCAD and now that Teckla has bought StruCAD I would have to say that Xsteel is the worlds premier steel detailing package not that it wasn't before they purchased Xsteel. I think Xsteel might have always been ahead of StruCAD in a small way.

I wonder what plans Autodesk have for ASD and where they see the market for ASD. If ASD started to gain popularity I wouldn't have a problem buying it but I just am concerned at the momement that it has a little way to go.

It would be good to get some feedback from some steel detailers on the size of projects they have been able to undertake in terms of total tonnage. Also can you program customised connections and do reports. Also what is the document control like. Does ASD produce a report for the drawing register and then also revisions if changes are made. Xsteel and StruCAD do this very well and it is important to have this functionality in a well run document control system and also to properly assist with construction management.

Anthony

[jorgeluisgdeaca]

Hi ,

I think the size of proyects is the worst thing that has ASD, some users needs up to 12 GB Ram to work, in comparison Tekla-Strucad-Prosteel needs just 4GB Ram to move that proyects.

Another thing you mentioned is I dont think no company (autodesk) needs to gain popularity with any software to offer the best software that they can develop.

[lucis29]

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@quadratec wrote:

I wonder what plans Autodesk have for ASD and where they see the market for ASD. If ASD started to gain popularity I wouldn't have a problem buying it but I just am concerned at the momement that it has a little way to go.

It would be good to get some feedback from some steel detailers on the size of projects they have been able to undertake in terms of total tonnage. Also can you program customised connections and do reports. Also what is the document control like. Does ASD produce a report for the drawing register and then also revisions if changes are made. Xsteel and StruCAD do this very well and it is important to have this functionality in a well run document control system and also to properly assist with construction management.

Anthony

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Hi Anthony,

Unfortunately, I don't see a bright future for ASD because ACAD is not optimized for 3D environments. I compare a 20MB file in ASD and a 20MB file done in Revit. The ACAD file is almost iresponsive in Model Space, while Revit  works like a charm. Now I am working on a 75MB file and I can't even rotate the model with Hiden visual style. (i7-2700k, 16GB RAM, AMD 6850, SSD).

Hope someone from Autodesk will contradict me...

My maximum tonnage was 130to, but it was a warehouse, so not such a problem for ASD. Now I'm working on a Comercial Building, but with a lot of details and aprocimately 50 drawings. It's bad...[I censor myself because I have no experience with other softwares and because we are on an Autodesk forum (it's not nice to say (very) bad things about someone in his own house 🙂 )].

Once again, the biggest advantafe over Tekla is the price and sometimes, this is a decisive factor.

Lucian.

[ZHUKOV_ING]

Hi jorgeluisgdeaca About your ranking. I Agree that Tekla is the best at this moment but the price is very very high. Pro steel not bad but is not so good software, ASD better than Graitec ADvance steel no way, i have expiriance working with Pro steel , ASD , Advance steel and a little bit Tekla, and i can say that ASD is much worst than Pro steel and i will not compare to Advance Steel and Tekla because there is no comarison between ASD and Advance. Gratec Advance steel and Tekal are very simillar i can say that the only difference between Tekla and Graitec is the platform and the price , tekla has own platform and the price is around 20000 euro, Advance steel is running on AutoCad and from version 2012 Graitec have its own platform and the price is around 7000 euro with subscriptoin. Standalone version of graitec is very very good and like i say in previos posts Advance Steel is managing the Autocad better then ASD.

[jorgeluisgdeaca]

ZHUKOV_ING,

you're right about the price. it is a great advantage when you're working in a company that can pay for it.

One of the  software we are using is around 70000 USD plus 6600 USD/year (support & updates).

I dont remember the price of Bentley programs, the subscription is 1200 USD.

About the ranking, yea, depends on the use that each one of us.

[SMPConsulting]

Hi Lucian,

The responses in this thread are all great feedback. When I used Mechanical Desktop (MDT) to do steel detailing I could do up to about 30 tonne and even then it really slowed down and was clunky.

 Is ASD only a third party applications running over the top of AutoCAD (like ProSteel and MDT) or does it have it's own kernal and built from the ground up?

I think the performance of third party applications running over the top of AutoCAD is always going to be substandard to programs built with their own kernal. I seem to remember that is one  of the reasons why AutoDesk created Inventor to replace MDT.

Anthony

[jorgeluisgdeaca]

many times big enterprises discontinuing programs o not offer all the support that users needs.

ASD and ROBOT was bought by Autodesk and many users say previously had more support. Strucad was bought by Trimble then user were forced to migrate to Tekla. For this reason Acecad discontinues the development of an aplication that I could use....no allways get wath we want

[lucis29]

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@quadratec wrote:

Hi Lucian,

 Is ASD only a third party applications running over the top of AutoCAD (like ProSteel and MDT) or does it have it's own kernal and built from the ground up?

---

ASD is AutoCad on steroids and probably that is why is working sluggish.

---

[MeelisSinijärv6719]

I bought Revit Structure and ASD in 2008. But before I was already familiar with Robobat's RCAD (now ASD). Here are a bunch of old videos of Rcad:

http://www.robotoffice.com/asd/

ASD  is based on Autocad. I have to say that ASD steel is not a dream, but it does the work. It slows down significally when designing large structures. It crashes often. Autocad don't support good gaming graphic cards like "geforce" so you need an "autodesk recomended graphics card" if you want to use faster autocad 3D models.

ASD reinforcement is a 2D software with some 3D capabilities. This is quite a simple and efficient piece of software I use often. In real life structural engineer usually do not need a 3D rebars to model.

ASD formwork is wery simple software. Basicly you can design your structure model as acis solids and convert them to ASD formwork elements like walls, beams etc. Then it is possible to make plans and elevation drawings. Autodesk has not developed it for years now and unfortunately it is practically standalone software that can not work with ASD reinforcement any more like Rcad did. If it was a little more advanced, I'd used it in some cases instead of Revit.

So about five years I have been waiting fot that Revit integrates ASD and I do not need Autocad anymore. Now it is clear that after five years from now that will still not happen. The development of Revit structure is very slow. Actually it is wery complicated software to use and I am not using it for final design because it slows down the construction drawings generation. I use it for raw modelling of a structure just to check out the basics and to generate the raw formwork frawings (in dwg format) for ASD. I do not do any steel in Revit.

I wish I could afford Tekla Structures so I could forget Revit and its sattelite programs. To be honest I think that really intuitive and simple structural engineering software has to be developed yet.

[dwatsonZ4JX6]

Can I import RAM RSS and RAM Connection files to Revit and create structural steel details for beams and columns with connections; for shop details and bill of materials? --Dennis