Lap Joint Flanges with Stub Ends - Not working

[Bob_Lipchik]

I'm completely stumped on this one.  I'm having a terrible time trying to get a stub end & lap joint flange place in my model. I've been somewhat successful in getting a stub end/lap joint flange to connect to another stub-end/lap joing flange but the problem comes when I try to connect to an equipment nozzle or valve.  From all of the other posts I see everyone says it should work out of the box but I'm having no luck.  Here's where I'm at:

Created a new spec taking the only stub ends and lap joint flanges available in ASME Pipe & Fittings catalog.  I can't find anything anywhere that tells me which bolts and gaskets I need to make a lap joint connection so in this spec I added every bolt and gasket available.  So what I'm saying is that I've got everything in the spec.

Lap joints won't connect to other lap joints or to valves or nozzles.  Here's the error I'm receiving when trying to continue routing from a ball valve::

Started hacking around with the Joint Setup dialog and was finally able to get lap joints to connect to other lap joints.  Still can't connect to the valves.

Can someone please tell me exactly what my joint settings need to be?  I've attached a pic of how my settings are right now.

Thanks!!

Bob

[lopezjo]

Does your spec have a flange in it that meets the following criteria?

NominalDiameter = "2in"

Primary port facing = "RF"

Primary port end type = "FL"

Primary port pressure class = "150"

The flange that is found will get connected on two sides.

Primary port: Will match the valve or nozzle you are connecting to

Secondary port: Against pipe or other pipe fitting. 

So take a look at how many flanges meet that search criteria to see if an unexpected flange (secondary port) is being used.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,

Jorge

[Bob_Lipchik]

No, I don't have those items.  The problem is that the ASME catalog that shipped with P3D doesn't have RF lap joint flanges or stub ends.  My assumption was that P3D was programmed to only use FF for these two items so I didn't bother creating new components.

However, shouldn't it disregard the facing  connect a RF to a FF since I removed the Facing from the Required Match section of my flanged joint in joint setup?

But even with the FF stub ends and lap joints they wouldn't insert or connect until I messed around with the Joint Setup. Can you confirm that my Joint Setup is correct?

In the mean time I'll try creating RF stub ends and lap joints.

Thanks for the help Jorge!!!

[lopezjo]

You can change the Autoflange search criteria in Project Setup so that you do not need to define new content. It is looking for a flange using those values and it is failing because it can't find it in spec. You have two choices:

1. Add flanges to spec

2. Change flange search criteria of Autoflange for the project

Hope this helps.

--Jorge

[Bob_Lipchik]

Jorge,

It does help.  Can you direct me on how to change my Autoflange criteria?  I thought of that but couldn't figure out how to do it.

Thanks,

Bob

[lopezjo]

Click the button "..." shown at:

http://docs.autodesk.com/PNID/2013/ENU/filesPCRD/GUID-C0E1E094-228C-4E11-A642-5E1B4968174C.htm

And it should bring up:

http://docs.autodesk.com/PNID/2013/ENU/filesPCRD/GUID-68A4205B-9395-4112-9510-B958DDAF7970.htm

This is where you change the matching properties that affect the flange that is searched in the spec.

The UI is a little confusing:

Simple joints = actual connections

Complex joints = adapter search

When a complex joint is used to find an adapter, one simple joint will be used at each side of the adapter.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,

Jorge

[lopezjo]

I had to update the links as the right pane links did not get used. Check again if you read the post before I edited it.

--Jorge

[Bob_Lipchik · Accepted solution]

Jorge,

Your instructions helped but I also had to add Stub Ends as a fastener.  Thank you for your help.

To add Lap Joint flanges and Stub Ends to work I did the following:

First go to Project Setup > Piping Connection Settings.  Click on the "Auto flange joint" under Compound Joints, then click Modify:

In the Setup Compound Joint dialog, click on the "..." button as shown below:

And finally uncheck the "Facing" box: 

This will allow you to connect RF and FF flanges to each other.  

But that only fixes the problem of having only FF lap joints and stub ends in the catalog.  Because the stub ends are considered fasteners I had to also add them to the fasteners for Stub end lapped joints as shown below:

[paragnewe]

hello friend,

i tried the way yo sollved this problem.

but after removing facing option also i cant able to get connection for LAP joint flange (FF) to valve (RF)..

it shows me an error only. 

[darrelldixon]

What we ended up doing was making a copy of the Lap flanges in our catalog and changed the facing to say "RF", because this flange is always used with a stub end effectively making it a raised face flange.

[patpat79]

Why connect a rf and ff components? If you need ff? Create ff components, if you need rf? Create a rf components, if you need lap, then create lap, don't make all components connecting to each and every component you want to. You will mess up your project, your BOM etc. This is not piping design is intended to, nor plant 3d is. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

In fact, the end of valve is RF.

and when we connnet it to pipe use FF flange not RF flange.

if P3D can not do this, it is the question that P3D can not use in real. 

do not ask us to make FF-FF or RF-RF easily.

we are user, we pay the money, we need how to resolve the question.

[patpat79]

Therefore if that is the case, Change your setup UNCHECK the "FACING" to have the output you desire (see attached image).

I am just concerned about your project setup.

And for your information, I am a user also, we also paid for the software.

Hope it helps thanks

[Anonymous]

thank you very much for your method and your reply.

yes, we use the P3d to solve the question not to use it as show.

we hope it become more usefully.

[patpat79]

If you need further assistance, any clarification or question to attain your desired output, please let us know. Thanks and hope we are of help.

[Anonymous]

I just saw this post and I have a similar problem. However, my comment is related to the use of stub ends and lap joint flanges. Lap Joint Flanges are always flat-faced since they are used with stub ends. The stub end becomes the raised face. The two items are a set like two peas in a pod. You can insert WN or SO into the model without any problems. However, Plant 3D seems to have a different approach when it comes to using stub ends. I'm using PLant 3D 2018, and I cannot insert the Stub End and then the LJ Flange. You need to place the LJ in the model first, but the stub end doesn't seem to appear in the model. This is evident when the stub end is on a reducer. I wish there was a better explanation in the documentation on using stub ends and lap joint flanges. 

[darrelldixon]

The actual stub end is not treated like a pipe fitting that can be placed in the model. If you look at the Joint Setup dialog box shown above - the Stub end lapped joint type - the Stub end is actually inserted as a fastener and it should come in automatically when you place a lap joint flange.

[Anonymous]

In my case the stub end is not inserted automatically. Just the LJ Flange.
The stub end is in my pipe spec as well as the LJ flange. But it does not show up properly in the model.

[jeremydGSS7W]

IK HAVE THE EXACT SAME ISSUE THE LAP JOINT FLANGE IS CONNECTIONG STRAIGHT TO THE PIPE AND NO STUB END APPEARS EVEN IF I PUT IT ON A 90 IT DOES NOT SHOW THE STUB END NEED HELP BAD!!!!