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P3D Structural Member Problem

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Message 1 of 21
dzine14u
1437 Views, 20 Replies

P3D Structural Member Problem

I continually encounter a problem involving the placement of structural members in 3D.  This may be a programming issue but when I place any member it offsets its position slightly from the point where it was actually placed.  This happens each and every time which means that I must manually move every single member to where it needs to be.

 

Is anyone else experiencing this or is it just me?  Either way it is unacceptable and needs a fix.

 

Chuck A. - Designer

Upper Consulting, Inc.

Chuck Altmix
Lead Engineering Designer
Upper Consulting, Inc.
www.upperconsulting.com
20 REPLIES 20
Message 2 of 21
Dennis_W
in reply to: dzine14u

I am having this same problem.  It also happens with stairs, ect.  Does anyone have an answer of what could be going on?

I am using Plant 3D 2012.

 

Dennis

Message 3 of 21
Rich.O.3d
in reply to: dzine14u

on strucutes tab of ribbon, on Parts Panel, hit 'Settings'

this brings up the Member Settings Dialogue box.
Near Bottom Right hand corner there are 2 boxes (Horizontal and Vertical)

Are there numbers in the boxes?

Do the Numbers Match the offset you are seeing in the model when placing the member.?

CAD Management 101:
You can do it your own way,
If its done just how I say!
[Metallica:And Justice For All:1988]
Message 4 of 21
Dennis_W
in reply to: dzine14u

Just 0's in those two boxes.
Message 5 of 21
dzine14u
in reply to: Rich.O.3d

I have contacted Autodesk directly in regard to this issue. They acknowledge the problem and are currently seeking a solution.  What I have discovered is that the units accuracy you have set affects the amount of offset of the structural members.  In other words, the database that the structural shapes are created from gets "rounded off" based on the units you are using.  For instance: The offset from selected insertion point is different if you are using Architectural units set to 1/16" vs. set to 1/256" accuracy.  The same applies to the number of decimal places set from ".00" to ".0000000".  Regardless, even when your units are set to the highest accuracy possible it may be closer...but it is still is not right.

 

I have been informed that the P3D developers are on the case and we should expect a fix soon.  Apparently I was the first to discover and report this problem so they are keeping me up to date.  I will repost here if I hear anything new.

 

Chuck Altmix, Engineering Designer

Upper Consulting, Inc.

www.upperconsulting.com

 

Chuck Altmix
Lead Engineering Designer
Upper Consulting, Inc.
www.upperconsulting.com
Message 6 of 21
jason.drew
in reply to: Dennis_W

Dennis,

 

I wanted to see what kind of issues you running into with the stair shapes. Is an an problem with placement or the steel shapes themselves?

 

As mentioned before, the issue with the strucutal members has been logged with the development team and they are looking into it.

 

Thank you,



Jason Drew
Designated Support Specialist
Message 7 of 21
imvida
in reply to: dzine14u

The issue happens when the intersection snap is turn on, if you use end point snap instead, it works fine.

Message 8 of 21
dzine14u
in reply to: imvida

We have found that the physical shift occurs even when you change an existing line into a structural member.  The developers are working to fix this issue.

 

Chuck

Chuck Altmix
Lead Engineering Designer
Upper Consulting, Inc.
www.upperconsulting.com
Message 9 of 21
manetzj
in reply to: dzine14u

Same problem, many years later...

 

(P3D 2014) Plant 3D's placement of structural members in 3D is incorrect.  When placing any member, it offsets its position from the point I've selected.  This offset scales accordingly to the units precision that I've selected for my drawing.  This happens each time and I must manually move every single member that I've placed.

 

Can anyone offer any support or fix for this?

 

Best regards,

 

J. Manetz,

Sidock Group, Inc.

Novi, MI  48374

Message 10 of 21
dzine14u
in reply to: manetzj

manetez:

 

I am convinced that the strategy at Autodesk is that if they sweep it under the rug that eventually it will just go away and will be forgotten.  I simply dont use the structural components in Plant 3D anymore because of it.  I have a steel shapes program by CCAD for like $50 that gives me any structural shape you could ever want. Then I extrude the shapes and place them manually.  This way I know it is right the first time, every time.

 

Chuck

 

PS:  I think its sad that you spend so much for the software but they cannot fix problems like these.

Chuck Altmix
Lead Engineering Designer
Upper Consulting, Inc.
www.upperconsulting.com
Message 11 of 21
manetzj
in reply to: dzine14u

Thanks for the reply Chuck.

 

It is sad especially if you consider how much money a company like mine has invested in this software (by-the-way, it's 5 licenses).

 

I used to think that I was missing something with those structural shapes (something that I had overlooked) as I've had this issue since Plant 3D 2011.  I'm glad that I've finally found your posting about this 'cause I thought I was going nuts.

 

I see it as a simple fix in their insertion routine since EVERY structural shape inserts incorrectly.  Now if they could just fix it.

 

Best regards,

 

Jay

Message 12 of 21
dzine14u
in reply to: manetzj

I agree.  However, it is obvious that this problem does not seem to matter because here is is 3+ years after the fact and the problem still exists.

 

Chuck

Chuck Altmix
Lead Engineering Designer
Upper Consulting, Inc.
www.upperconsulting.com
Message 13 of 21
manetzj
in reply to: dzine14u

I haven't installed our 2015 offering yet.  Does anyone know if this issue has been addressed in the lastest version?

 

-Jay

Message 14 of 21
manetzj
in reply to: manetzj

When using the grid, things got a bit better.  In plan view (Z pointing up), all shapes inserted correctly except that the Y value was off by a small factor.  Without using the grid (using construction lines), the X & Y values are off considerably.  These values do get better as the precision goes up.  But they’re still off.

 

I hope to have Plant 3D (2015) installed and running by the end of next week.  It would be interesting to see if this problem has been addressed in the newest version.

 

-J

Message 15 of 21
dhurst12
in reply to: manetzj

Just installed 2015.......New version, same problem. 

However, if you set your units to decimal and turn the precision to .0000, the problem is solved.

Message 16 of 21
daniel.klingspor
in reply to: dzine14u

Hello All,

 

Just wanted to add my experience with this issue as I have spent the last day chasing this issue. (Should have checked forums first!)

 

Not all but most structural members' insertion point is still off.  This occurs with the "Line to Steel" or just picking points on a center line.  I currently have my "Units" precision maxed out and set to decimal.  The discrepancy is worse when the precision is less.  Very, very irritating.  We are only talking about .00012" or less but these type of errors start to add up and suddenly you're an inch off.  It is very time consuming to have to move each member if you want it to be absolutely correct. 

 

It also makes me wonder if there are any issues with other features such as the piping.  I have not encountered any yet but it does make you wonder.

 

It is disheartening to see that the original post date was from 2011 and here we are in 2015 with no fix.  This is a pretty big deal.

 

Thanks,

 

Dan K. 

Message 17 of 21

I would like to test this in my environment to see if I can develop a solution. Can someone outline each step I'll need to recreate the issue? 

 

Example: Click this > then click that > then do this > check coordinates

 

Thank you!

-Dave
Message 18 of 21
patpat79
in reply to: davetyner

hmmmm... good for me by not having to encounter this issue, currently using 2014 at our office and have a 2015 version in my laptop... hope someone who experienced the same problem had found the solution already.


Best Regards,
Pat Andres
Autodesk Expert Elite
Plant 3D Administrator
GHD Manila

Message 19 of 21
dzine14u
in reply to: patpat79

Nope...the problem still exists.  We simply dont use any of the structural functions in P3D because of it.  We have another add on that inserts the shapes for us to extrude (Steel Shapes by CCAD).

 

The sad thing is that I was the first to report this issue to the devolpers over 3 years ago and nothing has changed whatsoever.

Chuck Altmix
Lead Engineering Designer
Upper Consulting, Inc.
www.upperconsulting.com
Message 20 of 21

Dave,

 

The problem occurs anytime (at least for us) you place a piece of structural steel.

 

You should be able to replicate the problem by opening an existing project or starting a new one.  Place a line (length shouldn't matter) to act as the center line.  Place a second construction line along the same coordinates for reference to act as your Top Of Steel elevation (TOS). 

 

Select the Member through the Structure tab.  Through the settings select a W10x33 (I know it occurs with this member but is not exclusive to this size) and set the insertion point to the center TOS.  Now do the line to steel command.  If you go to an elevation view (front, back, left, right) you will notice that the member is slightly above the correct TOS elevation (the second line).  This can be confirmed with an ordinate dimension.  In most instances we are talking about a distance of around .0001 but this varies.

 

This happens with the other insertion points as well.  Say you are putting a channel on top of a flange, you want the edge of the channel to be on the center line of the flange.  Go to a plan view and it will be offset by very small amount.

 

Currently the only solution is to move the member to the correct location after insertion.  Or as Chuck stated use pre-made shapes and do an extrusion.

 

-Dan

 

 

 

 

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