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Valued Contributor
Rcfuss
Posts: 65
Registered: ‎08-17-2011
Message 1 of 8 (2,409 Views)
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P3D 2012 Back To Back Lap Joint Stub End Flanges

2409 Views, 7 Replies
06-20-2012 09:59 AM

I want to put 2 stub ends back to back with no pipe and currently it is not possible for me.

When you insert a Lap Joint Flange it comes in by itself without a stub end. When you click the plus on the lap joint flange and start to pipe, it automatically inserts the stub end and a piece of pipe.  If I delete the pipe coming off the stub end it will automatically remove the stub end. 

 

I noticed with the weld dots turned on that it doesn't show a weld at the stub end and the pipe but it will show it in the isometric which could be part of the problem (See photo attached).  I also know that the Stub end is a fastener so maybe the behavior of it is different?

 

Is there a way to put a lap joint flange in with the stub end without anything else attached so I may weld back to back stub ends?

Thank you,

Robert

Valued Contributor
Rcfuss
Posts: 65
Registered: ‎08-17-2011
Message 2 of 8 (2,373 Views)

Re: P3D 2012 Back To Back Lap Joint Stub End Flanges

06-22-2012 06:02 AM in reply to: Rcfuss

If anyone from autodesk has seen this post could you please let me know if this is a known issue or if it is something we are doing wrong.  This will cause us to have hundreds of more welds if we are not able to weld back to back stub ends.

 

Thank you in advance,

Robert Cali

Active Member
woolydave
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎08-12-2011
Message 3 of 8 (2,361 Views)

Re: P3D 2012 Back To Back Lap Joint Stub End Flanges

06-23-2012 07:01 AM in reply to: Rcfuss
I'm also interested in a solution to this.
Employee
PeterQuinn
Posts: 313
Registered: ‎08-15-2007
Message 4 of 8 (2,358 Views)

Re: P3D 2012 Back To Back Lap Joint Stub End Flanges

06-23-2012 09:51 AM in reply to: woolydave

I haven't had time to work this through, but here's what I'm thinking.

 

Put in two WN flanges back to back. Subsitute both of them for Lap flanges with the subsitute grip. Now, this won't work out of the box because by default there isn't a connection for LAP-LAP connections. You can add one by going to project setup under connections. This is as far as I got when I was looking at it last night.

 

I'm no expert when it comes to how Plant 3D connections are made, so this may be a dead end.

 

One thing I'm curious about. Am I understanding correctly that you need to model back to back lap flanges? What do you use them for? Do you even have space to weld them?



Peter Quinn
Senior Product Manager
Autodesk, Inc.

Valued Contributor
Rcfuss
Posts: 65
Registered: ‎08-17-2011
Message 5 of 8 (2,344 Views)

Re: P3D 2012 Back To Back Lap Joint Stub End Flanges

06-25-2012 06:03 AM in reply to: PeterQuinn

Hi,

Changing out the back to back WN Flanges almost worked but it treated the 2 stub ends between the flanges as 1 and that's how the ISO turned out.  (See Attached).  I questioned the spacing as well but it turns the length of the stubs is great enough welding. 

There are instances where we have a butterfly valve next to a check valve and we need enough distance for the disc of the butterfly to clear.  We don't want a little spool piece between the 2 because it is unecessary and it adds an additional weld.  A lot of these pipes are 8 to 24" and adding a weld is very costly.  In meanwhile I will try adding the Lap/Lap connection.

 

Thank you,

 

Valued Contributor
Rcfuss
Posts: 65
Registered: ‎08-17-2011
Message 6 of 8 (2,287 Views)

Re: P3D 2012 Back To Back Lap Joint Stub End Flanges

07-03-2012 06:20 AM in reply to: woolydave

Still haven't got a sollution from anyone.  Have you had any luck?

Valued Contributor
andy.davis
Posts: 84
Registered: ‎07-10-2009
Message 7 of 8 (2,247 Views)

Re: P3D 2012 Back To Back Lap Joint Stub End Flanges

07-06-2012 04:51 AM in reply to: Rcfuss

Hi,

 

Something you could try is to create a new fitting that is modelled almost exactly the same as the sub-end - I have used a coupling - that you can actually insert manually.

 

Define the end-connections exactly as the sub-end but move the insertion point of the LAP end to the end of the fitting - it will not model the flange/stub-end assembly exactly the same as the stub-end fastener when inserted into your model but will position the mating flange, stub-end and gasket correctly. Set the ISO type and SKEY to match the original stub-end and duplicate the Long Description (family).

 

You'll also need to add a new joint setting for LAP - LAP, just set the fastener to be Universal.

 

In the model and in the ISO, you'll see that the flanges are shown at the end of the new couplings rather than behind the stub-ends but the dimensions are correct. Also, you'll see that there are 2 entries in the BOM for stub-ends as we now have 2 types of fitting with the same description.

 

Please see the attached images.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

Andy

Valued Contributor
Rcfuss
Posts: 65
Registered: ‎08-17-2011
Message 8 of 8 (2,219 Views)

Re: P3D 2012 Back To Back Lap Joint Stub End Flanges

07-06-2012 08:11 AM in reply to: andy.davis

Thank you for the help. 

I will keep this in mind if we have to call out the lap joints and stub ends as seperate items in the BOM. 

 

What I currently have done is taken the weld neck flange and converted the dimensions over to a lap joint.  I created a new isosymbol called "FlangeLJ" then modified the SKEY to FLLJ.  Luckily I do not need to call out the stub end and the flange as a seperate item in the BOM so I am able to make the isometric more representative.

see attached

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