Map3d 2012 Coordinate Systems Observations

[thoman999]

Hello All,

Having beat my head on the monitor for the last several days, I thought I would pass on my observations in the hope that:

A - Autodesk will fix them in a timely fashion during this release - Not holding my breath here

B - Others won't spend hours trying to figure it out.

In my case, I need to create multiple unique coordinate systems called Low Distortion Projections (Google it for explanation.)

Here are the problems identified so far with the 2012 version of the Coordinate Library

Coordinate System Categories

1 - The regional 'containers' that hold coordinate systems definitions. You cannot create an empty container. It requires at least 1 coordinate system definition to be created. When creating a container put an arbitrary coordinate system definition in. This assists with item 2b.

Coordinate System Definitions

2a - Getting started - There is no provision to just select an existing datum or ellipsoid. One must 'create' a new definition that may vary in name only. The vast majority of us using their products will not actually create new ellipsoids or datums just utilizing them as the basis for other projections.

2b - Creating definition - Continuing the definition process the definition needs to be placed in a coordinate system category. Due to the problems identified in item 1 this creates a circular error. The workaround being item 1 rather than creating multiple definitions in the wrong container then going back to fix them.

2c - Scale Reduction - This should be renamed to Scale Factor to fit with the rest of the known world as the value can be greater or less than unity (1.000000) In my case the values all happen to be something greater than 1. While on this subject, the autodesk programmers set this to do something totally unexpected. No matter what you set the value to, if you save and reedit the projection value will be displayed as '1'

2d - Missing Projection definition form data - I went through the projection definitions and found the following projection types were missing their fields in the form:

Oblique Mercator

Ordanance Survey National Grid Transformation 1997

Ordanance Survey National Grid Transformation OSTN02

caio

Tom

[rick-chappell]

On Tom's Item 2c, Tom and I did some troubleshooting, and it appeared to be juat a display problem with the form - the data and tools worked as they should. I contacted Autodesk Support and Nathan Moore confirmed it. I posted some more details on it in my blog.

Rick Chappell

http://www.cadsoft-consult.com/blogs/geo/

[LeafRiders]

My Screen comes up like it's thinking about giving me a searchable list of "Select Coordinate System..." nothing happens. Would be nice to have the old list and process back. Always great when a feature works fine, and some programming junkie messes it up with all these flashy GUI addons.

[thoman999]

Amen!

What autodesk seems to consistently miss the boat on is that their entire product is about the creation of something else. So the primary goal should be a streamlined product that can create efficiently. Adding additional features is great. Making me wait on a standard dialog that used to pop right up is totally counter productive. Not to mention that with the new dialog the mouse is required where before I could just enter my known coord sys code and hit enter to assign it.

And then they ... Ending rant, what's the point.

If you prefer the old dialog we're lucky in that Autodesk rarely removes commands, The 'classic' dialog still exists in the form of ADESETCRDSYS. So create yourself a new icon or edit the ribbon command and you can get back to working much faster.

Happy New Year

Tom

[LeafRiders]

I am using Civil 3D 2012 (Map 3D tools). That suggestion doesn't work either, it brings up the new searchable dialogue box that now prefers to FATAL ERROR / Crash as soon as I try to type a character into the search line. Great software!

[thoman999]

Hmm, odd but, sadly, not completely unexpected.

Have you applied SP1? I believe I have and it works fine for me.

Tom

[johngrego]

I was about to start a new post on the aforementioned Scale Reduction observation, but I thought I would follow up on this existing post first.

I am also creating a low distortion projection, which is based on the Transverse Mercator projection.  It appears that the Scale Reduction parameter in the form is more than just a precision display problem with the form, because my "Scale Factor" of 1.0001 is not applied when transforming from another coordinate systems (CS).  The OGC, Oracle, and ESRI WKT versions of my CS definition show 1.000000000000 (12 decimal places), including the WKT ESRI:

PROJCS["VTN-CLV",GEOGCS["GCS_North_American_1983",DATUM["D_North_American_1983",SPHEROID["GRS_1980",6378137.000,298.25722210]],PRIMEM["Greenwich",0],UNIT["Degree",0.017453292519943295]],PROJECTION["Transverse_Mercator"],PARAMETER["False_Easting",328083.333],PARAMETER["False_Northing",656166.667],PARAMETER["Scale_Factor",1.000000000000],PARAMETER["Central_Meridian",-114.96666700000000],PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Origin",36.25000000000000],UNIT["Foot_US",0.30480060960122]]

If I import geometry from another CS into my low distortion projection drawing and manually scale it 1.0001 about the false northing and easting origin, I will get the results that should have been applied automatically via the CS definition.  It doesn't seem to matter if I specify a factor greater or less than - I cannot seem to change the Scale Reduction setting.  I can successfully define this new coordinate system with ESRI ArcGIS using the same parameters.

Is there something I can do when this Scale Reduction parameter will not change?  Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[johngrego]

I realized after my last post that I did not have the Civil 3D 2012 SP1 installed on my computer.  After applying the service pack the Scale Reduction parameter is recognized, even though it still displays as 1 on the form and 1.000000000000  in the WKT previews.

[thoman999]

Yup. Nothing like having expensive precision software use low budget clueless programmers.