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*Expert Elite*
Alfred.NESWADBA
Posts: 8,865
Registered: ‎06-29-2007
Message 1 of 12 (292 Views)

Joining FDO-Polygons loses Islands (MapFeatureMerge)

292 Views, 11 Replies
09-27-2011 12:23 PM

Hi,

 

I have prepared a video and a sdf-file for you to reproduce my problem, and that is:

 

I have two polygons in my sample-sdf, one having an island. I start the command _MAPFEATUREMERGE to join two polygons. Having done that the island is lost. I can't believe that this (losing the islands) is "as designed".

 

I have tried this with:

  • WinXP(32bit) Map3D2012 (32bit)
  • Win7(64bit) Civil3D2010 (32bit)
  • Win7(64bit) Civil3D2011 (64bit)
  • Win7(64bit) Civil3D2012 (64bit)
  • Win7(64bit) Map3D2012 (64bit)

 

I have tried this with:

  • SDF
  • SHP

 

And I don't know what I'm doing wrong?

 

Thx in advance, - alfred -

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Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at
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*Expert Elite*
Alfred.NESWADBA
Posts: 8,865
Registered: ‎06-29-2007
Message 2 of 12 (255 Views)

Betreff: Joining FDO-Polygons loses Islands (MapFeatureMerge)

10-08-2011 02:04 AM in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA

Hi,

 

just want to push my question to top as I didn't get any response.

To get no response may be based on bad question/not enough information/not reproducable on others workstations/.... if I gave not enough information or did anything not common to do when asking for help then please let me know that!

 

Every feedback is welcome, thanx to everyone in advance!

 

- alfred -

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Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at
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*Expert Elite*
antoniovinci
Posts: 1,575
Registered: ‎06-03-2011
Message 3 of 12 (252 Views)

Betreff: Joining FDO-Polygons loses Islands (MapFeatureMerge)

10-08-2011 06:40 AM in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA

Sounds like a serious bug, herr Alfred, even affecting the brand new release 2012.

I've tried with other "holed" topologies in Civl3D 2010, getting your same bad effect.

I hope that someone of Autodesk folks will read this desperate "message in a bottle"...

*Expert Elite*
Alfred.NESWADBA
Posts: 8,865
Registered: ‎06-29-2007
Message 4 of 12 (163 Views)

Re: Joining FDO-Polygons loses Islands (MapFeatureMerge)

05-29-2013 04:30 PM in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA

Hi,

 

In the meanwhile we have Map3D 2014 and this bug is not solved.

Dear Autodesk: why isn't that solved for years now, knowing that every customer will create defects in his data when using that command. What are the plans with that (besides of putting your customers to other products).

 

Sorry for that words, but after that number of years I guess everyone will understand that.

 

- alfred -

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Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at
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Valued Mentor
parkr4st
Posts: 412
Registered: ‎03-24-2004
Message 5 of 12 (151 Views)

Re: Joining FDO-Polygons loses Islands (MapFeatureMerge)

05-30-2013 02:28 AM in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA

Definetely a problem that needs fixing

 

You can get to your desired results with a bit of work.  Create a new feature to plug the hole and check in.  Join the two polygons as you show in your movie.  Do feature overlay intersect of the layer onto itself and the island will reappear as a seperate feature in the output of the intersect.  You can then select and delete or move the island.

 

dave

*Expert Elite*
Alfred.NESWADBA
Posts: 8,865
Registered: ‎06-29-2007
Message 6 of 12 (148 Views)

Re: Joining FDO-Polygons loses Islands (MapFeatureMerge)

05-30-2013 03:09 AM in reply to: parkr4st

Hi Dave,

 

thank you for your answer, and yes, you might be able to handle that manually with workarounds.

But just imagine you have a flooded area (of a lake or river) with a lot of smaller and larger islands (1000++) and you want to add some area-polygons to make the flooded area larger ..... ;(

The additional problem in cases with small islands is: if you run the function you might even not recognize that your islands are gone!

 

Well, I can try to import the  FDO-objects, create a Map-topology, modify that with Map-topology-functions and export it then back to SDF or SHP. And even that way: I don't want to think about how many hours then will be needed to get a clean topology + I don't want to think about what happens with a amount of data if the source SDF has 100000+ polygons, to import it and then to try to clean it and create a topology ... hours or days lost because ....

 

At least currently Autodesk does something like 2+2=5 (area of the first poly (excluding the island, of course) PLUS area of the second poly) and do not repair that since I first sent them the info in 2010.

And I'm getting more and more angry with every hour I loose because of that workarounds (or with every support case I have to describe customers of Autodesk that they have to avoid to use that function or they damage their data).

 

- alfred -

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Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at
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Valued Mentor
parkr4st
Posts: 412
Registered: ‎03-24-2004
Message 7 of 12 (134 Views)

Re: Joining FDO-Polygons loses Islands (MapFeatureMerge)

05-31-2013 02:49 AM in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA

I imagined.  Now we are into a 3D problem as presumably to enlarge the lake you elevated the water level.   The only other way I know of is to remove the islands with a big shovel and not raise the lake or dig out the lake shore.:smileyhappy:  and of course the opposite is true if you lower the lake level, the islands would take out more of the water surface unless the islands are vertically sided.

 

so to 3D this lake would you need contours from which you query a particular elevation, mapexport a sdf with elevation and area to object data and the run the analysis to get surface area?

 

if you draw one big polygon for the outer lake shore and smaller polygons for islands and do analysis source the lake and overlay the islands with identity you end up with a lake full of islands.  you can then query all polygons area less than the lake area and do something with them provided you have the area data to work with.

 

probably autodesk can't get this into their product as someone else beat them to a patent or copyright on how to do it.

 

dave

*Expert Elite*
Alfred.NESWADBA
Posts: 8,865
Registered: ‎06-29-2007
Message 8 of 12 (131 Views)

Re: Joining FDO-Polygons loses Islands (MapFeatureMerge)

05-31-2013 03:20 AM in reply to: parkr4st

Hi,

 

>> Now we are into a 3D problem as presumably to enlarge the lake you elevated the water level

No, it's just a sample as I had that previously, and for that job I don't raise the level of the water, I don't use 3D, I just had some areas that where flooded (from what to be seen in a areal-image) but didn't exist in the current dataset. So I had to create polygons that and join with the existing ones.

Anyway, water or any other theme, the option to join two polygons exists in all GIS-workflows, but for Map3D don't use it as it's result is wrong, that's the message.

 

>> probably autodesk can't get this into their product as someone else beat them to a patent or copyright on how to do it.

If that should be true then they should remove the complete functionality of JOIN as it's results are wrong. As long as the command/function exists I assume to get a correct result, if they can't they have either to document that (best would be a message with every start of the command that island get lost) or to remove the command.

 

For me it's a bug as 2+2 is 4 and not 5, and this bug is not repaired for years now. I don't want to know how many people have used it and have lost islands without recognizing it. ... and they are now working on datasets that are defect (and they even don't know that, but may do some calculation based on that sets, ...horror).

 

- alfred -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Expert Elite*
Alfred.NESWADBA
Posts: 8,865
Registered: ‎06-29-2007
Message 9 of 12 (130 Views)

Re: Joining FDO-Polygons loses Islands (MapFeatureMerge)

05-31-2013 03:23 AM in reply to: parkr4st

Hi again,

 

sorry to not have written down that:

Dave, I really appriciate your trys to help, your job and your workarounds here are great and I want to thank you for that.

...just to avoid that you believeI criticize you, no, really not! It's Autodesk that have not done their jobs.

 

- alfred -

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Alfred NESWADBA
Ingenieur Studio HOLLAUS ... www.hollaus.at
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Valued Mentor
parkr4st
Posts: 412
Registered: ‎03-24-2004
Message 10 of 12 (111 Views)

Re: Joining FDO-Polygons loses Islands (MapFeatureMerge)

05-31-2013 11:24 AM in reply to: Alfred.NESWADBA

Alfred

 

No problem.  Along with all the other incomplete items in the product it is frustrating.  Just how we learn to make do

 

Thanks

 

Dave

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