AutoCAD MEP Wishes

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*Andrew
Message 1 of 12 (96 Views)

Multiple Scales

96 Views, 11 Replies
10-30-2003 05:04 AM
Please fix the multiple scales in one drawing issue. This has been a
problem since R1 and needs attention. It is very painful having separate
drawings for each scale. Its even more painful to have to scale the
drawings when xref'd into a drawing with a different scale. When did
Autocad first start supporting multiple scales in one drawing? R9? Before
that? ABS took a big step backward in this respect.

One idea is to make the program support multiple model spaces similar to
layouts. Each model space could have its own scale. Each layout would have
the ability to have viewports to all of the model spaces without one of the
model space scales affecting the other.

Sorry for ranting. I'm a bit frustrated.

Andrew
Active Contributor
WICK
Posts: 41
Registered: ‎12-03-2003
Message 2 of 12 (96 Views)

Re: Multiple Scales

11-05-2003 02:29 AM in reply to: *Andrew
One way to have multiple scales in a drawing is to change you dimscale. Example: if you are using 1/8" scale, chances are your dimscale is at 1", if you need to have a scale 1/4" change your dimscale to .5". every symbol or device should come in half the size no matter what the scale is set to. I hope this solves your problem!
*Andrew
Message 3 of 12 (96 Views)

Re:

11-05-2003 02:45 AM in reply to: *Andrew
Thanks for the response.  Unfortunately the
size a device is inserted is no longer controlled by dimscale.  If its
style scale is set to "Use Annotation Scale", the block scaling is controlled by
"Annotation Plot Size" in Drawing Setup.  Changing the scale of the drawing
changes all existing symbol scales as well.  So there can only be one
symbol size in a drawing.

 

 



style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">One
way to have multiple scales in a drawing is to change you dimscale. Example:
if you are using 1/8" scale, chances are your dimscale is at 1", if you need
to have a scale 1/4" change your dimscale to .5". every symbol or device
should come in half the size no matter what the scale is set to. I hope this
solves your problem!
Active Contributor
WICK
Posts: 41
Registered: ‎12-03-2003
Message 4 of 12 (96 Views)

Re: Multiple Scales

11-06-2003 08:59 PM in reply to: *Andrew
I was able to use multiple scale in a dwg. In order to do this I had to xref in a second dwg. with the other scale. I thought that the dimscale would have worked, it worked in previous releases, then again not much has stayed the same in this release. Xrefing seperate dwg's should solve your problem although it means creating an extra file that you shouldnt have to have.
*Andrew
Message 5 of 12 (96 Views)

Re:

11-06-2003 10:40 PM in reply to: *Andrew
When xreffing in the second plan that is a
different scale, all the symbols take on the annotation scale of the drawing
being xreffed into.  I have found two work arounds:

 

1.  Xref in the floor plan and scale it up
twice.  So if you are working with 1/8th scale and you want to add a 1/4"
room blowup, scale up the plan to be used as 1/4" and use 1/8" symbols,
annotations and viewports.

 

2.  The second method is similar.  Use a
separate drawing for the 1/4" scale blowup.  This drawing should be set up
to be 1/4".  When xreffing it into the 1/8" drawing, scale it up twice and
use an 1/8" viewport.

 

In my experiences, it is bad practice to scale
geometry that has been drawn true size.  But this program gives no other
option.

 

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I
was able to use multiple scale in a dwg. In order to do this I had to xref in
a second dwg. with the other scale. I thought that the dimscale would have
worked, it worked in previous releases, then again not much has stayed the
same in this release. Xrefing seperate dwg's should solve your problem
although it means creating an extra file that you shouldnt have to
have.
*Snocker, John
Message 6 of 12 (96 Views)

Re:

11-06-2003 10:40 PM in reply to: *Andrew
You could lock the scale of the devices in the
second file to whatever scale it is, then they would come in at that size, but
you wouldn't be limiting your default device styles to one scale, a little
annoying yes, man I thought there was an option to keep devices from
auto-scaling when you change the drawing scale property.  I guess I
just dreamed it up, cause I sure can't find it now. =/


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

When xreffing in the second plan that is a
different scale, all the symbols take on the annotation scale of the drawing
being xreffed into.  I have found two work arounds:

 

1.  Xref in the floor plan and scale it up
twice.  So if you are working with 1/8th scale and you want to add a 1/4"
room blowup, scale up the plan to be used as 1/4" and use 1/8" symbols,
annotations and viewports.

 

2.  The second method is similar.  Use
a separate drawing for the 1/4" scale blowup.  This drawing should be set
up to be 1/4".  When xreffing it into the 1/8" drawing, scale it up twice
and use an 1/8" viewport.

 

In my experiences, it is bad practice to scale
geometry that has been drawn true size.  But this program gives no other
option.

 

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I
was able to use multiple scale in a dwg. In order to do this I had to xref
in a second dwg. with the other scale. I thought that the dimscale would
have worked, it worked in previous releases, then again not much has stayed
the same in this release. Xrefing seperate dwg's should solve your problem
although it means creating an extra file that you shouldnt have to
have.
*Andrew
Message 7 of 12 (96 Views)

Re:

11-07-2003 12:52 AM in reply to: *Andrew
"You could lock the scale of the devices in the
second file to whatever scale it is"

 

How do I do this?


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

You could lock the scale of the devices in the
second file to whatever scale it is, then they would come in at that size, but
you wouldn't be limiting your default device styles to one scale, a little
annoying yes, man I thought there was an option to keep devices from
auto-scaling when you change the drawing scale property.  I guess I
just dreamed it up, cause I sure can't find it now. =/


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

When xreffing in the second plan that is a
different scale, all the symbols take on the annotation scale of the drawing
being xreffed into.  I have found two work arounds:

 

1.  Xref in the floor plan and scale it up
twice.  So if you are working with 1/8th scale and you want to add a
1/4" room blowup, scale up the plan to be used as 1/4" and use 1/8"
symbols, annotations and viewports.

 

2.  The second method is similar. 
Use a separate drawing for the 1/4" scale blowup.  This drawing should
be set up to be 1/4".  When xreffing it into the 1/8" drawing, scale it
up twice and use an 1/8" viewport.

 

In my experiences, it is bad practice to scale
geometry that has been drawn true size.  But this program gives no
other option.

 

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I
was able to use multiple scale in a dwg. In order to do this I had to xref
in a second dwg. with the other scale. I thought that the dimscale would
have worked, it worked in previous releases, then again not much has
stayed the same in this release. Xrefing seperate dwg's should solve your
problem although it means creating an extra file that you shouldnt have to
have.
*Snocker, John
Message 8 of 12 (96 Views)

Re:

11-07-2003 12:57 AM in reply to: *Andrew
In the device style->view tab->scaling, set
scaling to override scale, and whatever your annotation would be at the desired
scale (3/32"@1/8" scale = 9)


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"You could lock the scale of the devices in the
second file to whatever scale it is"

 

How do I do this?


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

You could lock the scale of the devices in the
second file to whatever scale it is, then they would come in at that size,
but you wouldn't be limiting your default device styles to one scale, a
little annoying yes, man I thought there was an option to keep devices from
auto-scaling when you change the drawing scale property.  I
guess I just dreamed it up, cause I sure can't find it now.
=/


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

When xreffing in the second plan that is a
different scale, all the symbols take on the annotation scale of the
drawing being xreffed into.  I have found two work
arounds:

 

1.  Xref in the floor plan and scale it
up twice.  So if you are working with 1/8th scale and you want to add
a 1/4" room blowup, scale up the plan to be used as 1/4" and use 1/8"
symbols, annotations and viewports.

 

2.  The second method is similar. 
Use a separate drawing for the 1/4" scale blowup.  This drawing
should be set up to be 1/4".  When xreffing it into the 1/8" drawing,
scale it up twice and use an 1/8" viewport.

 

In my experiences, it is bad practice to
scale geometry that has been drawn true size.  But this program gives
no other option.

 

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I
was able to use multiple scale in a dwg. In order to do this I had to
xref in a second dwg. with the other scale. I thought that the dimscale
would have worked, it worked in previous releases, then again not much
has stayed the same in this release. Xrefing seperate dwg's should solve
your problem although it means creating an extra file that you shouldnt
have to have.
*Andrew
Message 9 of 12 (96 Views)

Re:

11-07-2003 01:18 AM in reply to: *Andrew
Thanks John,  I hadn't thought of
that.

 

Now if there were only an option to do this per
scale.  Or maybe just a simple toggle to keep the device scale relative to
the scale used when the device was inserted.

 

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

In the device style->view tab->scaling, set
scaling to override scale, and whatever your annotation would be at the
desired scale (3/32"@1/8" scale = 9)


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"You could lock the scale of the devices in the
second file to whatever scale it is"

 

How do I do this?


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

You could lock the scale of the devices in
the second file to whatever scale it is, then they would come in at that
size, but you wouldn't be limiting your default device styles to one
scale, a little annoying yes, man I thought there was an option to keep
devices from auto-scaling when you change the drawing scale
property.  I guess I just dreamed it up, cause I sure can't find
it now. =/


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

When xreffing in the second plan that is a
different scale, all the symbols take on the annotation scale of the
drawing being xreffed into.  I have found two work
arounds:

 

1.  Xref in the floor plan and scale
it up twice.  So if you are working with 1/8th scale and you want
to add a 1/4" room blowup, scale up the plan to be used as 1/4" and
use 1/8" symbols, annotations and viewports.

 

2.  The second method is
similar.  Use a separate drawing for the 1/4" scale blowup. 
This drawing should be set up to be 1/4".  When xreffing it into
the 1/8" drawing, scale it up twice and use an 1/8"
viewport.

 

In my experiences, it is bad practice to
scale geometry that has been drawn true size.  But this program
gives no other option.

 

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I
was able to use multiple scale in a dwg. In order to do this I had to
xref in a second dwg. with the other scale. I thought that the
dimscale would have worked, it worked in previous releases, then again
not much has stayed the same in this release. Xrefing seperate dwg's
should solve your problem although it means creating an extra file
that you shouldnt have to
have.
*Sonnier, Michael
Message 10 of 12 (96 Views)

Re:

11-09-2003 11:47 PM in reply to: *Andrew
I fully agree, AutoDesk should have corrected this
a version or two ago! I don't know about the multiple model spaces, but I would
be willing to give it a try versus what they have now. Maybe even change it from
the entire drawing setup to viewport specific? I think AutoDesk should seriously
review this "flaw" and fix it.

I understand the direction they are heading with
annotation scale based devices, however they should make the tags and other
annotation all work the same not just the devices update per drawing setup
scale.

 

As long as I am on the band wagon:

 

Make the light fixtures, HVAC diffusers,
etc.. "devices" break/mask the Architectural ceiling grids thru an xref !
We have the Architectural department xrefing our (M & E) drawings and then
using there own devices to in their ceiling grid to create a reflected ceiling
plan. This leave a lot of room for error and is a double up of work. I think it
is idiotic having to do it twice. This is similar to the plumbing fixtures. This
stuff needs to be fixed!


--

Michael Sonnier


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Thanks John,  I hadn't thought of
that.

 

Now if there were only an option to do this per
scale.  Or maybe just a simple toggle to keep the device scale relative
to the scale used when the device was inserted.

 

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

In the device style->view tab->scaling,
set scaling to override scale, and whatever your annotation would be at the
desired scale (3/32"@1/8" scale = 9)


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"You could lock the scale of the devices in
the second file to whatever scale it is"

 

How do I do this?


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

You could lock the scale of the devices in
the second file to whatever scale it is, then they would come in at that
size, but you wouldn't be limiting your default device styles to one
scale, a little annoying yes, man I thought there was an option to keep
devices from auto-scaling when you change the drawing scale
property.  I guess I just dreamed it up, cause I sure can't
find it now. =/


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

When xreffing in the second plan that is
a different scale, all the symbols take on the annotation scale of the
drawing being xreffed into.  I have found two work
arounds:

 

1.  Xref in the floor plan and scale
it up twice.  So if you are working with 1/8th scale and you want
to add a 1/4" room blowup, scale up the plan to be used as 1/4" and
use 1/8" symbols, annotations and viewports.

 

2.  The second method is
similar.  Use a separate drawing for the 1/4" scale blowup. 
This drawing should be set up to be 1/4".  When xreffing it into
the 1/8" drawing, scale it up twice and use an 1/8"
viewport.

 

In my experiences, it is bad practice to
scale geometry that has been drawn true size.  But this program
gives no other option.

 

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I
was able to use multiple scale in a dwg. In order to do this I had
to xref in a second dwg. with the other scale. I thought that the
dimscale would have worked, it worked in previous releases, then
again not much has stayed the same in this release. Xrefing seperate
dwg's should solve your problem although it means creating an extra
file that you shouldnt have to
have.

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