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does plumbing have a 3D option?

17 REPLIES 17
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Message 1 of 18
bil-with-one-L
796 Views, 17 Replies

does plumbing have a 3D option?

I've been playing with some plumbing features for the first time over these past two days... and I can't see any 3D display stuff on the topic. -- Is plumbing strictly 2D? -- and if so... doesn't that sorta defeat the purpose of building a 3D model and displaying the MEP in 3D? -- I really hope that I just haven't figured it out yet and that someone will tell me that there is a 3D option... if not... I'm gonna cry... no really... I'm so happy with my 3D hvac work and all of the walls doors and windows I've taught myself to create over this past month and if there isn't a 3D plumbing option I'm really gonna cry. This could be disasterous.... surely there is a 3D plumbing option and I just can't find it... please let me know how or where to find it.
17 REPLIES 17
Message 2 of 18
AGG
in reply to: bil-with-one-L

I've been gooing through Building Plumbing Tutorial. It's only 2D. They would'nt be showing Schematic Diagram if plumbing is available in 3D, would they?
Message 3 of 18

okay.. well i've wiped my eyes dry and I'm accepting this bummer of a realization (i'm still hopeful that someone knows something that I just haven't figured out yet). -- So I guess the next thing to ask is: what does everyone else do about this... do we just not care that we can't see a 3D representation of a plumbing system? Do we revert to vanilla autocad solids and not only cad the thing via ABS plumbing tools but then draw the 3D representation manually as well? Do we use the mechanical piping tools to create a 3D representation? -- is there an option I'm not thinking of? My bosses want to see this in 3D... they want to see what this program that I convinced them to buy is capable of and I've sold them on my misunderstanding that it is not only parametric but creates 3D design. I can't lie to them... I've got to tell them something... is there a future intention to include 3D plumbing? -- I'm finding the tool to be great so far... even despite this little misunderstanding and some of the quirky problems I run into... but I'm still looking for a ray of sunshine before I go get my (beep) chewed. so if anyone has something to offer... please do.
Message 4 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: bil-with-one-L

Hi Bil -

 

Yes - plumbing does have a 3D option.  The 2D
option that you are looking at is a response to the need to quickly layout
plumbing systems that show connectivity, general layout, and code
compliance.  The 3D plumbing is the pipe feature with additional fittings
and pipe types that are typical of plumbing systems.  To access the 3D
plumbing, navigate to the Options -> Building Systems Catalogs -> choose
the pipe catalog, navigate up then down the folder structure to pick
the Plumbing Pipe US Imperial catalog then exit the options.  You can
view the plumbing fittings that are available by navigating to your tool palette
-> Pipe -> Add Pipe Fitting.  The threaded fittings conform to ASME
B16.3 or B16.12 and glued fitting conform to ASTM D3311.

 

To make 3D plumbing systems - use the pipe system
definitions and add pipe just as you always do for pipe.

 

I hope this helps!

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I've
been playing with some plumbing features for the first time over these past
two days... and I can't see any 3D display stuff on the topic. -- Is plumbing
strictly 2D? -- and if so... doesn't that sorta defeat the purpose of building
a 3D model and displaying the MEP in 3D? -- I really hope that I just haven't
figured it out yet and that someone will tell me that there is a 3D option...
if not... I'm gonna cry... no really... I'm so happy with my 3D hvac work and
all of the walls doors and windows I've taught myself to create over this past
month and if there isn't a 3D plumbing option I'm really gonna cry. This could
be disasterous.... surely there is a 3D plumbing option and I just can't find
it... please let me know how or where to find it.
Message 5 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: bil-with-one-L

Bil - See my prior post.  Yes - we will
continue to refine the 3D plumbing.


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
okay..
well i've wiped my eyes dry and I'm accepting this bummer of a realization
(i'm still hopeful that someone knows something that I just haven't figured
out yet). -- So I guess the next thing to ask is: what does everyone else do
about this... do we just not care that we can't see a 3D representation of a
plumbing system? Do we revert to vanilla autocad solids and not only cad the
thing via ABS plumbing tools but then draw the 3D representation manually as
well? Do we use the mechanical piping tools to create a 3D representation? --
is there an option I'm not thinking of? My bosses want to see this in 3D...
they want to see what this program that I convinced them to buy is capable of
and I've sold them on my misunderstanding that it is not only parametric but
creates 3D design. I can't lie to them... I've got to tell them something...
is there a future intention to include 3D plumbing? -- I'm finding the tool to
be great so far... even despite this little misunderstanding and some of the
quirky problems I run into... but I'm still looking for a ray of sunshine
before I go get my (beep) chewed. so if anyone has something to offer...
please do.
Message 6 of 18

thanks Peter, -- Now the tears I'm wiping are tears of joy. -- Okay... so did I just miss this in the concepts guide and/or tutorials? -- thanks again.. this is what i needed to hear.
Message 7 of 18
AGG
in reply to: bil-with-one-L

Hi Peter~

This Plumbing Pipe US Imperial.apc catalog, does it only exist in the imperial system. I'm using the metric system and navigating my folders for a catalog with the name Plumbing Pipe US Metric.apc, Is it me not finding the file or should I go and have a large cup of coffee and start search again.
Message 8 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: bil-with-one-L

Unfortunately, at this time, the 3D plumbing exists
only as US imperial content...  :^(


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
Hi
Peter~

This Plumbing Pipe US Imperial.apc catalog, does it only exist in the
imperial system. I'm using the metric system and navigating my folders for a
catalog with the name Plumbing Pipe US Metric.apc, Is it me not finding the
file or should I go and have a large cup of coffee and start search
again.

Message 9 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: bil-with-one-L

Peter,

 

I don't want to seem ungrateful, but could you tell
me how I could establish a category for plumbing pipe in the Options dialog so
as to keep both the mechanical and the plumbing pipe catalogs open.

 

Thanks

Dave


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Hi Bil -

 

Yes - plumbing does have a 3D option.  The
2D option that you are looking at is a response to the need to quickly layout
plumbing systems that show connectivity, general layout, and code
compliance.  The 3D plumbing is the pipe feature with additional fittings
and pipe types that are typical of plumbing systems.  To access the 3D
plumbing, navigate to the Options -> Building Systems Catalogs -> choose
the pipe catalog, navigate up then down the folder structure to pick
the Plumbing Pipe US Imperial catalog then exit the options.  You
can view the plumbing fittings that are available by navigating to your tool
palette -> Pipe -> Add Pipe Fitting.  The threaded fittings conform
to ASME B16.3 or B16.12 and glued fitting conform to ASTM
D3311.

 

To make 3D plumbing systems - use the pipe system
definitions and add pipe just as you always do for pipe.

 

I hope this helps!

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I've
been playing with some plumbing features for the first time over these past
two days... and I can't see any 3D display stuff on the topic. -- Is
plumbing strictly 2D? -- and if so... doesn't that sorta defeat the purpose
of building a 3D model and displaying the MEP in 3D? -- I really hope that I
just haven't figured it out yet and that someone will tell me that there is
a 3D option... if not... I'm gonna cry... no really... I'm so happy with my
3D hvac work and all of the walls doors and windows I've taught myself to
create over this past month and if there isn't a 3D plumbing option I'm
really gonna cry. This could be disasterous.... surely there is a 3D
plumbing option and I just can't find it... please let me know how or where
to find it.
Message 10 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: bil-with-one-L

You can't add a category for plumbing. The pipe add command wouldn't know
which catalog to use. You can create separate profiles to switch between the
catalogs.

Currently you are only allowed to have a single catalog for a specific
domain open at any given time.

jason

"Dave Ellis" wrote in message
news:B6A1A585DF8E57448B15D4F0676C4D0E@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Peter,
>
> I don't want to seem ungrateful, but could you tell me how I could
establish a category for plumbing pipe in the Options dialog so as to keep
both the mechanical and the plumbing pipe catalogs open.
>
> Thanks
> Dave
> "Peter Terwilliger [Autodesk]" wrote in
message news:EE496A12E30510404357539304C89C3B@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Hi Bil -
>
> Yes - plumbing does have a 3D option. The 2D option that you are
looking at is a response to the need to quickly layout plumbing systems that
show connectivity, general layout, and code compliance. The 3D plumbing is
the pipe feature with additional fittings and pipe types that are typical of
plumbing systems. To access the 3D plumbing, navigate to the Options ->
Building Systems Catalogs -> choose the pipe catalog, navigate up then down
the folder structure to pick the Plumbing Pipe US Imperial catalog then exit
the options. You can view the plumbing fittings that are available by
navigating to your tool palette -> Pipe -> Add Pipe Fitting. The threaded
fittings conform to ASME B16.3 or B16.12 and glued fitting conform to ASTM
D3311.
>
> To make 3D plumbing systems - use the pipe system definitions and add
pipe just as you always do for pipe.
>
> I hope this helps!
>
> "bil-with-one-L" wrote in message
news:f175dd4.-1@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I've been playing with some plumbing features for the first time over
these past two days... and I can't see any 3D display stuff on the topic. --
Is plumbing strictly 2D? -- and if so... doesn't that sorta defeat the
purpose of building a 3D model and displaying the MEP in 3D? -- I really
hope that I just haven't figured it out yet and that someone will tell me
that there is a 3D option... if not... I'm gonna cry... no really... I'm so
happy with my 3D hvac work and all of the walls doors and windows I've
taught myself to create over this past month and if there isn't a 3D
plumbing option I'm really gonna cry. This could be disasterous.... surely
there is a 3D plumbing option and I just can't find it... please let me know
how or where to find it.
Message 11 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: bil-with-one-L

Hi Dave -

 

Jason is right - you can only have one catalog open
at a time.  But, there is no reason to maintain the catalog structure as
provided out of the box.  You could combine the two catalogs using catalog
editor - that probably would give you something close to what you want... 
The concepts guide and the tutorials has information regarding how to do
this.

 

I hope this helps.


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Peter,

 

I don't want to seem ungrateful, but could you
tell me how I could establish a category for plumbing pipe in the Options
dialog so as to keep both the mechanical and the plumbing pipe catalogs
open.

 

Thanks

Dave


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Hi Bil -

 

Yes - plumbing does have a 3D option.  The
2D option that you are looking at is a response to the need to quickly
layout plumbing systems that show connectivity, general layout, and code
compliance.  The 3D plumbing is the pipe feature with additional
fittings and pipe types that are typical of plumbing systems.  To
access the 3D plumbing, navigate to the Options -> Building Systems
Catalogs -> choose the pipe catalog, navigate up then down the folder
structure to pick the Plumbing Pipe US Imperial catalog then exit the
options.  You can view the plumbing fittings that are available by
navigating to your tool palette -> Pipe -> Add Pipe Fitting.  The
threaded fittings conform to ASME B16.3 or B16.12 and glued fitting
conform to ASTM D3311.

 

To make 3D plumbing systems - use the pipe
system definitions and add pipe just as you always do for pipe.

 

I hope this helps!

 


style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
I've
been playing with some plumbing features for the first time over these
past two days... and I can't see any 3D display stuff on the topic. -- Is
plumbing strictly 2D? -- and if so... doesn't that sorta defeat the
purpose of building a 3D model and displaying the MEP in 3D? -- I really
hope that I just haven't figured it out yet and that someone will tell me
that there is a 3D option... if not... I'm gonna cry... no really... I'm
so happy with my 3D hvac work and all of the walls doors and windows I've
taught myself to create over this past month and if there isn't a 3D
plumbing option I'm really gonna cry. This could be disasterous.... surely
there is a 3D plumbing option and I just can't find it... please let me
know how or where to find
it.
Message 12 of 18
asperks
in reply to: bil-with-one-L

Dear Sirs,

[Autodesk], Peter Terwilliger says... "Yes - plumbing does have a 3D option."

This is disingenuous, to say the least. The fact is, there is no 3D option for plumbing services in ABS, and this includes the latest version, 2006, which we have. Well, no system that can actually produce anything that can either assist in the design of plumbing, or assist in the creation of drafting contract documents (which is the thing we're paid for)

For example... Let's say I wanted to add a valve into any pipe. The schematic representation of the valve would be a different symbol, and more importantly, a different size, than the actual 3D representation of the same part. The equivalent 'Device' in the electrical section will have a 2D diagramatic representation of a light (which could be scaled accordingly) where the 3D remains the actual size of the object. Attached entities (like wires) would then be clipped around the diagramatic symbol when and if it was re-scaled in a different viewport. So this is something you can actually use.

So Peter talks about a '3D plumbing' in ABS as if it can actually do something. Where in reality the 3D plumbing features that now exist in ABS work so long as you don't actually need to attach the plumbing to anything.

Which isn't really of much use at all.

So you are still required to produce a schematic plumbing representation over a design, and then create pluming content in the piping catalogs (including duplicated parts/devices), making sure that any connected equipment is duplicated in both the schematic and 3D representations of the same systems.

Sincerely,

Anthony
Message 13 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: bil-with-one-L

If you absolutely have to have your plumbing drawn in 3-D, why not just use
Mechanical Pipes??

--
Matt W
"Children are like TV sets. When they start acting weird, whack them across
the head with a big rubber basketball shoe."
Message 14 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: bil-with-one-L

That is pretty much how we do our stuff.

Michael

"Matt W" wrote in message
news:4989877@discussion.autodesk.com...
If you absolutely have to have your plumbing drawn in 3-D, why not just use
Mechanical Pipes??

--
Matt W
"Children are like TV sets. When they start acting weird, whack them across
the head with a big rubber basketball shoe."
Message 15 of 18
asperks
in reply to: bil-with-one-L

" If you absolutely have to have your plumbing drawn in 3-D, why not just use Mechanical Pipes??"

Dear Sir,

As I state above, the reason that this is not an option, is because the mechanical piping system of ABS doesn't address the schematic nature of fixtures such as valves. It is OK for building contractors (which I suspect are the only people that actually bother doing it in such a way), because all you're really interested in is the actual connection points of the component parts.

But a 1:50 plumbing design drawing, which contains a diagramatic valve symbol (an elongated cross with two closed ends) will be 10 times too long for the actual pipe connections that will be exist at each end. The connection points of the pipes will in actuality, be almost at the centre of the valve symbol itself.

So you basically require two separate models. One for the schmatic representation of the plumbing design, and a separate 3D representation that is modelled using the ABS piping tools, simply to give the ability to use clash-detection.

You might as well use your existing AutoCAD tools to create the schematic pluming drawing, for all the good ABS will assist you.

Sincerely,

Anthony
Message 16 of 18
BHashman
in reply to: bil-with-one-L

Hi Anthony,

I appreciate your comments and you are a welcome asset to the ABS discussion group. As a design build piping contractor I do indeed need the schematic style of display in drawings and the 3d construction coordination with the all-important bill of materials drawings. This is possible with ABS in the piping, not the plumbing component. But you have to do some fine tuning.

For example: the ball valve that is a part of the piping package has a plan view display representation that is not acceptable as a standard schematic valve symbol. But no worries here because the plan view display representation can be changed to whatever your industry standard dictates. We prefer the elongated cross you mentioned. See the attached screen shot.

This is accomplished by changing the pan view block of the object and also having a masking block blank out the pipe ends that overlap into the valve symbol. The plan view block can be set to scale to your needs along with the masking block. While in the 3d view you get the 3d looking ball valve. See attached.

This is some of the content I will be discussing at AU. I hope to see you at AU in my class!

Respectfully,

Bill Hashman
Total Mechanical, Inc.
AU2005 << ME22-2: How to Survive in Construction with Autodesk® Building Systems >>
Message 17 of 18
BHashman
in reply to: bil-with-one-L

Since I can only attach one object per post... here is the dwg that contains these objects.

Please study how this was done by the following:

Right click on a valve and edit mvpart style.
On the views tab notice the display block that is inserted for the Two Line - Top view.

This dwg is at 1:100 metric scale so you may wish to change the scale settings to fit your needs.

I hope this helps!

Bill Hashman
Total Mechanical, Inc.
AU2005 << ME22-2: How to Survive in Construction with Autodesk® Building Systems >>
Message 18 of 18
Anonymous
in reply to: bil-with-one-L

Hey Bill -

Thanks for filling in for me!
weeks.> Anyway, yes, since the display system controls all MvParts the
same, the valves, without customization as noted, appear in outline form in
plan. Although there already are ways to make individual and MvPart styles
appear as desired, it is tedious and time consuming. The ABS product team
recognizes this as a huge problem and has this high on their priority list
to fix for a coming release.

Plumbing does have a 3D option- you can use the DWV fittings (introduced in
the plumbing pipe catalog in R2004). You will find difficuties with the
generating the proper elbows and in managing slope pipe connections. It
also does not have the ability to leverage the calculation aids using
fixture units that the 2D schematic stuff has. A lot of folks use 2d in a
floor plan basis and then show the 3D DWV piping in the vertical chases
between floors where space can be at a premium.

wrote in message news:5005042@discussion.autodesk.com...
Since I can only attach one object per post... here is the dwg that
contains these objects.

Please study how this was done by the following:

Right click on a valve and edit mvpart style.
On the views tab notice the display block that is inserted for the Two
Line - Top view.

This dwg is at 1:100 metric scale so you may wish to change the scale
settings to fit your needs.

I hope this helps!

Bill Hashman
Total Mechanical, Inc.
AU2005 << ME22-2: How to Survive in Construction
with Autodesk® Building Systems >>

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