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Valued Mentor
mdhutchinson
Posts: 2,287
Registered: ‎11-18-2003
Message 1 of 10 (1,385 Views)

Sloped pipe systems - tutorial

1385 Views, 9 Replies
04-20-2012 08:15 AM

I'd like to gather info - tutorial - or methods on how to do slopped pipe systems in MEP 2013?

Like how to specify the invert elevation start point of the run... slope the 'horizontal' pipe, then do a vertical plumb segment, then take off again on a 'horizontal' slopped segment and specify the start invert elevation... then how to a connect branch of sloped pipe.

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Keith.Brown
Posts: 1,085
Registered: ‎03-13-2008
Message 2 of 10 (1,383 Views)

Re: Sloped pipe systems - tutorial

04-20-2012 09:07 AM in reply to: mdhutchinson

You can specify the invert elevation by chosing the bottom center elevation on the justification dropdown on the properties palette once you start the pipeadd command.  I would recommend going into your piping preferences (_aecbpipingpreferences) and changing your slope format to a rise over run.  That way you can change to slope to 1/8 or 1/4 or whatever your prefer.  In the chicagoland area, this is the format of the way it is done, although I know other areas use a percentage for the grade such as 1% or 2%.  I would also draw using a split screen with one screen in plan view and the other in an isometric view.  Please turn on your compass and make use of it.  Using the "p" command while running mep objects will allow you to turn your piping in any plane regardless of the current UCS.  The "p" command will change the plane of the compass which allows you to route piping in any plane without switching ucs.

 

When routing sloped piping you are going to need to think about your layout and start from either your highest point or your lowest point and draw from start to finish.  It is not a good idea to draw two different areas and then attempt to connect them.  It can be done but it is much easier drawing from one start point and then branching off from that location.  I also have several different routing preferences set up for my different types of elbows and sanitary tees/combos.  It is easier to let the routing preference place the part then going back and manually placing the part.  There are several different types of cast iron waste elbows and they are all used depending on the situation.  In Chicago we have to follow code and the code says Cast Iron Hub and Spigot piping for all waste.  Long Radius elbows on a vertical to a horizontal run and intermidiate elbows on a horizontal to a vertical run.  Quarter bends are only to be used for vent lines.  They are not allowed for waste.  All of these different types of elbows are setup on a different routing preference so when I need to switch elbows I just switch the routing preference.

 

I would also put all of your fittings on tool palettes so you can grab a fitting when you do need to manually place a fitting.  Its faster than searching for a fitting.

 

In addition, I never stretch sloped piping when moving a run with several branches with several different slope values.  Its impossible to get it to stretch in a way that you would expect.  Instead I use the move command and use the centerline of a sloped pipe as my base and make my move using the center line of the pipe as my guide.  I use the pcon and the pcur snaps all of the time while using sloped pipe.  You should add them to your right click snap menu.  I am surprised that Autodesk has not already done this for out of the box setup.

 

Hope this information helps at list a little bit.


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Valued Mentor
mdhutchinson
Posts: 2,287
Registered: ‎11-18-2003
Message 3 of 10 (1,378 Views)

Re: Sloped pipe systems - tutorial

04-20-2012 09:44 AM in reply to: Keith.Brown

One problem I see... when drawing the slopped pipe on the horizontal direction... we need to specify the elevation at the invert (Bottom Center justification)... then when drawing the vertical segment switch back to Center justification... but then after the vertical segment setting the justification back to bottom center is not the bottom center... it is the left side center. We cannot seem to find a work a round for this.

How do you get past it?

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Keith.Brown
Posts: 1,085
Registered: ‎03-13-2008
Message 4 of 10 (1,351 Views)

Re: Sloped pipe systems - tutorial

04-23-2012 05:20 PM in reply to: mdhutchinson

I just exit out of the pipeadd command and start again.   It will reset itself.  PIA I know but better than nothing.


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Valued Mentor
mdhutchinson
Posts: 2,287
Registered: ‎11-18-2003
Message 5 of 10 (1,333 Views)

Re: Sloped pipe systems - tutorial JOSHUA B?

04-24-2012 06:32 AM in reply to: Keith.Brown

Joshua B...  Are you aware of this issue... and is it fixed in 2013?

Contributor
info
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎10-14-2009
Message 6 of 10 (1,326 Views)

Re: Sloped pipe systems - tutorial

04-24-2012 07:04 AM in reply to: mdhutchinson

Hi, I Hope I understand you right,

we have this Problem in Germany with the cast Iron pipes.

We found a workaround:

You draw the slope pipe horizontal...., Now, before you change to the vertical direction, you disable the disable the "fitting tolerance" (hope I got the right word) in the routing options on the Property Palette,

now you write the new elevation in the property palette and go on drawing horizontal, that's it.

 

But before continue drawing, don't forget to enable the "fitting tolerance" again...

 

 

I've attached a picture with the property Palette and the "fitting tolerance"

Joeycool

MEP 2010, 2011, 2012 (DACH)
Valued Mentor
mdhutchinson
Posts: 2,287
Registered: ‎11-18-2003
Message 7 of 10 (1,315 Views)

Re: Sloped pipe systems - tutorial

04-24-2012 08:41 AM in reply to: mdhutchinson

I am wondering what issue this solves?  Does it solve the issue with Bottom Center not actually being the Bottom Center... but Left center, or right center?

 

Before adding the vertical run, and you turn off 'Fitting Tolerance'... does this also take care of sloping the verical run and not making it exactly vertical... or do you also have to set the slope amount to zero as well as turning off 'Use Fitting Tolerance'???

 

I would like to see a setting to disregard slope when the user draws a vertical segment.  Perhaps this is what the 'Use Fitting Tolerance' does???

Valued Contributor
s.lawrence
Posts: 71
Registered: ‎04-18-2011
Message 8 of 10 (1,311 Views)

Re: Sloped pipe systems - tutorial

04-24-2012 09:02 AM in reply to: mdhutchinson

Yup, I'm with you on that... the amount of times I've forgotten to change a 1:70 vertical fall to 0 and end up with a slighty angled pipe is unmeasurable! While we're on the issue of sloped pipe, with the basic coupling on a cast iron sloped run, do your elbows show correctly? See my post from a while ago which seemed to just disappear...

 

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-MEP/Piping-Elbow-at-Fall-Display-Problem/td-p/3339519

 

The only thing with the 2-piece coupling is that when clash detection is run they all clash with each other and I end up with a shed load of 'pipe fitting-pipe fitting' problems on the clash detection palette.

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Keith.Brown
Posts: 1,085
Registered: ‎03-13-2008
Message 9 of 10 (1,305 Views)

Re: Sloped pipe systems - tutorial

04-24-2012 10:33 AM in reply to: mdhutchinson

What the underlying problem is the fact that the pipe "rotates" when changing elevations or changing direction. This occurs with ductwork, conduit, cabletray, etc.  It is a long standing issue with Autocad MEP that they have not "fixed" yet.  If you search these same boards you will find numerous posts on the subject.  I run into the problem alot with the bottom of duct not actually being the bottom but it is the top.  It is very noticable when you are changing the location of a tap.  You tell it you want it on the bottom of the duct and it will show up on the top.

 

Autodesk is well aware of the problem, they just have not yet come up with a solution.  I would recommend filling a support case outlining the issue you are having.  The more support requests they receive the more likely they are to take a look at solving the problem.


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Employee
gregg.stanley
Posts: 118
Registered: ‎01-19-2006
Message 10 of 10 (1,247 Views)

Re: Sloped pipe systems - tutorial

05-04-2012 09:53 PM in reply to: Keith.Brown

the orientation is due to rotating the vertical pipe to keep the rise drop at 0 deg angle so the bottom of a vertical pipe does not exist and the pipe is rotated to align the rise drop. When drawing horizontal again, the cursor location is dependent on the draw direction, but the pipe is located correctly. if you draw left to right, and off the rise draw up or down, the cursor is located correctly, if you draw in the same direction the cursor is to the top side relative to plan, but the pipe is located correctly.

 

After the next point selected in plan view the cursor resets to the correct position of bottom center since it now knows the pipes location to plan view.

 

HTH

 

Gregg Stanley

 



Gregg Stanley
QA Analyst
AEC
Autodesk, Inc.

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