MEP Panel Dimensions

[trent.chambers]

Can the dimensions of the MEP panels be easily modified? If you are laying out an electrical room sometimes 1/4" can be critical for code clearance. The available space seems to get smaller all the time. I have created 3D blocks with attributes, but a parametric or MVpart would be more convenient.
Thanks

[Martin__Schmid]

Panels are based on 3D blocks, so, yes, they can be easily modified.
If you are using the Panels for circuiting, then Panels should be your preference. However, if you are not circuiting, then certainly, it would be easy to create a parametric MvPart to represent a Panel.

[yishu_xu]

Yes, the Panels in AutoCAD MEP counld't be easily modified on sizes. While the MvParts for Boards are not parametric ones, they are blockbased. So I suggest to creating some 3d blocks with predefined dimensions, then define these blocks to Panels.
Therefore, the customization is an additional work.
I think AutoCAD MEP is a platform, you can customize anything you want, certainly, you have to spend some additional time.

[trent.chambers]

Thanks for your help. Here is my problem. I deal with 3 or 4 gear manufacturerers and within each of these there could be 10 or 20 different panel can sizes. It would be great if I could create one part for all the possible can sizes. Then I could insert that one "block" and just change the dimensions, panel name, and other attributes as necessary. The other attributes include things like: voltage, buss amperage, main size, and where the panel is fed from. Currently I create an individual 3d solid block for each size.
It seems this would require the part to be parametric. I have played with this process but had very little success. I am also not sure I would be able to attach the attribute info to it. If attributes are not then possible, would the data then have to be property data sets?
Thanks

[trent.chambers]

Thanks Martin, Can you tell me how to modify the size of the MEP panels? I have not had any luck with this. The sizes certainly do not appear in the properties pallette. I rarely do circuit design so these features of the panels are not usefull to me. I get drawings from multiple Engineers who generally have allready done the circuiting.
Thanks

[yishu_xu]

Hi Trent,
You could create one cabinet or gear with Mvparts in Content Builder.
If you don't know how to create, I would like to update a video later when I am have time to record it.
But it seems that you have to wait at least two days. Sorry.

[alan.skipper]

Trent

What you need to bear in mind is that AutoCAD MEP (Mechanical Electrical Plumbing) should be renamed MPWLBoE (Mechanical Plumbing With a Little Bit of Electrical). I'm sure that you would have noticed that 95% of the electrical content is mechanical content renamed and consequently rareley represents electrical equipment

I have asked many times if the Autodesk MEP developers have even spoken to electrical engineers (particularly U.K. ones) over the years and nobody has told me yes or no.

As for the cable calculation facility; I can't imagine that anybody would trust it since it doesn't even allow for volt drop, a major factor in calculating cable sizes.

[yishu_xu]

Hi Alan,
The electrical contents are too few to match your requirements, right? If you need Electrical equipments, maybe you can add it to wishlist, or provide your requirement to autodesk product support.
In fact, voltage drop can be calculated, but you have to add some property set definition for wires, it seems a little bit complicated.

Trent,
Content builder provides us a tool to create the equipment we need. But it will take your time to learn and be familar with it.
I think panels are for electrical layout (include wire, devices, etc), while mvparts for plan without showing electric connection.

[andsham]

Trent:

I work in a similar position. I use simple squares and extrusions. I know what you mean by having many manufactures all at different sizes. I find just extruding and shifting into position is a lot less hassle that praying to get AutoCAD's MEP system designed properly. By the time Autodesk has this content shaped with manufactures we'll be hounding them to get Revit's electrical system up to speed.

I you want to put a little effort into panels (I am guessing these are dead blocks used for Navis collisions) I would build a block library for panels you know will always by their like the standard 20" x 5.75" panels and such. I always create my gear by hand for the simple reason that gear varies so much.

Good luck

[trent.chambers]

I have been creating panels with 3d solids for nearly 10 years. I add NEC clearance lines and attributes. Recently I have added some dynamic controls to them such as alignment and rotate to make them easier to use. (It sure would be nice if the block editor had 3d capabilities). If created in 3d, elevation views become possible.
It is absolutely necessary for the panels and switchgear to be sized accurately so the electrical rooms can be designed properly.
I am about to embark on another adventure with content builder to see what I can do. If anyone is interested, I am attaching a file with my panels, transformers and disconnects.

[yishu_xu]

Since you have AutoCAD MEP, then why do you still use 3d solid to create panels, why not trying panels or Mvparts provided by AutoCAD MEP? I have defined two panels according to your dwg. Please take a look.
I will submitt a Mvpart later.

[trent.chambers]

I have created a parametric part over the past couple of days. It seems to work pretty well, but I can not enter custom dimensions. During insertion I want be able to insert the part either with the default dimensions or enter dimensions as necessary (width, depth,height). I have these data types as "constant" ( the other options are calculation. list, and table and I don't want any of these do I?) I do have the custom size flag option checked.
During insertion, the values appear but are grayed out and can not be changed. The same is true when I select mvpart modify.
This is the first time I have seriously tried to create an MVPart, so I have made some progress but haven't worked on it since Tuesday. After the basic part is working, there are other things I want to add, such as self-adjusting NEC clearance lines, I want the top of the panel to always be at 6'-6", and there are various bits of info to add (property sets maybe?). I may consider eventually adding connectors. The problem is I may want to connect 1 conduit or it may be 25 conduits of various sizes.
I bailed to work on some conduit stuff using property sets.
Any suggestions? Thanks again.

[Martin__Schmid]

>> I have these data types as "constant" ( the other options are calculation. list, and table and I don't want any of these do I?)
Actually, constant means just that... never changing.
You likely don't want calculation in this case, however, I suspect you do want List or Table.
Table means you define a table that specifies the values for a particular size of the part... i.e., if you have a specific manufacturer/model, they're likely to have a specified LxWxH, manufacturer name, model number, etc.. in such a case, a Table is used to fill out all the params for that particular size/make/model.
List is a bit more flexible (and thus less specific). I.e., you can define separate lists of available values for L, W, and H. In some cases I've created lists with every integer size from 1 to 120 (to avoid the 'do you want to make a custom size' message) Of course, if you want fractional sizes, you end up with a lot of options in the list (it helps to do this in Excel then copy/paste to your part definition)
The other option is a List with a single value (and as you indicate, use the custom sizing flag), this would all you to specify any value (but as indicated above, you'll be prompted about custom sizing).
Finally, the one thing to note is that there are some issues with MvParts that have no connectors. In particular, in this case, I found that when I created a panel with a flexible LxWxH, after inserting the part, MvPartModify didn't let me change the size... i.e., I could chose a new size, but after clicking OK, the size wouldn't updat the model. So, you may want to make your part with at least one connector on it... that seems to resolve the issue.

[trent.chambers]

I suspected the lack of connectors might become an issue, I was just trying to get the basics to work first. I just changed the data type to list, and now I can change the size through MVPart modify, though the part does not change and the size entered will not stick. So I guess that may be some progress 🙂 I guess I'll go back and add at least 1 connector and see what happens. I can not seem to locate where the list or table of sizes should be created. Can you point me where to look? I did not want to have to create a list or table, but if that is necessary, I will deal with it. I was hoping to just enter a default size panel and be able to modify the size and other parameters as needed.
Boy this tool is a pain to learn! This is my first serious try at using it.
Thanks for your help.

[dhofmannBQHWY]

Hi Martin,

I would have thought that the 2 would be one and the same. Coming from the Eng side now starting in the Contractor BIM side I'd think we could use one thing for both. Either be able to modify the physical sizes along with the electrical values in the panel or all the MVPart versions have the elect info usable in the Calcs & circuiting.

If I could make a request, it would be a lesson on how to modify the panels to make them in categories by like vendors. An Eaton same electrical size can be different from a GE, Square D, Siemens,...Albeit by fractions of an inch. From the engineering side I'd think they would want to specify down to a model number level to guarantee that everything fits into the room to avoid RFI's.

Being new to the MEP side of Autodesk products, thanks for confirming that this is the proper route for now.