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*Fry, B
Message 1 of 12 (119 Views)

Content Builder_Mv Parts

119 Views, 11 Replies
03-11-2003 01:43 AM
I am trying to model some parts from our catalog. I can not seem to get the
models to properly constrain. I have posted a file in customer files. The
problems I am having are as follows:

1) Once additional sizes are added to the part the part becomes distorted.
For example if I change the distance of "LenA1=48" to say 60 the rectangular
profiles and extrusions to either side of the modified profile do not move
as expected. The overall shape of the model should remain the same with only
the dimensions changing.

2) Is it possible to constrain an extrusion to a profile?

3) This one is not so much on the modeling side as the organization side.
Should we be saving our parts in a different catalog (Currently we are
saving in the all installed MV Parts catalog) to make updates to the
software easier to implement in the future without losing our custom parts?
If the answer is yes how do we go about implementing this so that we are
able to use the custom catalog along with the standard catalog?

4) Is it possible to add associative dimensions and annotations to a
parametric mv part in the modeler and then use layers or the display system
to control which viewports they show up in?

Thanks in advance.

Shane,
*[Autodesk], jason martin
Message 2 of 12 (119 Views)

Re: Content Builder_Mv Parts

12-14-2003 12:04 AM in reply to: *Fry, B
Hi Shane -

We have a number of "issues" here...

1. You can't specify a "list" in Model Parameters. Model parameters is for
equations only, not lists. Lists go in Size parameters. You currently have
LenA1 = 48,60,72. Pick one of those for the Model Param, put the others in
the size params.

2. I'm not sure what you are looking for here, but extrusions have to belong
to a profile. They can't belong to anything but a profile.

3. You should generally be fine, but don't edit "our" content. If you need
to change our stuff please make a copy and rename it. If we have an update
that updates the content (which all of them probably will) we check to see
if what we have "on the CD" is newer than what you have installed. Whichever
of the two is the newest is the one that's left (at least this is the case
with R3???). Your custom content will remain in the content folders. Once
you launch the product you will probably need to run a catalog regen to get
you content "available" to the add jigs, but we shouldn't ever "damage" your
custom files (but we might change "our" files).

4. Currently, no. Objects that are not content builder objects are pretty
much ignored. :-(

5. There are no connectors on this part??? What is this??? LenA2 and Len A3
are dimensioning nothing, but have distances? Did you use horizontal or
vertical distances for them???

6. It's hard to fix a part when I'm not sure what it should look like...
but... I've posted a reply to your message in cf with another file. I'm not
sure what it's supposed to do, but it's doing something??

jason


"B Fry" wrote in message
news:3FD97134D39E71B571E36F4D60804A38@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> I am trying to model some parts from our catalog. I can not seem to get
the
> models to properly constrain. I have posted a file in customer files. The
> problems I am having are as follows:
>
> 1) Once additional sizes are added to the part the part becomes distorted.
> For example if I change the distance of "LenA1=48" to say 60 the
rectangular
> profiles and extrusions to either side of the modified profile do not move
> as expected. The overall shape of the model should remain the same with
only
> the dimensions changing.
>
> 2) Is it possible to constrain an extrusion to a profile?
>
> 3) This one is not so much on the modeling side as the organization side.
> Should we be saving our parts in a different catalog (Currently we are
> saving in the all installed MV Parts catalog) to make updates to the
> software easier to implement in the future without losing our custom
parts?
> If the answer is yes how do we go about implementing this so that we are
> able to use the custom catalog along with the standard catalog?
>
> 4) Is it possible to add associative dimensions and annotations to a
> parametric mv part in the modeler and then use layers or the display
system
> to control which viewports they show up in?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Shane,
>
*Fry, B
Message 3 of 12 (119 Views)

Re:

12-14-2003 12:04 AM in reply to: *Fry, B
Jason,

Thanks for the Reply. I'm new to ABS we crossgraded to ABS3 from Autocad so
I'm still learning.

1. I have corrected the location of the part sizes.(Moved to size
parameter.)

2. "Is it possible to constrain an extrusion to a profile?" I wasn't asking
about the original profile used to create the extrusion. For example I'm
trying to determine if I create a rectangle profile and then extrude it
vertically can I then add another profile to the top face of the first
extrusion extrude the second profile and somehow constrain the second
profile to the first extrusion? Possibly it would have to be the two
extrusions that are constrained together? (I guess the problem I am having
is trying to determine how 2 collinear / coplanar lines would be constrained
together.)

3. Thanks, on this one I just wanted to make sure we would not lose our
custom content at the next upgrade. I wasn't sure if the whole catalog gets
rewritten during an upgrade or individual parts.

4. It would be very useful to be able to add associative dimensions that
would change with the part size and annotations (only show up in certain
viewports) to the part file. Our company has our own line of hood systems
for wholesale / retail nationwide and we are a design build contractor
within Colorado, so being able to produce a single model that we can extract
floor plans, cd's, and equipment submittals from would be a plus. Oh well,
you can't have everything.

5. There are no connections on this part because I have not added them yet.
There will be a 4" high duct connector on the hood top plane in the model
but, at this point with the problems I have been having I'm trying to tackle
it in stages and get each stage to work / documented. We have several
hundred part families to add loosely based on this first / simplest part. As
far as what this part is it is a commercial kitchen hood system. The large
rectangle in the middle is the hood itself. The narrower rectangles on the
sides and back are standoff's. The bottom of this part is generally inserted
at 6'6" aff against one or more walls. The standoffs are required on any
side that is against a wall, so the idea was to create the standoffs as part
of the same part as the hood at the most common size 3" and then allow a
wide range of sizes so that the standoffs can be resized at the time of
insertion. (I have already found one problem with this we are not able to
use 0" as a size to eliminate the standoff on the sides where there are no
walls.) Lena and Len A3 are dimensioning the width of the profile for the
standoffs they are just distance dimensions. Should I be dimensioning the
extrusions instead of the profiles? It seems to update the model when I
change the value for the dimension.

6. Please see the updated file in customer files under the same subject. I
have attached a catalog page of what I am trying to model. I have also
included a new part file. (Your file seems to work however I am not able to
reproduce the behavior it produces and I was trying to model it as simply as
possible with a minimum of work planes and dimensions.) The new part file I
have attached almost works however for some reason I can not seem to get the
whole profile to extrude only a part of it extrudes. I am trying to extrude
the whole footprint from hood base plane to hood top plane.


Thank you for taking the time to help me with this.

Sincerely,

Shane Fry
FryCo Systems, Inc.

jason martin [Autodesk] wrote in message
news:2A19082881556AEF76454DEDF227DBD2@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Hi Shane -
>
> We have a number of "issues" here...
>
> 1. You can't specify a "list" in Model Parameters. >



> 2. I'm not sure what you are looking for here, but extrusions have to
belong
> to a profile. They can't belong to anything but a profile.
>
> 3. You should generally be fine, but don't edit "our" content.



> 4. Currently, no. Objects that are not content builder objects are pretty
> much ignored. :-(
>
> 5. There are no connectors on this part??? What is this??? LenA2 and Len
A3
> are dimensioning nothing, but have distances? Did you use horizontal or
> vertical distances for them???
>
> 6. It's hard to fix a part when I'm not sure what it should look like...
> but... I've posted a reply to your message in cf with another file. I'm
not
> sure what it's supposed to do, but it's doing something??
>
> jason
*Fry, B
Message 3 of 12 (119 Views)

Re:

12-14-2003 12:04 AM in reply to: *Fry, B
Jason,

I decided to give the method in your file a try. I think that I understand
most of it. There are a couple of things I can't figure out when looking at
the file you posted.

You added some geometry to leftendoffset, rightendoffset, and backoffset
work planes, some lines and points. What is the purpose of these? The points
seem to have a coincident constraint on them but when I click on the
constraint in the tree I'm not seeing what they are constrained to.

Thanks again,

Shane
*[Autodesk], jason martin
Message 5 of 12 (119 Views)

Re:

12-14-2003 12:04 AM in reply to: *Fry, B
Hi Shane -

See comments inline...

"B Fry" wrote in message
news:C1242FFC57D1F037004D6BD227F87291@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Jason,
>
> Thanks for the Reply. I'm new to ABS we crossgraded to ABS3 from Autocad
so
> I'm still learning.
>
> 1. I have corrected the location of the part sizes.(Moved to size
> parameter.)

That's better!

>
> 2. "Is it possible to constrain an extrusion to a profile?" I wasn't
asking
> about the original profile used to create the extrusion. For example I'm
> trying to determine if I create a rectangle profile and then extrude it
> vertically can I then add another profile to the top face of the first
> extrusion extrude the second profile and somehow constrain the second
> profile to the first extrusion? Possibly it would have to be the two
> extrusions that are constrained together? (I guess the problem I am having
> is trying to determine how 2 collinear / coplanar lines would be
constrained
> together.)
>

Yes, there are a couple ways that come to mind to do this (I think)
lemme make sure that I understand what you want first. See diagram below
___x___
| |
| |
|______|

First Extrusion (side view), where x is the "center" of the top face of the
rectangular extrusion, that I want to constrain the next extrusion to.
_______
| |
| x |
|______ |
First Extrusion (top view), where x is the location that the extrusion
should be constrained "about"
___
_|___|_
| |
| |
|_____|

First extrusion with second extrusion on the top of it(side view), correct
(yea, I know they aren't the same size but I'm drawing with text).
_______
| ___ |
| |_x_| |
|______ |

Top view of both extrusions

One way that I can think of to do this would be to not use extrusions, but
paths. I could draw 2 lines then extrude two rectangles along the lines. The
lines can easily be constrained so that they are parallel and that their end
points meet (coincedent constraint and parallel constraint).

Another method would be to use multiple workplanes, and use a plane
extrusion to get from one plane to the other, and some reference geometery
on the plane to make the "centers" line up.



> 3. Thanks, on this one I just wanted to make sure we would not lose our
> custom content at the next upgrade. I wasn't sure if the whole catalog
gets
> rewritten during an upgrade or individual parts.

The apc file gets re-written, but it's easily updated with a catalog
regen.


>
> 4. It would be very useful to be able to add associative dimensions that
> would change with the part size and annotations (only show up in certain
> viewports) to the part file. Our company has our own line of hood systems
> for wholesale / retail nationwide and we are a design build contractor
> within Colorado, so being able to produce a single model that we can
extract
> floor plans, cd's, and equipment submittals from would be a plus. Oh well,
> you can't have everything.

Yes, it would be nice to be able to include annotation and dimensions
in the model, I'll add it to the wishlist


>
> 5. There are no connections on this part because I have not added them
yet.
> There will be a 4" high duct connector on the hood top plane in the model
> but, at this point with the problems I have been having I'm trying to
tackle
> it in stages and get each stage to work / documented. We have several
> hundred part families to add loosely based on this first / simplest part.
As
> far as what this part is it is a commercial kitchen hood system. The large
> rectangle in the middle is the hood itself. The narrower rectangles on the
> sides and back are standoff's. The bottom of this part is generally
inserted
> at 6'6" aff against one or more walls. The standoffs are required on any
> side that is against a wall, so the idea was to create the standoffs as
part
> of the same part as the hood at the most common size 3" and then allow a
> wide range of sizes so that the standoffs can be resized at the time of
> insertion. (I have already found one problem with this we are not able to
> use 0" as a size to eliminate the standoff on the sides where there are no
> walls.) Lena and Len A3 are dimensioning the width of the profile for the
> standoffs they are just distance dimensions. Should I be dimensioning the
> extrusions instead of the profiles? It seems to update the model when I
> change the value for the dimension.
>

OK, having an idea of what we are trying to make helps me quite a bit. I
saw the 0 thing last night when I was working on my version of your part. I
can imagine that 0 length items would be hard to deal with from a "model
generation" standpoint, but I'll add a request for this to the wishlist as
well. I think that the placement of your dimensions may have fooled me into
thinking that something strange was happening with them.


> 6. Please see the updated file in customer files under the same subject. I
> have attached a catalog page of what I am trying to model. I have also
> included a new part file. (Your file seems to work however I am not able
to
> reproduce the behavior it produces and I was trying to model it as simply
as
> possible with a minimum of work planes and dimensions.) The new part file
I
> have attached almost works however for some reason I can not seem to get
the
> whole profile to extrude only a part of it extrudes. I am trying to
extrude
> the whole footprint from hood base plane to hood top plane.

The profile that you've created for the Hood Base Profile is fairly
complicated and intersects itself (the intersecting itself portion, is why I
think only part of the profile is extruding). Workplanes seem complicated,
but in many cases they actually simplify other constraints and complicated
profiles. I can repeat the file that I posted last night with one that
doesn't use so many workplanes, but I'm going to have a lot more dimensions
and constraints to do it (at least I think I could do it a different way)
I'll try to check with the developer that created content builder tomorrow
and verify that the "self intersecting profile" is the problem, but it's a
fairly good bet..

>
> Thank you for taking the time to help me with this.
>
Glad to help!
*[Autodesk], jason martin
Message 5 of 12 (119 Views)

Re:

12-14-2003 12:04 AM in reply to: *Fry, B
Hi Shane -

The geometry that I added to those offset workplanes isn't just plain
geometry, it's something of a special case of "reference" geometry. These
were all created from the Add Geometry -> Projected Geometry items. The way
this works is that it creates geometry on one work plane that is
"constrained" to geometry on another workplane. If the size of the "hood"
changes, these points (and lines) move in the rightendoffset workplane to
match the movement of the extrusion that makes up the hood segment. I've
also constrained the profile that I drew on the rightendoffset to be "tied"
to these points.

What the overall effect of this is that when LenA2 changes (the "depth" of
the hood), the "depth" of the profile on the right end offset changes as
well, as it is constrained to the reference points, that are constrained to
the hood itself, which is controlled by LenA2.

Does that make any sense???

jason


"B Fry" wrote in message
news:49AE4422534075647738B3143956CA61@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Jason,
>
> I decided to give the method in your file a try. I think that I understand
> most of it. There are a couple of things I can't figure out when looking
at
> the file you posted.
>
> You added some geometry to leftendoffset, rightendoffset, and backoffset
> work planes, some lines and points. What is the purpose of these? The
points
> seem to have a coincident constraint on them but when I click on the
> constraint in the tree I'm not seeing what they are constrained to.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Shane
>
*Fry, B
Message 7 of 12 (119 Views)

Re:

12-14-2003 12:04 AM in reply to: *Fry, B
Jason,

I appreciate all the help you have provided me on this project. I'm almost
there and I understand the content builder a great deal better however I
have run up against a brick wall. It may be a bug or I may be doing
something wrong but, I am getting the following error: Exception in
c:\path\AecbContentBuilder33.arx Arx Command. Unhandled Exception
C0000005 (Access Violation Reading 0x42636545) at address 65469903h.

I was able to reproduce this in the file you posted and the files I have
been working on.
To reproduce this in the file you posted add a Model Dimension to the base
profile of the hood (should be 10") then go to model parameters and change
the extrusion to a different hight. I get the above error and then ABS
closes.

Is it just my setup here or is this a bug?

Thanks,

Shane
*Fry, B
Message 8 of 12 (119 Views)

Re:

12-14-2003 12:04 AM in reply to: *Fry, B
> To reproduce this in the file you posted add a Model Dimension to the base
> profile of the hood (should be 10") then go to model parameters and change
> the extrusion to a different hight. I get the above error and then ABS
> closes.


This should have read:

To reproduce this in the file you posted add a Model Dimension to the
extrusion of the base
profile of the hood (should be 10") then go to model parameters and change
the extrusion to a different height. I get the above error and then ABS
closes.

Thanks,

Shane
*[Autodesk], jason martin
Message 9 of 12 (119 Views)

Re:

12-14-2003 12:04 AM in reply to: *Fry, B
Hi Shane -

Check the same thread in cf again. New version posted, and without all of
the offset workplanes. In fact, I think everything is on the xy plane. There
are more constraints and more dimensions, but in the limited testing I've
done it seems to be working???

jason

"B Fry" wrote in message
news:5DA1F7F827D26863DC5A53A873BADEFD@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> > To reproduce this in the file you posted add a Model Dimension to the
base
> > profile of the hood (should be 10") then go to model parameters and
change
> > the extrusion to a different hight. I get the above error and then ABS
> > closes.
>
>
> This should have read:
>
> To reproduce this in the file you posted add a Model Dimension to the
> extrusion of the base
> profile of the hood (should be 10") then go to model parameters and change
> the extrusion to a different height. I get the above error and then ABS
> closes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shane
>
*[Autodesk], jason martin
Message 9 of 12 (119 Views)

Re:

12-14-2003 12:04 AM in reply to: *Fry, B
Hi Shane -

That definitely looks like a problem. Yes, I was able to re-produce.

I'll try to find another method of getting what you want without using the
model dimension. I've already tried one other method that also seems to have
produced a crash. I'll try to work on it tonight and see if I can find
another solution to making the height adjustable.

jason

"B Fry" wrote in message
news:5DA1F7F827D26863DC5A53A873BADEFD@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> > To reproduce this in the file you posted add a Model Dimension to the
base
> > profile of the hood (should be 10") then go to model parameters and
change
> > the extrusion to a different hight. I get the above error and then ABS
> > closes.
>
>
> This should have read:
>
> To reproduce this in the file you posted add a Model Dimension to the
> extrusion of the base
> profile of the hood (should be 10") then go to model parameters and change
> the extrusion to a different height. I get the above error and then ABS
> closes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shane
>

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