Any 3D HVAC out there?

[Anonymous]

Hi

I'd like to know if anybody is drawing their
hvac systems in 3d? I'd like to think that's the
future and get in on the ground floor. But from
where I stand most firms are still drawing in 2D.

Is there a future in 3D hvac duct layout?

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

I came in from the field, a plumber by
trade, and worked with the old Softdesk program.  That took
about 3 or 4 months to get to the point that I was being
productive.  That is learning from scratch,having little computer
background and no Acad experience at all.  The transition from
that to BS4 took an additional 4 weeks.  Learning the catalog
setup and getting things set up in a company format.  I think the program
has a very good UI.  Once one person understands most of the program, it is
very easy to indoctrinate others into using it.   I do not pretend to
understand all that the program can do, I am trying to develop some VB skills to
make it more productive, but I know that any time spent learning is well worth
the cost.  Different people have different backgrounds and understanding,
so maybe I was one of the slower learners.  My first book was Autocad for
Dummies, so you can imagine how green I started out.

Mike

"Griftin" <thmlawren@aol.com>
wrote in message
href="news:f19d7e0.18@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f19d7e0.18@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">Hey
mike,

What is the training time for ABS?

Griftin

[advandes]

continued......Ah, training time. This will obviously vary depending on the individual, but if you look at an individual who is on the cutting edge of Autocad, and is being introduced to ABS for the first time, I would plan on 8-12 hours per discipline for training time, (HVAC, Piping and Plumbing) with a learning period of around 4 weeks to reach 95% proficiency. Another thing to consider is customizing the software to meet your CAD Standards. You can cut down on the learning curve if you have someone setup your Template files, Layer Key Styles, System Definitions, etc.. prior to training. This would eliminate having to spend time learning and developing these “behind the scenes settings”. Another problem that I face all the time is getting people on-board with ABS. So many “old-timers” refuse to step out of their box to learn something new, and managers seem to let them get away with their archaic ways…..Aaron: Independant Contractor specializing in Commercial and Industrial HVAC and Piping..and Traing ABS

[Anonymous]

Hi Griftin,

We actually have seen that ABS customers that
happen to not get an ADT model will take advantage of the fact that ABS is
actually built on top of ADT (and therefore includes all the features of
ADT).  They will model the architectural elements for the areas that are
most complex in order to achieve better coordination and communication with the
architect/owner about requirements.

Additionally, I know of many architectural firms
that use ADT, but as a rule of thumb send consultants regular AutoCAD DWG files
(using the Export to AutoCAD command).  If you let the architectural firms
that you work with now about ADT...they just may be using it and would probably
be thrilled about sending you the ADT model.  If they don't have ADT...send
them to our website and maybe they'll get interested.

BTW...ABS is useful and provides many benefits even
if you do NOT get an ADT model.

Cheers,

Julian

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"Griftin" <
href="mailto:thmlawren@aol.com">thmlawren@aol.com> wrote in message
href="news:f19d7e0.16@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f19d7e0.16@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

Thanks
Andrew,

I'll ask my Vendor about ABS. I think there's a future
in drawing 3d
ductwork in the ceiling space. We use
AutoCAD for all our work and now I'm
having to go
back and draw section of different areas of the floor plan

to find out what's going on in the ceiling space.

There's got to be an easier way. But what if the Architects
arent's
using ADT? I outa luck uh? this is really screwed up.

Griftin.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Julian

That is a concern of mine, and those are some very good
ideas. What about training, using ADT & ABS? Are there
books available? A tutorial that comes with the programs?

Griftin.

[Anonymous]

Yes.  There are a few good books on ADT and at
least one good book on ABS...you can find these on Amazon.com.  The product
CD's come with tutorials and your local reseller has "Workshop Trial Editions"
for both ADT & ABS.

Cheers,

Julian

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"Griftin" <
href="mailto:thmlawren@aol.com">thmlawren@aol.com> wrote in message
href="news:f19d7e0.22@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f19d7e0.22@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

Thanks
Julian

That is a concern of mine, and those are some very good
ideas. What
about training, using ADT & ABS? Are there
books available? A tutorial
that comes with the programs?

Griftin.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Mike,

That makes me feel better. I'v been using AutoCAD
since R10, so, I should pick this stuff up in a day or so...smile.

Seriously, I am glad you didn't say 7 to 8 months. So the program is not that bad to learn uh? Julian was telling
some ways on how to coordinate the program with others.

Griftin

[Anonymous]

...be right back

[Anonymous]

For now I'll see how S8 gives me the
information I need. I could talk to A vendor
but that's what they sale, I needed a biased opinion.
I'll need to talk to one anyway to see how the two compare.

Thanks to all y'all.

[Anonymous]

If you are in San Jose, I dare say you have heard
of a company called Therma, they have been using 3D for HVAC for years now, give
them a call and speak to John Mack

another good reference site is Delta Technology in
Seattle, talk to Chris Johnson.

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"Griftin" <
href="mailto:thmlawren@aol.com">thmlawren@aol.com> wrote in message
href="news:f19d7e0.3@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f19d7e0.3@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

Hey
Andrew

I'm a Mechanical engineer working for a hvac firm in
san jose. my
supervisor always wants section views
of the ceiling showing duct, pipes,
structural, etc.
to make sure we coordinate with the other team members.

this can get time consuming. oh, we are drawing from 2D
SO...you get
the picture. Is there an easier way?

My second question is...is there a market out there
for someone to do
just 3D HVAC work for engineering
firms?

Thanks

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[Anonymous]

Hi,

I've been doing 3d HVAC drawings (not design, only for the control systems to display), for about 2 years now. I can say my workload keeps me busy...So I guess I would answer YES, there's a market for 3d HVAC drawings.

I would post my website, but I don't want it to seem like "spam".

Jeff

[Anonymous]

I'm been using BS2004 for 6 months now. I use 3D HVAC, to be able to to see if there are any conflicts between ducts, pipework and cable trays, above for example ceilings.

I can´t see any reason not to print out the 3D model as well as the 2D printouts. Contractors I have been working with say that if they have 3D model the dont need sections.

Ragnar (Iceland)

[Anonymous]

Hi

What type of training do you have with ADT?
How long did it take before you were comfortable
with ABS2004? what would be the benefits of
using ABS2004? Is there a market for 3Dhvac?

[Anonymous]

hi There

Jeff

say what is the "missing link" to your website?
i may be (soon) getting a chance to do entire hospital(s) in 3d

(cant wait)

i got about 32,000 hours with bare-bones autocad
and about 6,000 hours doing 3d with just acad solids

0 hours ADT

does that mean That i am ADT deficient?
This is my very 1st Time checking into BS

more Than idle curious, i have done a fair amount of 3d work
but no serious BS work (not yet at least) here is a link to some online stuff

(forgot the link)

http://www.viz2000.com/proj/main.html

but it is NOT BS related

definately interested in doing an entire prohect in 3d
arch. stru. plbg. mech. elec. hospital equipment etc..

any Info is greatly apprreciated

Thanks

Randy

[SIMMS]

I have been drawings 3D duct and piping for almost 8 years. We have been using ABS since the first version was available (we were a beta tester). Our consulting engineering firm deals mainly with hospitals, universities, and military bases and we do all ductwork and piping in 3D. It really simplifies the coordination process and makes sections s breeze. Learning the program is a little frustrating since it works differently than past 3D add-ons. However, once you understand how it works you can draw and modify systems fairly fast. As to where the industry is headed as far as 3D, I believe you should get in soon. Our major clients love it!!!

[Anonymous]

3D HVAC, A new word to me. I am a Chinese , starting using ABS one month ago. My boss wants me to draw ductwork, pipework and cables by ABS using its 3D function in order to show any interference in the ceiling. Our projects are always villa and rooming house. I just covered (maybe just skim) the Concepts Guide of the ABS, and I was confused by so many settings such as lots of styles. I am so frustrating. Does anybody can give me some advice to help me out. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

It's not a very exciting suggestion, but the tutorials are an excellent way to become more familiarized with how ABS works and how styles are used. They cover most of the areas that you'll need to use and give you a step-by-step instruction on how you might use them. It can be a little tedious to spend a day going through them, but it's alot more helpful than just clicking around in the program. Good luck! Rebecca -- Rebecca Richkus Building Systems Product Design Autodesk, Inc. "jamesford" wrote in message news:27672400.1083224522518.JavaMail.jive@jiveforum2.autodesk.com... > 3D HVAC, A new word to me. I am a Chinese , starting using ABS one month ago. My boss wants me to draw ductwork, pipework and cables by ABS using its 3D function in order to show any interference in the ceiling. Our projects are always villa and rooming house. I just covered (maybe just skim) the Concepts Guide of the ABS, and I was confused by so many settings such as lots of styles. I am so frustrating. Does anybody can give me some advice to help me out. Thank you!

[dzy]

We have been using 3D for HVAC Drafting for some time now. Before ABS2004 we had used a combination of proprietary lisp routines and rebis structural modeler to do up the structural members and Rebis Autoplant Piping for the piping plus a whole lot of AutoLisp routines for handling ACIS Solid models of the ductwork and equipment. In fact, we had partially modelled the new Lester B. Pearson International Airport (Toronto) Terminal 1 mechanical rooms using these methods (just AutoCAD out of a box heavily customized for production) (http://www.gtaa.com). We had also modelled the air distribution mechanical room at the new Clinical Services Wing at Toronto General Hospital and the subsequent Transplant Institiute addition using these methods (http://www.uhn.ca/tgh/clinical_services_building/index.). We had carried out the structural design and drafting of the diesel general exhaust pipe anchors at the new Casino Niagara and Pearson Interational Airport using ACIS Solid Models and Rebis Autoplant Objects. The problems with these older methods were the heavy customization requirements and the very large file sizes since everything ultimately had to be an ACIS Solid model for the projections to work. Right now we are using ABS2004 together with our ACIS 3D customization on the redevelopment of the Orillia Soldiers Memorial Hospital, the New University of Toronto University College Residence and the Pier F Project at Pearson International Airport. In order to make a long story short - those of us preparing fabrication and construction installation documents do use 3D but a clear understanding of HVAC, Structural Engineering Principals, Architecture and Construction Engineering is in order to properly carry out ones duties.

With regards,

Mr. Deniz Yazici, D.Tech.,B.A.Sc., M.A.Sc.,M.A.O.C.S.,P.Eng.
President & Principal Engineer
D.Z.Y. Drafting & Design Services
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

[Anonymous]

Hey Randy,

Sorry for the late response. Here's a link to my work:
http://www.pixelperfectgraphics.biz

It's been a while since I've updated my page, but again, I don't design the systems. I only draw them using 3dsmax for the automation systems to use. I came here on a quest to find a program that will convert a 2D Mechanical CAD file into 3D (ductwork only really).

I need to continue using 3dsmax for animations, etc.., but if I can find a program that will convert that ductwork to 3d for me, my life would be a lot easier!

Any tips?

Thanks,

Jeff

[Anonymous]

Check out the following product CADDuct Solids. We use this software to generate 3d Building Services layouts within the UK. The product is also available for the US market.
It's very good, download the demo. www.cadduct.com

A sample layout can be seen from the following link www.desco.uk.com , click onto the Morton Palms project site to show an iso/rendered layout.

[Anonymous]

I do 3d hvac shop drawings. All of our parts are custom built to include all needed fabrication information. When Im done drawing, I click on schedule, drag a box around everything and bam. I export the schedule to Excel, print it out and fax it to my duct manufacturer. I use approved structural shop drawings to draw all the steel in 3d. Then I create Mv parts for all my equipment using approved submittal data. Because its all drawn and coordinated in 3d, our fabrication orders are extremely accurate... Its like a complete piece together kit for our guys in the field. Every piece is labeled by equipment # or area for sorting... So far we have done about 8 big schools using this system, and each school we kicked ass on.

Yes i think 3d is the future.