Any 3D HVAC out there?

[Griftin]

Hi

I'd like to know if anybody is drawing their
hvac systems in 3d? I'd like to think that's the
future and get in on the ground floor. But from
where I stand most firms are still drawing in 2D.

Is there a future in 3D hvac duct layout?

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

All ABS ductwork is drawn in 3D.

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"Griftin" <
href="mailto:thmlawren@aol.com">thmlawren@aol.com> wrote in message
href="news:f19d7e0.-1@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f19d7e0.-1@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

Hi

I'd like to know if anybody is drawing their
hvac systems in 3d? I'd
like to think that's the
future and get in on the ground floor. But from

where I stand most firms are still drawing in 2D.

Is there a future in 3D hvac duct layout?

Thanks.

[Griftin]

Thanks but what is ASB ductwork?

[Anonymous]

ABS = Autodesk Building Systems.

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"Griftin" <
href="mailto:thmlawren@aol.com">thmlawren@aol.com> wrote in message
href="news:f19d7e0.1@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f19d7e0.1@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

Thanks
but what is ASB ductwork?

[Griftin]

Hey Andrew

I'm a Mechanical engineer working for a hvac firm in
san jose. my supervisor always wants section views
of the ceiling showing duct, pipes, structural, etc.
to make sure we coordinate with the other team members.
this can get time consuming. oh, we are drawing from 2D
SO...you get the picture. Is there an easier way?

My second question is...is there a market out there
for someone to do just 3D HVAC work for engineering
firms?

Thanks

[Anonymous]

Hey Griftin,

I'm probably not the best person to answer this
question.  I'm still in the setup stage with this software.  I haven't
played with the sectioning capabilities to know how well they work.  But I
would venture to guess the biggest obstacle would be with the drawings supplied
by the architect and structural engineer.  If you work for a consulting
engineering firm you will know that not all architects or structural engineers
use architectural desktop.  If you have 2d floor plans and 3d HVAC, the
sectioning capabilities would be rather useless.  It might work to create a
section of just the ABS content and then overlay it on the section supplied by
the architect.  But like I said, I haven't tried any of this.

I'm not sure what the market for 3D HVAC is
like.  I work in MT where the market is very limited to begin with.  I
think there would be a good market for people who are well trained in
ABS. It is an expansive piece of software that takes some time to
learn, especially if self-taught.  Not to mention there isn't a whole lot
of competition out there for ABS.  I expect most mech/elec engineering
firms will eventually migrate in this direction.

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

Andrew

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"Griftin" <
href="mailto:thmlawren@aol.com">thmlawren@aol.com> wrote in message
href="news:f19d7e0.3@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f19d7e0.3@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

Hey
Andrew

I'm a Mechanical engineer working for a hvac firm in
san jose. my
supervisor always wants section views
of the ceiling showing duct, pipes,
structural, etc.
to make sure we coordinate with the other team members.

this can get time consuming. oh, we are drawing from 2D
SO...you get
the picture. Is there an easier way?

My second question is...is there a market out there
for someone to do
just 3D HVAC work for engineering
firms?

Thanks

[Anonymous]

Griftin,

I work for an HVAC contractor and I feel your pain
with the sections.  This is one of the greatest time saving features
of this software.  Once your system is drawn in 3D making a section of any
area of that system is a snap.   Even if the base architectural plan
is in 2D I just go through and trace the plan with ADT wall in the areas
that I need and then generate the sections.  Its very hard to sell the idea
of drawing in 3D to your boss until they ask for a section of a certain area and
it takes less than a minute to generate it.  This is one area where the
help menu will actually help you out.  It does a pretty good job of
explaining the steps that are required to create a section. 

hope this helps

Regards,

~Rob

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"Griftin" <
href="mailto:thmlawren@aol.com">thmlawren@aol.com> wrote in message
href="news:f19d7e0.3@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f19d7e0.3@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

Hey
Andrew

I'm a Mechanical engineer working for a hvac firm in
san jose. my
supervisor always wants section views
of the ceiling showing duct, pipes,
structural, etc.
to make sure we coordinate with the other team members.

this can get time consuming. oh, we are drawing from 2D
SO...you get
the picture. Is there an easier way?

My second question is...is there a market out there
for someone to do
just 3D HVAC work for engineering
firms?

Thanks

[jmcfaddn]

I have been one of the biggest critics of the Bldg Sys. software and its shortcomings. The section feature is something they did get right and have done an excellent job with. Our biggest concern at this point is the processing and RAM taxation 3d drawings put on our pc's. 2.1ghz, 1gig RAM is still not enough when dealing with a medium sized floorplan with 3d HVAC. Our PC's come to an absolute crawl when even trying to xref 2 floors together.

[Griftin]

Thanks Andrew

I may try ABS.

[Griftin]

Thanks Rob,

Do you know if there are many companies
using ABS? I don't want to plunk down
$$$$$ for a program that is hardly used.

Do you know if there is a big demand for
3D hvac work if someone could do it fast,
using ADT & ABS? Of course this person
would know how to read structural drawings
as well.

I'am trying to get a feel for where 3D hvac
is heading.

Thanks.

[advandes]

Hello to all....I have been using ABS for almost two years now, and would consider myself close to being 100% profficiant at using the HVAC, Piping and Plumbing packages. I truley believe there is somewhat of a misconception that because ABS is full functioning 3D software that you therefore must design and create everything in a 3D enviroment. I don't believe this is true. I think we can all use ABS as a 2D drafting tool as long as we are aware of a few simple rules. 1)Place Diffusers, Grilles etc. at a given elevation, say 9'-0. 2) Place all ductwork at B.O.D. equal to say 12'-0". 3) Place all piping at 10'-0" etc. etc...Just establish a set elevation for the various disciplines and create your plans from a plan view. By controlling the Display Representation settings you can view your components in Double Line or Single Line....I know this may sound to simple and I would agree you do need to understand the basics of what is happening in depth (Z coordinate). 90% of my projects require that I work in a 2D world and ABS works fine for that....Aaron

[Anonymous]

Griftin,

We are located in the North East and I have run
into quite a few contractors that are using it right now.  Yes you will
need to be able interpret drawings from all other trades involved.  One
warning,  If you are switching from S8 or similar software be prepare for a
rather steep learning curve.  There is limited documentation out there
right now, but I'm sure that will change in there near future.  To answer
your last question.  More and more we see jobs that come through that
require coordination drawings to be submitted before construction begins. 
In most of these cases it has only made sense to do this in 3d as changes in the
field  = $.  It is really worth it to get it right the first
time.

Regards,

~Rob

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"Griftin" <
href="mailto:thmlawren@aol.com">thmlawren@aol.com> wrote in message
href="news:f19d7e0.8@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f19d7e0.8@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

Thanks
Rob,

Do you know if there are many companies
using ABS? I don't want to
plunk down
$$$$$ for a program that is hardly used.

Do you know if there is a big demand for
3D hvac work if someone could
do it fast,
using ADT & ABS? Of course this person
would know how
to read structural drawings
as well.

I'am trying to get a feel for where 3D hvac
is heading.

Thanks.

[Griftin]

Hi advandes

Thanks for the information. Are you saying
your company coordinates its plumbing, HVAC,
piping, Fire Protection, Electrical, work, which
is all in the ceiling space from 2D drawings? Don't get
me wrong, my company does it to. It would seem to me that
ABS is not being used properly. Isn't it time we start
drawing what goes on in the ceiling space in 3D? I am
not a saleman, I sale no products for Autodesk but I would love to get in on the ground floor of the 3D HVAC market.

You say 90% is 2D, we do 100% 2D HVAC drawings. And I can't count the number of time I've had sketch out what's going on in the ceiling to see if I have room for this pipe or
that duct or a vent riser.

Is anybody using 3D HVAC?

[Griftin]

Yes I a going from S8 TO ABS.

Are you drawing in 3D?

Do you think there's a need for it?

Regards,

[Anonymous]

Hey Griftin,

Everyone using ABS is drawing 3D ductwork. 
The program has no 2D option.  ABS is set up in such a way that ductwork,
equipment, symbols, etc. show a certain way in plan view, a different way in
profile, a different way in model view, and so on.  The Plumbing module is
completely 2D.  The piping portion is completely 3D.  But you can set
up plumbing in the piping module and piping in the plumbing module.  The
electrical can be either 2D or 3D.  So with ABS you can
draw everything 3D or everything 2D with the exception of ductwork. 
We have decided to go with the second option and we will add more 3D
functionality as needed.

Have you tried out the ABS demo?  If you
haven't, I would highly recommend it.  It is hard to make sense of what
this program is like unless you spend some time with it.  Especially if you
are used to SDSK 8.  ABS is a much more intelligent program than SDSK and
it seems like Autodesk has laid the framework to make it even smarter.  Is
the software perfect? No, but for the most part the program works well
and when a few glitches are worked out, I think this software has a great
future.

Good luck with what ever you decide.

Andrew

"Griftin" <thmlawren@aol.com>
wrote in message
href="news:f19d7e0.11@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f19d7e0.11@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">Hi
advandes

Thanks for the information. Are you saying
your company coordinates its
plumbing, HVAC,
piping, Fire Protection, Electrical, work, which
is
all in the ceiling space from 2D drawings? Don't get
me wrong, my company
does it to. It would seem to me that
ABS is not being used properly. Isn't
it time we start
drawing what goes on in the ceiling space in 3D? I am

not a saleman, I sale no products for Autodesk but I would love to get in
on the ground floor of the 3D HVAC market.

You say 90% is 2D, we do 100% 2D HVAC drawings. And I can't count the
number of time I've had sketch out what's going on in the ceiling to see if I
have room for this pipe or
that duct or a vent riser.

Is anybody using 3D HVAC?

[advandes]

To continue....3D is only necessary if all trades are following along on the same course. What's the point of spending the extra time coordinating with all the trades if only the HVAC designer is the only one drawing in 3D. I am not by any means saying I don't coordinate my designs, I spend more time coordinating with paper and pencil when the other trades are not using ABS, and this I said happens approx. 90% of the time. The other 10% of the projects are created, coordinated, designed and drafted in 3D...I still use ABS and the 3D functions regardless of who is involved in the other trades (I don't have a choice), but the coordination is done differently when I am the only one using ABS. ABS is good, but it can be greatly improved....to be continues.....

Aaron

[Anonymous]

We draw in 3d not only for coordination purposes
but we also use it for our bill of materials.  I believe any wise
contractor, HVAC, Plumbing or Electrical would make this move in order to be
more cost effective.  I think the big problem at this time, is finding
people proficient in its use to make it worthwhile for small companies. 
The designer would not only need to understand the program, but have adequate
experience in the field to understand how things should be installed.

Mike

style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

"Griftin" <
href="mailto:thmlawren@aol.com">thmlawren@aol.com> wrote in message
href="news:f19d7e0.-1@WebX.maYIadrTaRb">news:f19d7e0.-1@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

Hi

I'd like to know if anybody is drawing their
hvac systems in 3d? I'd
like to think that's the
future and get in on the ground floor. But from

where I stand most firms are still drawing in 2D.

Is there a future in 3D hvac duct layout?

Thanks.

[Griftin]

Thanks Andrew,

I'll ask my Vendor about ABS. I think there's a future
in drawing 3d ductwork in the ceiling space. We use
AutoCAD for all our work and now I'm having to go
back and draw section of different areas of the floor plan
to find out what's going on in the ceiling space.

There's got to be an easier way. But what if the Architects
arent's using ADT? I outa luck uh? this is really screwed up.

Griftin.

[Griftin]

Exactly!! My thought completly.

I say we create a market.

[Griftin]

Hey mike,

What is the training time for ABS?

Griftin