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Setup for separating system object layer from system text layer

27 REPLIES 27
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Message 1 of 28
erikf
1377 Views, 27 Replies

Setup for separating system object layer from system text layer

I would like to draw a duct/pipe system with the object on one layer and the text for that object on another layer for each separate system. Is this possible?

For example:
Return Duct: M-HVAC-DUCR
Text for Return: M-HVAC-DUCR-TEXT

Supply Duct: M-HVAC-DUCS
Text for Supply: M-HVAC-DUCS-TEXT

It appears you can only use one label curve style for all the system definitions. Is it possible to have label curve style for each system def or have a layer key for the object and a layer key for the size/text in the "Design Rules" area of the Style Manager for that system?
27 REPLIES 27
Message 2 of 28
therain247
in reply to: erikf

I am going to take a stab at this one.

If some one knows how to manipulate the label curves style or the way labels create layers for insertion please speak up it would solve a problem i am having.

this is going to sound backwards, however this is how i worked around this particular problem. first go to the keystyles manager and create the layer styles you want to use. then in the duct systems definitions select your duct style then go to the design rules tab on the right it says Layer key: specify the text layer for the particular style you created M-HVAC-DUCR-TEXT. go to display properties tab and use the properties override to force the layer for the contour of the duct M-HVAC-DUCR.

go to the label curve style you are using, select the lable style annotation tab. under text options select use layer key from system definition.
remember you will have to do this to a template file save an insertable block drawing or redo it every time.
i hope this helps.
Message 3 of 28
Martin__Schmid
in reply to: erikf

Here's one way to do this:

Starting with drawing based on "Aecb Model (US Imperial Ctb).dwt"
Style Manager
Hvac Objects --> Duct System Defs
On Design Rules tab, add Minor 2 layer key overrides for the following systems as follows:
Supply: Supp
Return: Retn
Exhaust: Exhs

Under Multipurpose objects, Layer key styles,MEP Object - AIA 256 Color
For the LABEL layer key, check the box for Minor 2

Under Documentation objects, Label curve styles, select Standard-Duct
On the Label Style Annotation tab, check the box "User layer override from system definition"
Click OK

enter command DuctPreferences
On Ducts tab, make srue Apply Labels/Flow arrows is checked, and is set to 'Standard - Duct'
Click OK
Enter command DuctAdd

Route some Supply, Return, and Exhaust duct.. layers for ducts and labels should be as follows:
Supply : M-Duct-Std-Supp / G-Anno-Std-Supp
Return : M-Duct-Std-Retn / G-Anno-Std-Retn
Exhaust: M-Duct-Std-Exhs / G-Anno-Std-Exhs

You could tweak to get the convention you specified above, but to meet a requirement where you want labels on layers indepentent, but parallelling, the duct layers, the above should work.

I.e., in your case, set the Label layer key to M-HVAC-Std-Text, and tweak each of the duct system layer keys as you set forth. Then, follow the same override logic as above, but instead, you'd be overriding Minor 1. Though, you may want to consider the LABEL layer key and your overrides in a bit more detail... i.e., Conduit, Cable Tray, Pipe, Wire, Plumbing Line, and Schematic Line all use the same LABEL layer key, so you may adopt more overrides than outlined above.


Martin Schmid
Product Line Manager
Mechanical Detailing and Electrical Design
Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
Autodesk, Inc.

Message 4 of 28
therain247
in reply to: erikf

you'll be better off going with martins solution. i sat down this morning and tried to duplicate yesterdays results and have been unsuccessful. i know it can be done i did it before, i was able to do what you are asking for in 2004. to day however i am at a loss.
Message 5 of 28
erikf
in reply to: erikf

Thanks for the feedback but these will not work for my situation. It would be so nice just to specify a layer key for the object and a layer key for the annotation or label for said object (or at least specify the layer key of the label style). I'm surprised this issue hasn't been resolved by MEP 2010. I would like to add this to the MEP wish list. It should be a simple setting and shouldn't have to "trick" the program to thinking or doing what I want it to do.
Message 6 of 28
Martin__Schmid
in reply to: erikf

I've attached an example (2010) that does the layering per what you asked in your original post. I even extended to make the labels have different layer colors, as some users have stated that need as well. I won't disagree that it *could* be easier to setup, however, I believe it does meet the stated need with the current design/implementation. In considering the priority of any change, we need to consider once it is setup and configured, does it really matter to the majority of users how it got to that point.... and weigh that against other requirements for things that the software does not yet do at all.

Let me know if/how this doesn't work for your situation... I'd be happy to collect any requirements/wishes.

Cheers-
MS


Martin Schmid
Product Line Manager
Mechanical Detailing and Electrical Design
Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
Autodesk, Inc.

Message 7 of 28
RibbonHater
in reply to: erikf

Thx Martin,
I have been trying to do this since 06. I managed to get it to work when exported to ACAD however; I gave up on it. This really helps when isolating layers and making changes.

Regrads,

Rob W
Message 8 of 28
erikf
in reply to: erikf

Martin,

Thanks for the drawing example and works ok with just drawing one trade. But as you mentioned, the override technology doesn't work for multiple trade drafting since everything uses the same LABEL layer key. Please add to wish list to add a layer key or separate label curve style to an indvidual system definition. This would make things so much easier to implement AutoCAD MEP.
Message 9 of 28
therain247
in reply to: erikf

The layer key style has a key style named label. The label key style is the one used for labels.
Label has override check boxes to the far right.

Check the boxes for discipline designator, major, and minor.
Change the layer name under the layer settings column from -labl to -Text.
Go to the system definition under the style manager and change the discipline designator, major, and minor to what you want it to be.
Example: Discipline designator M, Major Duct, Minor Lpd. You are limited to the amount of text in your value. The limit is four. This will render a layer for the label named M-Duct-Lpd-Text.
Last but not least go to the label curve style you intend to use and change the text options to use layer override from system definition.
Message 10 of 28
Cy4
Contributor
in reply to: erikf

Martin,

Can you explain your steps creating the DuctLabelExample.dwg? The file works great for Supply, Return, and Exhaust systems. Creating a new system beyond these three is difficult to duplicate. I am missing something.

Thank you, in advance.
Message 11 of 28
BGeiger1478
in reply to: erikf

I have to agree w/ Cyp4er. I'm trying to duplicate waht you had and I'm not having much success.
I'm thinking I'm missing something w/ the layer keys.
One other item to note: When adding a label w/ LabelCurveAdd it defaults to the original layer. G-Anno-Duct-Text
How do you get both the auto label and an added label to behave the same way.

Thanks,
Bob G.
Message 12 of 28
Cy4
Contributor
in reply to: Martin__Schmid

Martin,

 

Need a reply.  Using the file you attached, if a display override is placed to turn off the visibility of insulation, any duct labels drawn thereafter are on a different layer and color.  Why are these two different components seemingly linked?

 

Thank you, in advance.

Message 13 of 28
Martin__Schmid
in reply to: Cy4

Are you by chance opening this in 2011?  I noticed that then I open my 2010 file in 2011 that the LK's I defined are no longer there... I'm not sure why that is, but I've logged an issue.



Martin Schmid
Product Line Manager
Mechanical Detailing and Electrical Design
Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
Autodesk, Inc.

Message 14 of 28
Cy4
Contributor
in reply to: BGeiger1478

No, I am working with all in 2010.  I don't understand why turning off insulation visibility in an override would have any effect on labels.  Layer keys in my template are set up similar to your example.  Regardless of using my template or your example, the problem is the same.  Another thing that is twisting me in knots is how by just adding the word "label" before new layer key styles does any system definition know to use that layer key when labeling.  It works.  But, how?  I ask because now, per your example, I have changed the layer for the out-of-the-box layer key, Label; but, this is now changed for all labels, including piping and electrical.

Message 15 of 28
Martin__Schmid
in reply to: Cy4

In AutoCAD MEP 2010, the steps are as follows.. we'll assume I'm creating a outdoor air system.
Open "DuctLabelExample.dwg" from my original post.
Open Style Manager
Browse to Multi-Purpose Objects > Layer Key Styles > MEP Object - AIA 256 Color
On the Keys tab, scroll down to LABEL
Note there I have keys defined with the appropriate resultant layer settings.
Create a new Key named LABEL-OUTDOOR.
Layer M-HVAC-DUCO-TEXT, color 112
Browse to HVAC > Duct System Definitions
Select Exhaust, Copy/Paste it
Rename Exhaust (2) as Outdoor
On Design Rules tab, change Abbreviation to OA
Change Layer Key to M-SY-DUCT-OUTDOOR_AIR
Change the Minor 1 override to DUCO
Click OK
Add a duct for the outdoor air system... label should be on M-HVAC-DUCO-TEXT



Martin Schmid
Product Line Manager
Mechanical Detailing and Electrical Design
Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
Autodesk, Inc.

Message 16 of 28
Martin__Schmid
in reply to: Cy4

The system doesn't know to use the 'LABEL-RETN' key explicitly... it does, however, know that it is creating the layer M-HVAC-DUCR-TEXT based on the LABEL key + the system overrides.  It finds the layer key associated with the layer M-HVAC-DUCR-TEXT, and it just so happens to be named LABEL-RETN, and generates the layer accordingly... the key could be called 'CYP4ER' in thsi case as far as AutoCAD MEP is concerned.



Martin Schmid
Product Line Manager
Mechanical Detailing and Electrical Design
Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
Autodesk, Inc.

Message 17 of 28
Cy4
Contributor
in reply to: Martin__Schmid

I am not disputing any of those steps.  I have noticed that the only way to have insulation on a duct system shown is to have the option pre-toggled before drawing any ductwork.  However, if you want the insulation off later, you can go into the display properties for that system(s) and turn off insulation.  Once you do this, if you continue to draw and any new ductwork, those labels will now be on a different layer and color.

Message 18 of 28
Martin__Schmid
in reply to: Cy4

To turn the insulation off later (to remove it), simply select the duct segments/fittings, and in the properties palette, under Advanced, set the insulation to 0.

 

As far as why that changes your labels, I am not able to reproduce, so can you provide either more explicit steps (or perhaps grab Jing (http://www.jingproject.com/) record a capture of the screen, and post a link to the video, and post your version of the file.



Martin Schmid
Product Line Manager
Mechanical Detailing and Electrical Design
Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
Autodesk, Inc.

Message 19 of 28
Cy4
Contributor
in reply to: Cy4

Attached is your example.  I drew new ductwork w/ insulation, exhaust system, in the shape of an 'M.'  Copied this to the right and applied an override to the duct system definition, exhaust, and turned off insulation and insulation - hidden.  Then, continued drawing ductwork and got the label you see (attached).

Message 20 of 28
Martin__Schmid
in reply to: Cy4

In the file you posted, in the Exhaust system definition, on the Design Rules tab, there is no longer an Override for Minor 1, this is why the Layer for the label is defaulting to the layer per the 'LABEL' key.  Can you identify exactly what step in your process this was removed?



Martin Schmid
Product Line Manager
Mechanical Detailing and Electrical Design
Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
Autodesk, Inc.

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