AutoCAD MEP General Discussion

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Active Contributor
erikf
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎06-03-2008
Message 1 of 28 (776 Views)

Setup for separating system object layer from system text layer

776 Views, 27 Replies
03-17-2010 09:48 AM
I would like to draw a duct/pipe system with the object on one layer and the text for that object on another layer for each separate system. Is this possible?

For example:
Return Duct: M-HVAC-DUCR
Text for Return: M-HVAC-DUCR-TEXT

Supply Duct: M-HVAC-DUCS
Text for Supply: M-HVAC-DUCS-TEXT

It appears you can only use one label curve style for all the system definitions. Is it possible to have label curve style for each system def or have a layer key for the object and a layer key for the size/text in the "Design Rules" area of the Style Manager for that system?
Active Contributor
therain247
Posts: 42
Registered: ‎11-16-2006
Message 2 of 28 (776 Views)

Re: Setup for separating system object layer from system text layer

03-18-2010 11:23 AM in reply to: erikf
I am going to take a stab at this one.

If some one knows how to manipulate the label curves style or the way labels create layers for insertion please speak up it would solve a problem i am having.

this is going to sound backwards, however this is how i worked around this particular problem. first go to the keystyles manager and create the layer styles you want to use. then in the duct systems definitions select your duct style then go to the design rules tab on the right it says Layer key: specify the text layer for the particular style you created M-HVAC-DUCR-TEXT. go to display properties tab and use the properties override to force the layer for the contour of the duct M-HVAC-DUCR.

go to the label curve style you are using, select the lable style annotation tab. under text options select use layer key from system definition.
remember you will have to do this to a template file save an insertable block drawing or redo it every time.
i hope this helps.
Employee
martin.schmid
Posts: 1,297
Registered: ‎11-16-2005
Message 3 of 28 (776 Views)

Re: Setup for separating system object layer from system text layer

03-18-2010 07:27 PM in reply to: erikf
Here's one way to do this:

Starting with drawing based on "Aecb Model (US Imperial Ctb).dwt"
Style Manager
Hvac Objects --> Duct System Defs
On Design Rules tab, add Minor 2 layer key overrides for the following systems as follows:
Supply: Supp
Return: Retn
Exhaust: Exhs

Under Multipurpose objects, Layer key styles,MEP Object - AIA 256 Color
For the LABEL layer key, check the box for Minor 2

Under Documentation objects, Label curve styles, select Standard-Duct
On the Label Style Annotation tab, check the box "User layer override from system definition"
Click OK

enter command DuctPreferences
On Ducts tab, make srue Apply Labels/Flow arrows is checked, and is set to 'Standard - Duct'
Click OK
Enter command DuctAdd

Route some Supply, Return, and Exhaust duct.. layers for ducts and labels should be as follows:
Supply : M-Duct-Std-Supp / G-Anno-Std-Supp
Return : M-Duct-Std-Retn / G-Anno-Std-Retn
Exhaust: M-Duct-Std-Exhs / G-Anno-Std-Exhs

You could tweak to get the convention you specified above, but to meet a requirement where you want labels on layers indepentent, but parallelling, the duct layers, the above should work.

I.e., in your case, set the Label layer key to M-HVAC-Std-Text, and tweak each of the duct system layer keys as you set forth. Then, follow the same override logic as above, but instead, you'd be overriding Minor 1. Though, you may want to consider the LABEL layer key and your overrides in a bit more detail... i.e., Conduit, Cable Tray, Pipe, Wire, Plumbing Line, and Schematic Line all use the same LABEL layer key, so you may adopt more overrides than outlined above.


Martin Schmid, P.E.
Product Manager - Revit MEP
Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
Autodesk, Inc.

Active Contributor
therain247
Posts: 42
Registered: ‎11-16-2006
Message 4 of 28 (776 Views)

Re: Setup for separating system object layer from system text layer

03-19-2010 07:54 AM in reply to: erikf
you'll be better off going with martins solution. i sat down this morning and tried to duplicate yesterdays results and have been unsuccessful. i know it can be done i did it before, i was able to do what you are asking for in 2004. to day however i am at a loss.
Active Contributor
erikf
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎06-03-2008
Message 5 of 28 (776 Views)

Re: Setup for separating system object layer from system text layer

03-19-2010 08:04 AM in reply to: erikf
Thanks for the feedback but these will not work for my situation. It would be so nice just to specify a layer key for the object and a layer key for the annotation or label for said object (or at least specify the layer key of the label style). I'm surprised this issue hasn't been resolved by MEP 2010. I would like to add this to the MEP wish list. It should be a simple setting and shouldn't have to "trick" the program to thinking or doing what I want it to do.
Employee
martin.schmid
Posts: 1,297
Registered: ‎11-16-2005
Message 6 of 28 (776 Views)

Re: Setup for separating system object layer from system text layer

03-19-2010 09:13 AM in reply to: erikf
I've attached an example (2010) that does the layering per what you asked in your original post. I even extended to make the labels have different layer colors, as some users have stated that need as well. I won't disagree that it *could* be easier to setup, however, I believe it does meet the stated need with the current design/implementation. In considering the priority of any change, we need to consider once it is setup and configured, does it really matter to the majority of users how it got to that point.... and weigh that against other requirements for things that the software does not yet do at all.

Let me know if/how this doesn't work for your situation... I'd be happy to collect any requirements/wishes.

Cheers-
MS


Martin Schmid, P.E.
Product Manager - Revit MEP
Architecture, Engineering, and Construction
Autodesk, Inc.

Distinguished Contributor
RibbonHater
Posts: 113
Registered: ‎01-13-2009
Message 7 of 28 (776 Views)

Re: Setup for separating system object layer from system text layer

03-19-2010 09:48 AM in reply to: erikf
Thx Martin,
I have been trying to do this since 06. I managed to get it to work when exported to ACAD however; I gave up on it. This really helps when isolating layers and making changes.

Regrads,

Rob W
Active Contributor
erikf
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎06-03-2008
Message 8 of 28 (776 Views)

Re: Setup for separating system object layer from system text layer

04-01-2010 01:28 PM in reply to: erikf
Martin,

Thanks for the drawing example and works ok with just drawing one trade. But as you mentioned, the override technology doesn't work for multiple trade drafting since everything uses the same LABEL layer key. Please add to wish list to add a layer key or separate label curve style to an indvidual system definition. This would make things so much easier to implement AutoCAD MEP.
Active Contributor
therain247
Posts: 42
Registered: ‎11-16-2006
Message 9 of 28 (776 Views)

Re: Setup for separating system object layer from system text layer

05-24-2010 12:20 PM in reply to: erikf
The layer key style has a key style named label. The label key style is the one used for labels.
Label has override check boxes to the far right.

Check the boxes for discipline designator, major, and minor.
Change the layer name under the layer settings column from -labl to -Text.
Go to the system definition under the style manager and change the discipline designator, major, and minor to what you want it to be.
Example: Discipline designator M, Major Duct, Minor Lpd. You are limited to the amount of text in your value. The limit is four. This will render a layer for the label named M-Duct-Lpd-Text.
Last but not least go to the label curve style you intend to use and change the text options to use layer override from system definition.
Contributor Cy4
Contributor
Cy4
Posts: 25
Registered: ‎11-13-2006
Message 10 of 28 (776 Views)

Re: Setup for separating system object layer from system text layer

05-26-2010 12:59 PM in reply to: erikf
Martin,

Can you explain your steps creating the DuctLabelExample.dwg? The file works great for Supply, Return, and Exhaust systems. Creating a new system beyond these three is difficult to duplicate. I am missing something.

Thank you, in advance.

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