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Opinions of Model Space vs. Paper Space.

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Message 1 of 24
karenhamilton
6418 Views, 23 Replies

Opinions of Model Space vs. Paper Space.

I've been using AutoCAD since 97 and am currently running AutoCAD LT 2010.  I've never used Paper Space because it just seemed easier to manage things with Layer Manager.  At this point, I'm figuring out how to do it (slowly but surely).  My question is this: do most of you use it and what are the advantages?  I haven't figured out yet why it is better than what I've been doing.  Thanks for any  responses.  And if someone knows of a great tute, please let me know.  Took me a long time to find out about double-clicking a viewport perimeter or just double clicking within the space of it.  Maybe I'm getting too old.  LOL.

 

--Karen

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23 REPLIES 23
Message 2 of 24

Modelspace for Drawing

Paperspace for Printing

Why do it any other way?

Message 3 of 24
Irish2
in reply to: Charles_Shade

Why do it that way Charles? I too have never felt the need to use paper space, instead using layers for what I needed. Ditto for architect offices I've worked for. So, besides just a quick little statement it would be nice to hear opinions and examples!

Message 4 of 24
Charles_Shade
in reply to: Irish2

Create your WYSIWYG views of paper in a Layout.

Change Scales and Views of a Modelspace drawing.

Put multiple areas of Modelspace in different Viewports at different scales in the same Paperspace layout.

Create the Layout once and then just right click the tab and print.

Why create a Window view of the Modelspace entities every time you want to plot something?

Why need a Title Block set to every page you wish to print? Maybe an XREF to do so? Or it is already there in Layout.

Fields and Viewports for common info. Use the Drawing Properties dialog to get this information into your drawing one time. Set it and Forget it to borrow a tag line.

 

BTW - Layers and Paperspace are two different animals. Layers for different entities and Paperspace to show those entities. Why create (copy) two, three, or four floor plans? Put all your information in one place in Modelspace and then turn off or on the layers you need in Paperspace. Have that Floor Plan, Electric Plan, Structural Plan, Braced Wall plan whatever done for you without Layer filters or hunting and picking what to turn on and off each time.

 

Same plan area, four scales, different Layers shown, priceless...

Message 5 of 24
pendean
in reply to: karenhamilton

If you don't need to.....

  1. show different scales of your drawing on a single sheet
  2. show multiple views of your drawing with different layers on/off/frozen and/or different colors for layers on a single sheet.
  3. have different multiple titleblocks for different portions of your drawings (for example, the full sized sheet for the overall, plus smaller sheets for changes or addenda, and different titleblocks for presentations or contractor or state/local authority submittals etc.).
  4. change titleblocks because you never have to plot a site plan, then a closer building plan, then a closer detail plan because you never ever need to put or have all the information in a single DWG file.

... then you don't really have a use for paperspace.

 

Don't force your opinions or limitations on others, there is no right way or wrong way, both methods are there because we don't all work the same way. Just make sure FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN is the only reason you are not exploring the other option if you truly need it.

"... I've only ever done it this way since..." is the no reason to only do one thing one way anywhere or with anything too.

 

Happy cadding.

 

 

 

Message 6 of 24
karenhamilton
in reply to: pendean

Your answer was exactly what I was looking for.  Since I do primarily residential design, the majority of my printing is at 1/4" = 1'-0'.   Every page in a set of blueprints is specifically for a single function, i.e. electrical, framing, foundation.  Now I have a much clearer understanding of why there might be a need for paper space.  Thanks so much.

 

Message 7 of 24

Let us know if you need a primer on Freezing Layers in Viewports.

How to use Fields and Annotation for Text and MLeaders.

Dynamic Blocks for those plans etc...

Message 8 of 24

...takes me back to when I really was Modman. We only used modelspace in modulars, and thought paperspace was like a Turkish prison. But for different sheet sizes we had to change the plotting parameters. For arranging views of differing scales on one sheet, something had to be turned into a block (and updates meant redefining that block). To show two views of differing layer setups required 2 copies of the model.

 

Once I started playing around with how to show (and plot) the 3 standard Orthographic views plus one Isometric view of a model at the same time, I went through that same laborious learning process, including going back and forth through the Help files. But once I discovered what paperspace can do (plus the fact it's like having a best friend right next door), I jumped in with both feet! OP, imagine setting up one layout tab (paperspace) for the overall floor plan (using frozen layers), setting up the plot parameters on it, and then copying it (creating more tabs) for your RCP, Mechanical etc. MEP drawings often use the architectural as a grayed-out background. Since 2008 AutoCAD has allowed you to change colors and even linetypes on a per-layer, per-viewport basis, without adversely affecting the model's original colors/linetypes. You can even create objects, dimensions, text etc that is "annotative" -- that is, you create it once and then use it on the fly in differently scaled viewports, and it'll automatically adjust to the size you wish it to look in paperspace.

 

If you do start down this path, a couple of friendly tips -- set a viewport's scale and then lock it; know the difference between setting layer properties globally and setting them on a per-viewport basis; and if you get into annotative objects, learn about setting CANNOSCALE in modelspace (it'll save you tons of headaches figuring out how to get your linetype scales all correct everywhere). Welcome to The Dark side, and good luck! 🙂

If by some odd chance my nattering was useful -- that's great, glad to help. But if it actually solved your issue, then please mark my solution as accepted 🙂
Message 9 of 24
kevinschot
in reply to: Charles_Shade

I agree. Why else would Autodesk include a paper space in the program... Which is why I have an issue with the following:

 

There are a few people in my office that like to create an entirely seperate file just for layout tabs. Meaning, for every project there is at least one file for the design in model space and one drawing for the layout space with the model space drawing referenced in.

This concept is crazy to me. And i can't find any information to support their position. All of the blogs and support that I find say nothing about doing this. I understand that some clients require this, which is fine. But why do it otherwise?

 

They claim that it reduces the drawing size, so that CAD doesn't run as slow. I told them that sounds like a hardware issue, not a CAD issue.

Do you know of any advantage to doing this? I can think of a thousand reasons of why not to do this...

 

 

Message 10 of 24
pendean
in reply to: kevinschot

Paperspace tabs does not slow down AutoCAD, but lots of Xrefs can on low end hardware: that's the correct information. File size is irrelevant too. No need to find 'documentatiom', a quick field test proves it.

 

With the absence of a Sheet Set Manager in LT until LT2012, it may be their way of managing plot files without affecting whomeever is working in a DWG at the tile. Working with them to figure it out is the better approach. If they have LT2012, jump into SSM quickly, if not, have them get into PUBLISH and saved Sheets as a minimum for managing plots and output.

Message 11 of 24
Charles_Shade
in reply to: kevinschot

I always thought this was done to bring boiler plate info to the drawing file such as Client and Project name.

Message 12 of 24
kevinschot
in reply to: karenhamilton

We use full versions of CAD. You are correct. One claim is that they are able to modify the model space while another is working in the paper space.
It seems to me the benifits of having one drawing outweigh the two dwg version. For example no need to switch between drawings to change layouts. Or, no need to have a desperate drawing creating need for additional referencing. And not need to open separate dwg for printing.

Also, more dwgs equals more space taken up on hd.

They refuse to use sheet sets. What do you mean by have them get to PUBLISH?










Message 13 of 24
kevinschot
in reply to: karenhamilton

Do you mean bring boiler plate info into the title block?
If not where do you mean?
Message 14 of 24
pendean
in reply to: kevinschot

For LT users without SSM options (LT2011 and lower), PUBLISH command lets you save sheetsets and recall for publishing purposes: just right-lick inside the sheet list window in the PUBLISH command's pop-up and explore creating or retrieving DSD sheet lists (just like full AutoCAD).

 

Not to be confused with DST files from SSM of course.

 

And yes, 2-DWG files to keep track of instead of one is not good, but their method of operation may be worth examining first to see if it can be better streamlined with other methods.

Message 15 of 24
Bob_Zurunkle
in reply to: pendean

I know I have one dwg for nothing but PDF backgrounds, and another one to XREF it into and draw my own stuff on top of. The first drawing is an overlay, so it won't carry over when the second one is XREFd into the "master dwg". Since each pair of drawings set up this way represent a single level and area of a hospital for example, the master dwg contains all of the areas and levels as XREFs, but without any of the PDF underlays. That keeps the XREF list a lot shorter (and the master file a lot faster!). This also allows "worksharing", where more than one individual can work on different portions of what is XREF'd into the master...

If by some odd chance my nattering was useful -- that's great, glad to help. But if it actually solved your issue, then please mark my solution as accepted 🙂
Message 16 of 24
kevinschot
in reply to: karenhamilton

a separate file for PDF is logical. We do the same for aerial images sometimes. Essentially create an aerial image motif or master.

Users can't see behind image/PDF unless transparency is applied. Which still make things difficult to read. I would support a support a stand alone file for that purpose.

A seperate file for sheet layouts on the other hand... Why would CAD offer sheet layout tabs in the same file as model tab if the intent was not to use both in the same drawing?


Message 17 of 24
Bob_Zurunkle
in reply to: kevinschot

Not to be picky but I think the semantics are off. Depending on who one works for or what their drafting/output needs are, AutoCAD provides this flexibility because it is meant to be many things to many people. Some might do 100% modeling, annotating, dimensioning and plotting in modelspace, and see no value in using paperspace. Some might do 100% modeling, dimensioning and annotating in modelspace, and either use paperspace for output, or not output at all -- such as reusing the modelspace content as XREFs in multiple drawings (standardized content). Some might take this one step further by creating a number of blocks in one drawing, solely for the purpose of being inserted into other drawings as blocks (a container drawing).

 

Paperspace is generally used for gathering up selected scaled views of a model that itself resides in modelspace, and presenting them in an arrangemement within a border and titleblock for output. They are normally (and easily) printed out at 1:1, just as modelspace is 1:1. Almost everyone who uses paperspace does most of their annotating in it, and a lot even do dimensioning in paperspace, while a lot do it in modelspace. To print a model from modelspace in several different scales requires rescaling a border and title in modelspace for each instance, plus changing the plot setup for each instance. To print different scales on the same sheet requires a model being turned into a block and then rescaled so it fits within the sheet. A lot of extra tasks are eliminated with the use of paperspace for this purpose instead.

 

I think you may be referring to a master model with many sheets on tabs. Or perhaps each sheet a different drawing setup. This is the same principle used in Revit, just approached from a more traditional CAD drafting viewpoint. The XREF might be considered the Central Model, which itself can only be worked on by one individual at a time. In Revit, the Central Model can be set up so several individuals can work on different parts of it at the same time, and warns you if you're trying to work on someone else's part. AutoCAD doesn't have that capability. But that model can be XREFd into several different separate sheets as a base model, so for example several MEP drafters can use it as an underlay for their work on several different areas at one time. And as long as the XREFs are set up as overlays, the MEP work (I am thinking especially of ductwork) can be XREFd back into the Central Model (again as an overlay), without creating two Captain Kirks, as it were. The Guy in Charge of the Architect's Model gets to keep making those minutiae of changes by the minute, while the duct guy gets to keep working on his sheets (and obtaining up-to-date updates of the Central Model), and every time the duct guy saves his changes, the Guy in Charge gets his or her latest duct "image" by reloading the duct guy's work. Class Dismissed!

If by some odd chance my nattering was useful -- that's great, glad to help. But if it actually solved your issue, then please mark my solution as accepted 🙂
Message 18 of 24
lovsofbal
in reply to: karenhamilton

Why does my drawing turn 90 degrees when i go from model space to paper space?

Message 19 of 24
Bob_Zurunkle
in reply to: lovsofbal

Post the problem drawing?

If by some odd chance my nattering was useful -- that's great, glad to help. But if it actually solved your issue, then please mark my solution as accepted 🙂
Message 20 of 24
pendean
in reply to: lovsofbal

The viewport is rotated differently from modelspace: turn on UCSICON and compare in both tabs.

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