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    AutoCAD Electrical

    Reply
    *Expert Elite*
    Posts: 2,516
    Registered: ‎10-18-2003

    Re: multi level terminals

    03-10-2008 03:28 PM in reply to: driesterer
    Hi Nathan,

    Let me see if this will help. Think of the terminal symbols in the
    schematic as representing the screws or compression clamps. Each terminal
    symbol is one screw or compression clamp. So with my design method I don't
    bother with exactly what each screw or compression clamp will be until I get
    to the panel layout. It's okay if I know ahead of time, but I just wait
    until panel layout to actually assign part numbers. I could assign as I go,
    but if I assign BOM data to each terminal symbol in the schematic I may get
    4 blocks in my BOM later when I really only need one that has 4 connections.
    So I wait until I am in the Terminal Strip Editor to assign part numbers.
    It is easier to create the associations to combine 4 screws or compressions
    clamps into one block in TSE than doing it at schematic level. At schematic
    level the terminals may be spread across many pages. In TSE I see all of
    them at once. I can create the associations easily, assign the BOM data and
    let the TSE go back and update the schematic symbols with the association
    information and BOM data automatically. I did not use the TSE in its
    earlier forms but the new version in AcadE 2008 really impressed me. I am
    now a big fan of it.

    Note: I do not use the internal jumper tool to connect the terminals
    together to represent a bus. That is also a newer feature and I devised my
    own way back in 1997 when I started using this program. I like to see
    something visual on my drawings. So I created a special layer called
    JUMPERBAR or just JUMPER. I insert a line between all of the terminal
    symbols that will make up a bus and I assign this line to the JUMPER or
    JUMPERBAR layer. AcadE automatically knows to ignore a layer with the word
    JUMPER in its name from the wire list, so no need to worry about this
    appearing on your wire list. So visually I see that there is a physical
    connection from screw to screw or compression clamp to compression clamp.
    The JUMPERBAR or JUMPER layer is still seen as a current carrying device by
    AcadE so wire number/potential is passed through.

    If you follow the instructions I posted earlier in this thread and do all of
    the associations using Terminal Strip Editor, you can toggle wires from one
    side to the other of a terminal and you can effectively move them from one
    block to another by creating the association with the other block and
    deleting the blank spare that is left behind. Since your blocks have only
    one level but 4 connections, you will still need to treat them as having a
    Level 1 and Level 2. I would consider the inner two connections as Level 1
    and the outer two as Level 2. I modified the footprints of the blocks I use
    most with a color code so I can see by the color of the wire numbers exactly
    which Level they connection to. See the attached photo from my training
    class project where we work with multi-level blocks. This screen shot shows
    both triple-deck and double-deck blocks. The numbers represent the screw
    lugs in this case and they are the same color as the wire number which
    connects to them. This is done by forcing the colors of the attributes to
    cyan, green, yellow, etc. in the footprint itself. TSE will automatically
    insert the wire numbers according to how you positioned them in the first
    screen of TSE, when you created the associations.



    wrote in message news:5871598@discussion.autodesk.com...
    Doug,
    It looks like you know your stuff on how to edit terminal blocks. so here is
    another question.
    First off, I am still learning how to properly draw electrical schematics
    and coming up with a "standard" at the same time.
    What I am trying to do is show one circuit terminal blocks with four wire
    connection points. This is a one level block, I think; correct me if I'm
    wrong. Basically we are trying to create a "bus".
    But all I can get to work is a separate wire into one termina
    l block. An example, I have four ground wires to connect to terminal block,
    on the schematic drawing I have a wire going to its own terminal block
    symbol. I know want to associate all four blocks into one terminal block
    with all four wires connecting to it.
    Does that make sense?
    What I can tell is that a "two" level block creates a two circuit terminal
    block and I need a four point connection one circuit terminal block.
    HELP!
    Nathan
    Regards,

    Doug McAlexander
    Electrical CAD Industry Specialist
    Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor
    AutoCAD Electrical, VIA/WD, Toolbox/WD, ecscad, promis-e, RSWire

    Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
    E-mail: ECADConsultant@gmail.com
    Phone: (770) 841-8009
    Please use plain text.
    Active Contributor
    Posts: 28
    Registered: ‎03-10-2008

    Re: multi level terminals

    03-10-2008 03:45 PM in reply to: driesterer
    Thanks Doug! I think I'm picking up what your putting down. Ultimately, it sounds like I cant force AutoCAD to use a one level four position block. But I can use a two level block, can I force two different wire "networks" to either side of the terminal block?
    The attached picture is an example of what im trying to represent on the schematics. the four ground terminal blocks and ann grounded and "jumpered" via the din rail. The blocks labeled "1" are jumpered using a jumper bar so they are effectively the same network.
    Is there any way I could get some of your drawings that show a schematic layout and the terminal block footprint?That way I could see how you getting AutoCAD to combine the blocks into multiple levels with different networks.
    Thank you for your help!
    Please use plain text.
    *Expert Elite*
    Posts: 2,516
    Registered: ‎10-18-2003

    Re: multi level terminals

    03-10-2008 07:32 PM in reply to: driesterer
    What you need to do is assign a different number or letter to each
    compression clamp (i.e. 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D or 1, 2, 3, 4) and use the color
    coded system to show the wire numbers that attach to each, like in the
    example I posted previously. It doesn't matter that your block has 4
    connections on one level. The point of the levels in AcadE is that
    feed-through blocks elevate each level so they can pass the signal from one
    side to the other and both sides would be 1A or 1B, etc. Your block must be
    treated as a 4 level block internally jumpered and with no feed-through,
    meaning one wire for 1A, one wire for 1B, etc.

    The important thing is to denote each terminal symbol in your schematic with
    a unique identification like 1A, 1B, etc. When you get to TSE click the
    Number column to sort by terminal designator. Then use the Toggle
    Destination function to move wires left or right to split them up to show
    two wire numbers per side the top two on the right-hand side and the bottom
    two on the left-hand side. All you are really doing with this feature is
    letting AcadE know on which side of the terminal footprint you want the wire
    number info to appear.

    Attached is a sample drawing I created with a Wago 4-point front-wiring
    ground block. The footprint is the one on the Panel\Wago library folder. I
    modified it to include the color-coding system I use to differentiate which
    wire connects to which clamp. I will send two more e-mails with
    attachments. The first will be the modified block. The second will be a
    screenshot with an explanation of how I configured things in the TSE.

    wrote in message news:5871884@discussion.autodesk.com...
    Thanks Doug! I think I'm picking up what your putting down. Ultimately, it
    sounds like I cant force AutoCAD to use a one level four position block. But
    I can use a two level block, can I force two different wire "networks" to
    either side of the terminal block?
    The attached picture is an example of what im trying to represent on the
    schematics. the four ground terminal blocks and ann grounded and "jumpered"
    via the din rail. The blocks labeled "1" are jumpered using a jumper bar so
    they
    are effectively the same network.
    Is there any way I could get some of your drawings that show a schematic
    layout and the terminal block footprint?That way I could see how you getting
    AutoCAD to combine the blocks into multiple levels with different networks.
    Thank you for your help!
    Regards,

    Doug McAlexander
    Electrical CAD Industry Specialist
    Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor
    AutoCAD Electrical, VIA/WD, Toolbox/WD, ecscad, promis-e, RSWire

    Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
    E-mail: ECADConsultant@gmail.com
    Phone: (770) 841-8009
    Please use plain text.
    *Expert Elite*
    Posts: 2,516
    Registered: ‎10-18-2003

    Re: multi level terminals

    03-10-2008 07:39 PM in reply to: driesterer
    Attached is the modified Wago ground block I used in the example. You can
    place this in your C:\Program Files\Autodesk\Acade
    2008\Libs\panel\WAGO\TRMS-TERMINAL BLOCKS folder. Save the original block
    first as a backup.


    wrote in message news:5871993@discussion.autodesk.com...
    What you need to do is assign a different number or letter to each
    compression clamp (i.e. 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D or 1, 2, 3, 4) and use the color
    coded system to show the wire numbers that attach to each, like in the
    example I posted previously. It doesn't matter that your block has 4
    connections on one level. The point of the levels in AcadE is that
    feed-through blocks elevate each level so they can pass the signal from one
    side to the other and both sides would be 1A or 1B, etc.
    Your block must be
    treated as a 4 level block internally jumpered and with no feed-through,
    meaning one wire for 1A, one wire for 1B, etc.

    The important thing is to denote each terminal symbol in your schematic with
    a unique identification like 1A, 1B, etc. When you get to TSE click the
    Number column to sort by terminal designator. Then use the Toggle
    Destination function to move wires left or right to split them up to show
    two wire numbers per side the top two on the
    right-hand side and the bottom
    two on the left-hand side. All you are really doing with this feature is
    letting AcadE know on which side of the terminal footprint you want the wire
    number info to appear.

    Attached is a sample drawing I created with a Wago 4-point front-wiring
    ground block. The footprint is the one on the Panel\Wago library folder. I
    modified it to include the color-coding system I use to differentiate which
    wire connects to which clamp. I will
    send two more e-mails with
    attachments. The first will be the modified block. The second will be a
    screenshot with an explanation of how I configured things in the TSE.

    wrote in message news:5871884@discussion.autodesk.com...
    Thanks Doug! I think I'm picking up what your putting down. Ultimately, it
    sounds like I cant force AutoCAD to use a one level four position block. But
    I can use a two level block, can I force two different wire "networks" to
    eith
    er side of the terminal block?
    The attached picture is an example of what im trying to represent on the
    schematics. the four ground terminal blocks and ann grounded and "jumpered"
    via the din rail. The blocks labeled "1" are jumpered using a jumper bar so
    they
    are effectively the same network.
    Is there any way I could get some of your drawings that show a schematic
    layout and the terminal block footprint?That way I could see how you getting
    AutoCAD to combine the blocks int
    o multiple levels with different networks.
    Thank you for your help!
    Regards,

    Doug McAlexander
    Electrical CAD Industry Specialist
    Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor
    AutoCAD Electrical, VIA/WD, Toolbox/WD, ecscad, promis-e, RSWire

    Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
    E-mail: ECADConsultant@gmail.com
    Phone: (770) 841-8009
    Please use plain text.
    *Expert Elite*
    Posts: 2,516
    Registered: ‎10-18-2003

    Re: multi level terminals

    03-10-2008 07:41 PM in reply to: driesterer
    Attached is a screen shot that explains the setup of the 4-point "4-level"
    block in TSE.


    wrote in message news:5871995@discussion.autodesk.com...
    Attached is the modified Wago ground block I used in the example. You can
    place this in your C:\Program Files\Autodesk\Acade
    2008\Libs\panel\WAGO\TRMS-TERMINAL BLOCKS folder. Save the original block
    first as a backup.


    wrote in message news:5871993@discussion.autodesk.com...
    What you need to do is assign a different number or letter to each
    compression clamp (i.e. 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D or 1, 2, 3, 4) and use the color
    coded system to show the wire numbers that attach
    to each, like in the
    example I posted previously. It doesn't matter that your block has 4
    connections on one level. The point of the levels in AcadE is that
    feed-through blocks elevate each level so they can pass the signal from one
    side to the other and both sides would be 1A or 1B, etc.
    Your block must be
    treated as a 4 level block internally jumpered and with no feed-through,
    meaning one wire for 1A, one wire for 1B, etc.

    The important thing is to denote each terminal symbol in your schema
    tic with
    a unique identification like 1A, 1B, etc. When you get to TSE click the
    Number column to sort by terminal designator. Then use the Toggle
    Destination function to move wires left or right to split them up to show
    two wire numbers per side the top two on the
    right-hand side and the bottom
    two on the left-hand side. All you are really doing with this feature is
    letting AcadE know on which side of the terminal footprint you want the wire
    number info to appear.

    Attached is a sampl
    e drawing I created with a Wago 4-point front-wiring
    ground block. The footprint is the one on the Panel\Wago library folder. I
    modified it to include the color-coding system I use to differentiate which
    wire connects to which clamp. I will
    send two more e-mails with
    attachments. The first will be the modified block. The second will be a
    screenshot with an explanation of how I configured things in the TSE.

    wrote in message news:5871884@discussion.autodesk.com...
    Thanks Do
    ug! I think I'm picking up what your putting down. Ultimately, it
    sounds like I cant force AutoCAD to use a one level four position block. But
    I can use a two level block, can I force two different wire "networks" to
    eith
    er side of the terminal block?
    The attached picture is an example of what im trying to represent on the
    schematics. the four ground terminal blocks and ann grounded and "jumpered"
    via the din rail. The blocks labeled "1" are jumpered using a jumper bar so
    they
    are effectively
    the same network.
    Is there any way I could get some of your drawings that show a schematic
    layout and the terminal block footprint?That way I could see how you getting
    AutoCAD to combine the blocks int
    o multiple levels with different networks.
    Thank you for your help!
    Regards,

    Doug McAlexander
    Electrical CAD Industry Specialist
    Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor
    AutoCAD Electrical, VIA/WD, Toolbox/WD, ecscad, promis-e, RSWire

    Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
    E-mail: ECADConsultant@gmail.com
    Phone: (770) 841-8009
    Please use plain text.
    *Expert Elite*
    Posts: 2,516
    Registered: ‎10-18-2003

    Re: multi level terminals

    03-10-2008 07:46 PM in reply to: driesterer
    Good grief I attached the wring drawing. I'm trying to do too many things
    at once. Here is the one I intended.

    wrote in message news:5871993@discussion.autodesk.com...
    What you need to do is assign a different number or letter to each
    compression clamp (i.e. 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D or 1, 2, 3, 4) and use the color
    coded system to show the wire numbers that attach to each, like in the
    example I posted previously. It doesn't matter that your block has 4
    connections on one level. The point of the levels in AcadE is that
    feed-through blocks elevate each level so they can pass the signal from one
    side to the other and both sides would be 1A or 1B, etc.
    Your block must be
    treated as a 4 level block internally jumpered and with no feed-through,
    meaning one wire for 1A, one wire for 1B, etc.

    The important thing is to denote each terminal symbol in your schematic with
    a unique identification like 1A, 1B, etc. When you get to TSE click the
    Number column to sort by terminal designator. Then use the Toggle
    Destination function to move wires left or right to split them up to show
    two wire numbers per side the top two on the
    right-hand side and the bottom
    two on the left-hand side. All you are really doing with this feature is
    letting AcadE know on which side of the terminal footprint you want the wire
    number info to appear.

    Attached is a sample drawing I created with a Wago 4-point front-wiring
    ground block. The footprint is the one on the Panel\Wago library folder. I
    modified it to include the color-coding system I use to differentiate which
    wire connects to which clamp. I will
    send two more e-mails with
    attachments. The first will be the modified block. The second will be a
    screenshot with an explanation of how I configured things in the TSE.

    wrote in message news:5871884@discussion.autodesk.com...
    Thanks Doug! I think I'm picking up what your putting down. Ultimately, it
    sounds like I cant force AutoCAD to use a one level four position block. But
    I can use a two level block, can I force two different wire "networks" to
    eith
    er side of the terminal block?
    The attached picture is an example of what im trying to represent on the
    schematics. the four ground terminal blocks and ann grounded and "jumpered"
    via the din rail. The blocks labeled "1" are jumpered using a jumper bar so
    they
    are effectively the same network.
    Is there any way I could get some of your drawings that show a schematic
    layout and the terminal block footprint?That way I could see how you getting
    AutoCAD to combine the blocks int
    o multiple levels with different networks.
    Thank you for your help!
    Regards,

    Doug McAlexander
    Electrical CAD Industry Specialist
    Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor
    AutoCAD Electrical, VIA/WD, Toolbox/WD, ecscad, promis-e, RSWire

    Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
    E-mail: ECADConsultant@gmail.com
    Phone: (770) 841-8009
    Please use plain text.
    Active Contributor
    Posts: 28
    Registered: ‎03-10-2008

    Re: multi level terminals

    03-11-2008 09:03 AM in reply to: driesterer
    Thanks Doug. Your a HUGE help!
    Please use plain text.
    Active Contributor
    Posts: 28
    Registered: ‎03-10-2008

    Re: multi level terminals

    03-12-2008 01:23 PM in reply to: driesterer
    Doug,
    How do I get a copy of the ACADE book you wrote?
    Please use plain text.
    *Expert Elite*
    Posts: 2,516
    Registered: ‎10-18-2003

    Re: multi level terminals

    03-12-2008 08:30 PM in reply to: driesterer
    It isn't quite finished yet. Send me an e-mail direct and I will get you on
    the list to be notified. I was to finish it last year but got so busy
    traveling and teaching classes onsite that I got behind. But I am working
    on the final chapters now.

    ECADConsultant@aol.com

    wrote in message news:5874079@discussion.autodesk.com...
    Doug,
    How do I get a copy of the ACADE book you wrote?
    Regards,

    Doug McAlexander
    Electrical CAD Industry Specialist
    Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor
    AutoCAD Electrical, VIA/WD, Toolbox/WD, ecscad, promis-e, RSWire

    Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
    E-mail: ECADConsultant@gmail.com
    Phone: (770) 841-8009
    Please use plain text.
    Contributor
    Posts: 11
    Registered: ‎06-14-2006

    Re: multi level terminals

    03-19-2008 07:11 AM in reply to: driesterer
    Hi Doug,
    Quick question on terminals. When I select and insert a terminal, how do I get it to keep the same wire # on both sides of the term?
    Please use plain text.