internal wiring of custom symbol

[shades234]

I created a custom symbol in Electrical 2013.  It is a UPS Batttery that consists of 2 batteries and a control mdule.  the control module is the interface between the UPS Controller and the Batteries.  I created a custom sysmbol to show the three connections to UPS controller, and the 4 connections to the batteries.

when i go to my to/from wire report, i get ??? for the location of the module to battery pins and no terminal/component names.  but on the battery terminals, i get the pin names and the component name.

i've included a picture.  the pins circled in red are not listed, just ???/blank.  the pins in blue are named in the wire to/from list.

thoughts?

[s.wile]

Can you post a copy of the block?

[shades234]

Here's the block of the battery.  on the left are the 3 pins that would to to the UPS controller.  the pins in the middle are from the Battery module to the batteries.  and the pins on the right are the battery terminals.

since the batteries are only 12V, but the UPS is 24VDC, the battiers need to be wired in series.  That's what the module does, as well as provide battery information via a com wire to the UPS controller.

[Icemanau]

Could you run a wire report and post a screenshot of it so we can see what you are getting.

As you can see from my screenshot, I got all the data for the components within the block. The three LOC1's that show (??) are the three external wires which are not connected to anything on the other end.

Also double check that the internal wiring is actually connecting to your terminal points. If the wire is off by a small distance, you will get a report that has (??) for the internal connections.

Regards Brad

[shades234]

i have checked the wires, and they are conncted.  i did the stretch command.  no joy. i trimmed the wires/delted them.  started new wires (partially) and then used the stretch command to extend to the other pin.

i'm only showing the connections in the report here.  all other components are doing ok.  my location is labeled as RX-PNL.    as you can see i have (???) as one location and RX-PNL as the other.

i'm at a loss

[Anonymous]

Hi Shades,

From what I can see, it looks like the Batteries are seperate components from the Battery Housing.

If that is the case then you need to assign the location to both component types (the Batery and the Battery Housing).

You can rule this out by making a location box around the entire battery housing and assigning the RX-PNL Location to the location box. (See the Screenshot below, for the location of the location box) 

If Loc1 stays at ??? then something else is up with the components.

(like someone typed a default location in the symbol)

I hope this helps,

James Alger

SolidCAD

[shades234]

James

I tried the location box, and that did not work.  

also the battery housing and the batteries are in one .dwg "schematic component" block.  it is regular geometry in the .dwg file (see my second post for block).  the batteries are not nested blocks within the UPS_Battery block.

I don't have a default location set for the project (although I probably should because this is for a single panel so all components will be installed in the same location)

I also checked the block again, and the only attributes with default values in them are the Pins, because those are known values.  everuthing else is job dependant.

i am still at a loss.

[Anonymous]

Hi Shades,

I should have downloaded your part before stating it was two!... LOL

Oh well, now that I see the problem I would actually make the Batteries Child components (with all attributes hidden).

Then you can assign two separate locations or in this case the same location for both devices.

AutoCAD Electrical can't see a change in the component right now (component 1 and component2 are the same), so it blanks out one or the other depending on which you select first in the reports. 

Since it can't find the second component it reports back that you have no location assigned to it (Even though you have assigned a location in the Component... It hates cyclic dependences).

I hope this helps,

James Alger

SolidCAD

[shades234]

what is werid is that i have a different custom component (a 4-20 mA splitter module) where i have 24 +/- going into it, then from the 24- pin, going to the signal input - pin.  in the reports i have a wire from my 24VDC- tb going to the power input, then i have a wire showing from the power input to the signal input. see attached image.   the Blue and yellow highlighted are one signal splitter, the red circle shows the second.

so why would this work, and not for the battery?

i really don't want to make the batteries a child component because they aren't a "child" of the UPS battery. the battery part number includes the module and bateries.

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

Hi Shades,

You bring up a very good question.

The real difference is that your 24C-BB wire is a destination and likely has a real component on the other side of it with a location.

So your Jumper wire (between pin 8 and pin 2) is pulling in the data from the destination off of pin 8.

It is silly but adding the extra wire allows it to "see" the information on the component.

It can pull  the missing Location from the destination wire.

You could add an extra wire (tied to a dummy component with RX-PNL), or use a terminal on the wires to your batteries to mimic this. 

Which would force the Missing location to be populated. (see the Screenshot)

If showing a terminal is an issue then cheat and make a component that is a line with wire connections on each side that way you can pull out all of the info that you need.

Or make the batteries child components... They wouldn't have there own Catalog data, child components pull the catalog data from the parent, which would be the battery housing.

To help line it up I would draw an empty box where you want the component to go, that way when you place the battery it will line up with a snap point (I would use the top corner... ACADE will Complain its not in line but it won't make a difference)

I hope this helps,

James Alger

SolidCAD

[shades234]

Wow. thanks for the response.

yes, the 24C-BB came from a custom TB (we use Phoenix Contact TBs, and the way we use them in practice does not seem to work well with ohw the TB tool in ACE works).  I still find it odd that the wire between  pins 2 and 8 needs to pull data from "upstream" equipment, but I didn't write the code for ACE.

But I guess this is getting beyond complicated.  When I run the report, I export to Excel, and then modify it (cell lines, add columns for length of wire, etc) before bringing it in as an OLE piece.  It's just as easy to copy the info in those Columns.  I was hoping to avoid that w/o any additional hassle.

Ohwell.

Thanks for your help.

[s.wile]

You could place the parent and child as needed and run all internal wires. Then save this as a saved circuit. This will allow placing as a single block but it is then exploded and turned back into wires and symbols.

This will be easy to place, create a proper BOM, and have correct wiring.