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Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-14-2006
Message 1 of 27 (537 Views)

multi level terminals

537 Views, 26 Replies
03-06-2008 04:32 AM
Where is the best place to start with multi-level terms? How do I assign wire numbers to each level. I am still not sure what this program is calling "upper" and "Lower" or to "top" and "bottom". Where is the best place to do this?
*Expert Elite*
Posts: 2,806
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 2 of 27 (537 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-08-2008 05:53 PM in reply to: driesterer
Just insert terminal block symbols into the schematic like normal. Assign
the Tag Strip name and terminal number, such as TB1 terminal number 1, TB1
terminal number 2, etc. Do not assign MFG or CAT to the terminals during
schematic creation. Because of the power of the new Terminal Strip Editor,
just wait until you are creating the panel layout to assign part numbers.
You see, sometimes you may decide to use multi-level blocks after you start
the panel layout and realize that you are running short of horizontal DIN
rail space. You may not know this until you start laying out the panel.
Also, if you are an Integrator, you may not know what brand of terminals
your customer wants until later in the design process.

Be sure you assign wire numbers, either automatically per drawing or
project, or manually in case certain wire numbers must follow a predefined
convention.

When you are laying out your panel and it is time to insert the terminal
strip(s) bring up the Terminal Strip Editor. You will notice that the
Terminal Strip tab is the default view and you will see your terminals
listed as single-level blocks. The wires will appear at left and/or right.
Don't worry about their positions just yet. Place your mouse cursor over
the word Terminal and left-click to sort by terminal number. For some
reason they don't appear sorted by terminal number in the default view.
Next go to the Catalog Code Assignment tab and assign the manufacturer and
catalog number. If you have determined that you need to use multi-level
blocks, choose the part number for the particular brand of multi-level
blocks you want. You can drag your mouse cursor across all of the blocks or
use SHIFT or CTRL to select all blocks at once and assign the MFG and CAT
simultaneously to all (another argument for not assigning one at a time
while creating the schematic). Once you have the blocks selected right
click over any block and select Catalog>Assign. Choose the manufacturer and
catalog number of choice.

Why not go ahead and add the End Stops and End Plates as needed by inserting
spares and choosing the appropriate MFG and CAT for them as well? This way
AutoCAD Electrical will load the proper footprint to depict the end plates
and end stops as well. Note: Be sure to unselect all block and select only
the block above or below where you want to insert a spare. Once you assign
the MFG and CAT to a spare it becomes an end stop or end plate, accordingly.

Next, click on the Terminal Strip tab. You will now notice that your blocks
are double-deck, triple-deck or whatever you chose. See my attached
screenshot. This screenshot shows double-deck blocks denoted by L1 for
level 1 and L2 for level 2. The screenshot has red arrows pointing to L1
and L2. The wires are highlighted in the screenshot. In this example all
of these wires will be connected to the right-hand side of the terminal
strip when inserted vertically or the top if the strip is rotated
horizontally before it is inserted.

Now it is time to assign the terminal numbers and wires to the additional
block level, thus cutting the number of blocks needed in half. This is
tricky so be careful. Read these instructions completely before trying it.
We will assume double-deck terminals for this example. 1>Click on terminal
2, the second double-deck terminal in the list. Click on the top line of
the terminal 2 matrix. While terminal 2 is highlighted go to the lower
right of the dialog box and click the Multi-level Associate Terminals
button. Hang with me here. You have selected terminal 2 to associate to
another terminal; in this case we are associating it to terminal 1. In the
Associate Terminals dialog you will see a list of terminals in the strip.
Click on terminal one, the one you wish to associate terminal 2 with. You
will notice that terminal 1 is assigned to the Upper level. You can change
this later if you wish. Next click the Associate button in this same
dialog. You will notice that terminal 2 is assigned to the Lower level.
Note: These level names can be renamed in this dialog if you prefer
something besides Upper and Lower. If you prefer to have terminal 1 on the
Lower and terminal 2 on the Upper, simply click on terminal 2 and then click
the Move Up button or click terminal 2 and click the Move Down button.
Click OK to exit this dialog.

You will now notice that terminal 2 is now associated with terminal block 1
as its lower level. The previous location of terminal 2 is now blank.
Click on it and delete it, unless you want a spare, unmarked block to appear
in the strip. To delete it, select it, right-click, and select
Spare>Delete. Continue the above procedure to associate 4 to 3, 6 to 5,
etc., erasing the left behind spares as you go.

If you want to move wires from left to right or right to left, simply select
the wire and click the Toggle Terminal Destinations button at the bottom of
the Terminal Strip Editor window. You will now see a new box that allows
you to Toggle External to Internal or Internal to External. External and
Internal are relative terms because very often the external wires attach to
the bottom side of a terminal strip that is inserted horizontally. So just
ignore the text and use the arrows as a guide. Toggle External to Internal
effectively toggles from the right-hand side of the block to the left, while
Toggle Internal to External effectively toggles from the left-hand side of
the block to the right.

Once you have your levels associated and your wires positioned, click the
Layout Preview tab. You will now see an example of how your strip will
look, according to the MFG and CAT assignments you made. By default you
will also see wire numbers appearing on the side of the blocks that you
chose to position them. You can use the menu at the left to add wire type
(wire layer), and even the component where the other end of the wire
attaches (tag:terminal). Bear in mind that you are still looking at the
strip as if it will be inserted vertically. If you want to rotate it so it
will be horizontal on the DIN rail, click the list arrow at the bottom
middle of the dialog labeled Angle On Insert and choose 90. Note: The
layout preview will still show a vertical orientation. This is normal. The
Terminal Strip Editor's Layout Preview doesn't currently show any rotated
views of the terminal strip.

I hope this will help you get familiar with the TSE and how it handles
multi-level blocks.

Note: The instructions above are excerpts from the AutoCAD Electrical Basic
Training Tutorial, Copyright 2007-2008 by Doug McAlexander, and should not
be reproduced in any form without written consent from Doug McAlexander.


wrote in message news:5868103@discussion.autodesk.com...
Where is the best place to start with multi-level terms? How do I assign
wire numbers to each level. I am still not sure what this program is calling
"upper" and "Lower" or to "top" and "bottom". Where is the best place to do
this?
Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
*Expert Elite*
Posts: 2,806
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 3 of 27 (537 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-08-2008 06:01 PM in reply to: driesterer
For some reason the entire text did not post earlier. I will try again
below:

Just insert terminal block symbols into the schematic like normal. Assign
the Tag Strip name and terminal number, such as TB1 terminal number 1, TB1
terminal number 2, etc. Do not assign MFG or CAT to the terminals during
schematic creation. Because of the power of the new Terminal Strip Editor,
just wait until you are creating the panel layout to assign part numbers.
You see, sometimes you may decide to use multi-level blocks after you start
the panel layout and realize that you are running short of horizontal DIN
rail space. You may not know this until you start laying out the panel.
Also, if you are an Integrator, you may not know what brand of terminals
your customer wants until later in the design process.

Be sure you assign wire numbers, either automatically per drawing or
project, or manually in case certain wire numbers must follow a predefined
convention.

When you are laying out your panel and it is time to insert the terminal
strip(s) bring up the Terminal Strip Editor. You will notice that the
Terminal Strip tab is the default view and you will see your terminals
listed as single-level blocks. The wires will appear at left and/or right.
Don't worry about their positions just yet. Place your mouse cursor over
the word Terminal and left-click to sort by terminal number. For some
reason they don't appear sorted by terminal number in the default view.
Next go to the Catalog Code Assignment tab and assign the manufacturer and
catalog number. If you have determined that you need to use multi-level
blocks, choose the part number for the particular brand of multi-level
blocks you want. You can drag your mouse cursor across all of the blocks or
use SHIFT or CTRL to select all blocks at once and assign the MFG and CAT
simultaneously to all (another argument for not assigning one at a time
while creating the schematic). Once you have the blocks selected right
click over any block and select Catalog>Assign. Choose the manufacturer and
catalog number of choice.

Why not go ahead and add the End Stops and End Plates as needed by inserting
spares and choosing the appropriate MFG and CAT for them as well? This way
AutoCAD Electrical will load the proper footprint to depict the end plates
and end stops as well. Note: Be sure to unselect all block and select only
the block above or below where you want to insert a spare. Once you assign
the MFG and CAT to a spare it becomes an end stop or end plate, accordingly.

Next, click on the Terminal Strip tab. You will now notice that your blocks
are double-deck, triple-deck or whatever you chose. See my attached
screenshot. This screenshot shows double-deck blocks denoted by L1 for
level 1 and L2 for level 2. The screenshot has red arrows pointing to L1
and L2. The wires are highlighted in the screenshot. In this example all
of these wires will be connected to the right-hand side of the terminal
strip when inserted vertically or the top if the strip is rotated
horizontally before it is inserted.

Now it is time to assign the terminal numbers and wires to the additional
block level, thus cutting the number of blocks needed in half. This is
tricky so be careful. Read these instructions completely before trying it.
We will assume double-deck terminals for this example. 1>Click on terminal
2, the second double-deck terminal in the list. Click on the top line of
the terminal 2 matrix. While terminal 2 is highlighted go to the lower
right of the dialog box and click the Multi-level Associate Terminals
button. Hang with me here. You have selected terminal 2 to associate to
another terminal; in this case we are associating it to terminal 1. In the
Associate Terminals dialog you will see a list of terminals in the strip.
Click on terminal one, the one you wish to associate terminal 2 with. You
will notice that terminal 1 is assigned to the Upper level. You can change
this later if you wish. Next click the Associate button in this same
dialog. You will notice that terminal 2 is assigned to the Lower level.
Note: These level names can be renamed in this dialog if you prefer
something besides Upper and Lower. If you prefer to have terminal 1 on the
Lower and terminal 2 on the Upper, simply click on terminal 2 and then click
the Move Up button or click terminal 2 and click the Move Down button.
Click OK to exit this dialog.

You will now notice that terminal 2 is now associated with terminal block 1
as its lower level. The previous location of terminal 2 is now blank.
Click on it and delete it, unless you want a spare, unmarked block to appear
in the strip. To delete it, select it, right-click, and select
Spare>Delete. Continue the above procedure to associate 4 to 3, 6 to 5,
etc., erasing the left behind spares as you go.

If you want to move wires from left to right or right to left, simply select
the wire and click the Toggle Terminal Destinations button at the bottom of
the Terminal Strip Editor window. You will now see a new box that allows
you to Toggle External to Internal or Internal to External. External and
Internal are relative terms because very often the external wires attach to
the bottom side of a terminal strip that is inserted horizontally. So just
ignore the text and use the arrows as a guide. Toggle External to Internal
effectively toggles from the right-hand side of the block to the left, while
Toggle Internal to External effectively toggles from the left-hand side of
the block to the right.

Once you have your levels associated and your wires positioned, click the
Layout Preview tab. You will now see an example of how your strip will
look, according to the MFG and CAT assignments you made. By default you
will also see wire numbers appearing on the side of the blocks that you
chose to position them. You can use the menu at the left to add wire type
(wire layer), and even the component where the other end of the wire
attaches (tag:terminal). Bear in mind that you are still looking at the
strip as if it will be inserted vertically. If you want to rotate it so it
will be horizontal on the DIN rail, click the list arrow at the bottom
middle of the dialog labeled Angle On Insert and choose 90. Note: The
layout preview will still show a vertical orientation. This is normal. The
Terminal Strip Editor's Layout Preview doesn't currently show any rotated
views of the terminal strip.

I hope this will help you get familiar with the TSE and how it handles
multi-level blocks.

Note: The instructions above are excerpts from the AutoCAD Electrical Basic
Training Tutorial, Copyright 2007-2008 by Doug McAlexander, and should not
be reproduced in any form without written consent from Doug McAlexander.
Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-14-2006
Message 4 of 27 (537 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-09-2008 05:47 AM in reply to: driesterer
Thank you.
Why can't Autodesk have a clear explanation in their Help section?
I was able to figure out how to associate terms by the time I read your reply, but the part about doing that later not sooner is great help. Also, deleting after associating and adding end stops is much more clear now.
Thanks again,
Dennis
Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-14-2006
Message 5 of 27 (537 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-09-2008 06:00 AM in reply to: driesterer
Thanks again Doug,

Just one quick question, if I know what is in my panel and I know all I will be using is one size/type/brand multi level terminal block, Is there and advantage to not enter the cat. number and terminal strip and number, then use OK-repeat to add all the terms after the schematic is drawn? Then associate them later? Or is it just as easy to associate and add cat # etc later?
Thanks
*Expert Elite*
Posts: 2,806
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 6 of 27 (537 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-10-2008 06:43 AM in reply to: driesterer
You can lookup and assign MFG and CAT as you go and repeat insert or copy
catalog. But when you click out of Terminal Strip Editor, AutoCAD
Electrical will update all of the affected terminals with the MFG, CAT,
number of levels, etc. for you automatically.

wrote in message news:5870654@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks again Doug,

Just one quick question, if I know what is in my panel and I know all I will
be using is one size/type/brand multi level terminal block, Is there and
advantage to not enter the cat. number and terminal strip and number, then
use OK-repeat to add all the terms after the schematic is drawn? Then
associate them later? Or is it just as easy to associate and add cat # etc
later?
Thanks
Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
*Expert Elite*
Posts: 2,806
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 7 of 27 (537 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-10-2008 07:16 AM in reply to: driesterer
Dennis, some things are hard to explain in words and Autodesk has an
extensive network of training facilities available for us to get
comprehensive instructor-based hands-on training. If you were to attend the
5-day Microsoft Office training course you would be asking why doesn't
Microsoft have a better Help section, because there is so much that you
learn in that class that you don't even know you don't know.


wrote in message news:5870652@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thank you.
Why can't Autodesk have a clear explanation in their Help section?
I was able to figure out how to associate terms by the time I read your
reply, but the part about doing that later not sooner is great help. Also,
deleting after associating and adding end stops is much more clear now.
Thanks again,
Dennis
Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
Contributor
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-14-2006
Message 8 of 27 (537 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-10-2008 09:37 AM in reply to: driesterer
I would love to go to a class. My employer thinks otherwise. I cannot understand that thinking, because I know I could be so much more effective an not to mention faster. We are even a UL Listed Panel building shop so we have to have accurate prints and BOM's. We are trying.
Thanks again for your help.
Dennis
*Expert Elite*
Posts: 2,806
Registered: ‎10-18-2003
Message 9 of 27 (537 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-10-2008 10:45 AM in reply to: driesterer
Glad to help Dennis. It's a shame your employer doesn't think training is
important. They have no idea what they are losing in productivity. They
are probably putting pressure on you to deliver the goods without proper
training. That's unfair. I wish you all the best.

wrote in message news:5871402@discussion.autodesk.com...
I would love to go to a class. My employer thinks otherwise. I cannot
understand that thinking, because I know I could be so much more effective
an not to mention faster. We are even a UL Listed Panel building shop so we
have to have accurate prints and BOM's. We are trying.
Thanks again for your help.
Dennis
Doug McAlexander
Independent Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical, ecscad, and promis-e implementation

Web site: www.ECADConsultant.com
Phone: (770) 841-8009

Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Kudos are also much appreciated.
Active Contributor
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎03-10-2008
Message 10 of 27 (537 Views)

Re: multi level terminals

03-10-2008 12:03 PM in reply to: driesterer
Doug,
It looks like you know your stuff on how to edit terminal blocks. so here is another question.
First off, I am still learning how to properly draw electrical schematics and coming up with a "standard" at the same time.
What I am trying to do is show one circuit terminal blocks with four wire connection points. This is a one level block, I think; correct me if I’m wrong. Basically we are trying to create a "bus".
But all I can get to work is a separate wire into one terminal block. An example, I have four ground wires to connect to terminal block, on the schematic drawing I have a wire going to its own terminal block symbol. I know want to associate all four blocks into one terminal block with all four wires connecting to it.
Does that make sense?
What I can tell is that a “two” level block creates a two circuit terminal block and I need a four point connection one circuit terminal block.
HELP!
Nathan

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