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Distinguished Contributor
iomaxx
Posts: 178
Registered: ‎03-03-2006
Message 1 of 5 (209 Views)

dynamic terminal count for ladder bus connections?

209 Views, 4 Replies
01-31-2013 01:39 PM

just want to confirm in all my searches that i haven't missed anything...

 

If I'm using a ladder with bus power connected to all the devices feeding a 16PT I/O card, I'll need to count myself and keep track of how many terminals are needed, correct?

 

I've tried the TSE, which helps, but if i place a single terminal on the first rung of the power bus (single level terminal, with 2 connection points), and leave the rest as just DOT connections to the bus/rail in the rungs below, the TSE will tell me I don't have enough terminals, and then gives me a layout with 2 terminals (which would be 4 wire connection points).

 

in reality there are 16 connections to that bus (15 via DOT, 1 via the terminal), so I would've hoped after specifiying the terminal catalog data (with the above mentioned block properties) that it would've given me a layout with 8 terminals.

 

Is there a limit in ACADE after which extra DOTs to the same bus are not counted, maybe after 2 DOTs or something? As it is, it feels like I should just be placing bus terminals on every other rung, then using the TSE and the terminal association tool to eliminate extra terminals not needed (since other parts of the drawings will have 1 terminal for each connection to the same common bus, since they're in parts of the drawings that cannot fit a vertical bus).

 

any suggestions or something i may have missed would be helpful, but i think the 'terminal block every other rung' method and then cleaning up with the TSE after is the quickest/easiest method...

 

thanks in advance...

*Expert Elite*
Icemanau
Posts: 911
Registered: ‎06-01-2010
Message 2 of 5 (205 Views)

Re: dynamic terminal count for ladder bus connections?

01-31-2013 02:29 PM in reply to: iomaxx

Use the wire sequence tool and set that section of the ladder to "Direct to Terminal'.

 

This will force all terminations that are not on another component to be made directly to the terminal.

 

You will also need to make sure that the terminal accepts the correct number of wires per connection point for your bus. Whether this is one, two or more will have an effect.

 

Finally, within the TSE, set the side you want the wires to connect to.

 

With these steps, ACADE will automatically add the terminals required.

 

Conversley, if you have problems with the TSE adding extra terminals that are not needed, check to make sure that the wires aren't set to direct to terminal and the sequence & connection side is correct.

 

Regards Brad

Icemanau (NNTP handle: Brad Coleman)


Distinguished Contributor
iomaxx
Posts: 178
Registered: ‎03-03-2006
Message 3 of 5 (192 Views)

Re: dynamic terminal count for ladder bus connections?

02-01-2013 06:25 AM in reply to: Icemanau

thanks for the response, but a few questions.

 

the edit wire sequence i'm working on now, so i'll start messing with that.

 

"You will also need to make sure that the terminal accepts the correct number of wires per connection point for your bus. Whether this is one, two or more will have an effect."

 

the terminals in question, AB 1492-L3Q have 4 wire connection points. I've seen some posts here say that it's best to show them as 4 separate levels with 1 connection point per level, but ACADE would still expect a left and right side, so 8 connections allowable to ACADE, wouldn't it? Another thing about this is that it seems that ACADE pays attention to which side of the terminal you're connecting your schematic wiring to, is that correct? For our purposes, we just want a total connections needed, as our shop will figure out the open spots on the terminals and place the wires wherever is convenient for them. It would seem that if we just want a total connections required for a given wire #/terminal, placing a bunch of excess terminals on the schematics (like every other line) and then using TSE to trim down to the actual need would be quickest.

*Expert Elite*
Icemanau
Posts: 911
Registered: ‎06-01-2010
Message 4 of 5 (175 Views)

Re: dynamic terminal count for ladder bus connections?

02-03-2013 03:33 PM in reply to: iomaxx

Some terminals will only take 1 wire at each connection point, while others will take 2  and so on.

 

ACADE will count each terminal block inserted in the schematic as a level with left/right or top/bottom connections depending on the orientation of the strip. This is why ACAD has the terminals use an internal/external connection scheme.

 

If you insert two different blocks with one wire each. even if you give them the same number, ACADE will still count them as two terminals.

 

When you say that the terminal you specified has 4 connection points, you need to clarify if that is two on each side or 4 on each side.

 

Regards Brad

Icemanau (NNTP handle: Brad Coleman)


Distinguished Contributor
iomaxx
Posts: 178
Registered: ‎03-03-2006
Message 5 of 5 (163 Views)

Re: dynamic terminal count for ladder bus connections?

02-04-2013 08:29 AM in reply to: Icemanau

That's part of the issue, it has 2 per side, but it seems ACADE cares which side the actual wires are shown as connected to on the drawings, correct? In reality for us, we don't care, much of the terminals shown will all have the wires connected to the right side, but the shop will wire to both the right and left, whatever's available.

 

Since we have multiple pages where a bus terminal will be used only once or twice in different areas of that page, it isn't feasible to have a ladder bus on some pages, so we have individual terminals shown for each of them. Since ACADE sees each as a new terminal, we then just have to go into TSE to associate same-numbered terminals and delete the spares.

 

One concern was whether doing 2 levels with 2 connections per level or 4 levels with 1 connection matters, which in our case i think 4 levels with 1 connection is best, since we show a terminal multiple times with each time the wire is connected to the right side, it allows us to use 4 connections to the right side and only count as 1 terminal. We then have to be aware in TSE that we have to keep track that only 4 wires total can be used per terminal, since it shows 8 actually.

 

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