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cbenner
Posts: 3,132
Registered: ‎04-06-2010
Message 1 of 13 (261 Views)
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Wire Numbers by Layer format

261 Views, 12 Replies
06-28-2013 11:02 AM

I'm playing with wire numbers by layer, in the hopes of using them as line tags on P&ID's.  I figure I can set up a specific format for each wire layer... the wire layers being created for each fluid service and pipe size.  Where I am running into an issue is that for each layer, the wire numbers want to start over at the base number.... whatever that is set up to be.  This will give me duplicate line tag numbers for the different process lines in my P&ID. 

 

I think I know the answer, but is there any way that anyone knows of, to force the wire numbers to always increment regardless of the layer?

 

example:

 

wires.JPG

 

Hard to see the color, but these lines (wires) are on different layers.  There cannot be 2 "600" tags in one P&ID.  Here is how I have the wire number settings by  layer.

 

layers.JPG

 

The obvious answer would be to set a Default starting sequence number for each layer... but there's really no way of knowing what that would be until the entire P&ID is completed.

 

Any thoughts welcomed.  TIA

ChrisB

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dougmcalexander
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Message 2 of 13 (231 Views)

Re: Wire Numbers by Layer format

07-01-2013 01:35 PM in reply to: cbenner
Are you using a grid, line reference, or sequential value for %N?
Doug McAlexander
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cbenner
Posts: 3,132
Registered: ‎04-06-2010
Message 3 of 13 (214 Views)

Re: Wire Numbers by Layer format

07-02-2013 07:01 AM in reply to: dougmcalexander

dougmcalexander wrote:
Are you using a grid, line reference, or sequential value for %N?

 

 

Hey Doug,

 

Thanks for responding.  I'm using Sequential, mainly because our P&ID's tend to meander around the page, so grid or line reference may not work.  I've never really played with Grid,... that may have some possibilities.  Right now, I'm trying with sequential and trying to set it up by layer.  The problem being that each new layer wants to start number at the base number again, not picking up where the last one left off.

 

Does that make any sense?  I think (once again) I'm asking the software to do something it wasn't meant to do.  I tend to do that.

ChrisB

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algerj
Posts: 219
Registered: ‎02-25-2010
Message 4 of 13 (209 Views)

Re: Wire Numbers by Layer format

07-02-2013 08:07 AM in reply to: cbenner

Hi Chris,

 

Normally when clients use the wire numbers "based on wire layer" format, they use fixed ranges for the numbers.

Otherwise they see the same thing that you are, the sequence restarts on each layer.

Maybe you could do the same thing and have preset ranges for the pipes.

 

For Example:

00-99 Intake & Exhaust pipes

  • 00-20 (2" Pipe, for Air intake)
  • 21-40 (2"Pipe, special Coating for low viscosity oil)
  • 41-60 (Spare)
  • 61-80 (2" Pipe, for air Exhaust)
  • 81-99 (3"Pipe, For collecting oil) 

100 for Main "Feeder" Pipes

  • 101-120 (standard 2" Pipe)
  • 121-140 (standard 3" Pipe)
  • 141-160 (standard 4" Pipe)
  • 161-180 (standard 5" Pipe)
  • 181-199 (standard 6" Pipe)

200 - 400 for Smaller Pipes for controls

  • 201 - 240 (Standard 1" Pipe)
  • 241 - 280 (Standard 3/4" Pipe)
  • 281 - 320 (Standard 1/2" Pipe)
  • 321 - 360 (Standard 1/4" Pipe)
  • 361 - 399 (Standard 1/8" Pipe)

This might be easier to control and manage. (your ranges would be different)

Instead of letting the wire number (pipe number), run wild and restart everytime you switch layers.

This way If the wire numbers restarts its not a big deal since you will set the start as the first number in the preset section.

 

I hope this helps,

 

James Alger

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cbenner
Posts: 3,132
Registered: ‎04-06-2010
Message 5 of 13 (206 Views)

Re: Wire Numbers by Layer format

07-02-2013 08:22 AM in reply to: algerj

James,

 

This has got me thinking.  I would have to do a sell job to my PM's, but since they tasked with with figuring out how to make this work... it might be an easy sell.  Something like this may just be the ticket... as long as we don't get too many chiefs deciding on the breakdown ( maybe I'll just come up with a chart on my own and tell them what its' gonna be!)

 

Thanks for the idea!

ChrisB

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algerj
Posts: 219
Registered: ‎02-25-2010
Message 6 of 13 (202 Views)

Re: Wire Numbers by Layer format

07-02-2013 08:32 AM in reply to: cbenner

No problem,

 

Glad I could help!

 

James

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testsubject
Posts: 1,072
Registered: ‎03-09-2004
Message 7 of 13 (197 Views)

Re: Wire Numbers by Layer format

07-02-2013 09:47 AM in reply to: algerj

Chris,

 

Technically, you are giving each wire a unique value even though each has a 600 in it.

Bob Hanrahan
Ace User since 1998
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Icemanau
Posts: 911
Registered: ‎06-01-2010
Message 8 of 13 (184 Views)

Re: Wire Numbers by Layer format

07-02-2013 05:00 PM in reply to: cbenner

Before you actually write your list, check and see if the official P&I standards have a list set up for various functions.

This would give your PM's even less room to complain and fight about it.

 

I know that the Australian Wiring Standards have certain prefixes and number ranges for different functions.

For example

 

A Primary Protection CT's

B Bus Bar Protection CT's

C Overcurrent prptection CT's

D Instrument & Metering CT's

E Instrument & Metering Voltage

F Reference Voltage for Voltage Control

 

and so on for the prefixes while Numbers go from certain ranges for the phase/neutral/earth to unlimited for other functions like close/trip circuits.

 

Regards Brad

Icemanau (NNTP handle: Brad Coleman)


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cbenner
Posts: 3,132
Registered: ‎04-06-2010
Message 9 of 13 (169 Views)

Re: Wire Numbers by Layer format

07-03-2013 07:26 AM in reply to: testsubject

Yes,  but these are not wires... they represent pipes.  In a P&ID you don't duplicate line tag numbers.  The 600 is the tag number, the other strings represent size, fluid code and pipe spec.

 

There is just no pretty way to do this.  The solution idea works... but now on a vertical pipe my tags are horizontal running perpendicular to the pipeline!  And if two pipelines intersect, Electrical sees them as one "wire", thus only assigning a "wire" number to one of them.

 

Face in hand, shaking head.

ChrisB

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algerj
Posts: 219
Registered: ‎02-25-2010
Message 10 of 13 (164 Views)

Re: Wire Numbers by Layer format

07-03-2013 07:42 AM in reply to: cbenner

Hi Chris,

 

For the text running the wrong way (I seem to recall that Hydraulic Pipes, or Pneumatic hoses have to have the text running beside it, not perpendicular to it).

You can fix the text by rotating the Attribute, using Rotate Attribute. (works on normal text as well)

(Schematics > Edit Components > Move/show attribute dropdown > Select Rotate Attribute)

 

For the Vertical /Horizontal wire (errrr...pipe) issue, you can Flag the " on per wire basis" in the project properties.

This will treat each wire (pipe) as a separate wire.

 

If that's not working right you could always create a fake Component that forces a wire number change.

(just create a line with two connections, and hide all the attributes)

 

I hope this helps,

 

James Alger

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