Title Block Issue in IEC Demo Project

[ccad2509]

IEC Demo Project

First thing I noticed was in the drawing properties

Description 1 line in a schematic drawing had data in but was not mapped into the title block

So looking at the Title block set up attributes title#1 to 4 are in the right position but were mapped to different project/drawing data

Title#1 =Customer

Title#2 =Drawing No

Title#3 =Job Model No

So I remapped the attributes

Title#1 = Drawing Description 1

Title#2 = Drawing Description 2

Title#3 = Drawing Description 3

I then Wblocked the title block and then swapped all the title blocks in the project for my new title block

Since only description line 1 was filled in I added some random descriptions in description lines 2 & 3

Then did a project wide title block update and just like magic the descriptions appeared in the title blocks happy days

Now the reason for all this is what I thought I had an issue with a company title block

So I selected a page in the project and removed the page from the project all good

Now I added the drawing back into the project and you can clearly see the descriptions in the title block

But when you go to drawing properties

Everything is mapped into the drawing properties except the description lines 1 to 3

Which means if you do a title block update the information in the description lines will disappear

And having added 50 plus pages means a long a painful manual re-entry of the description lines

So is this the way it’s supposed to work or am I being an idiot here

 

[dougmcalexander]

The reason the description fields are blank is because you removed the drawings from the project.  The Drawing Descriptions are stored in the .WDP file, the Project Definition File, not the drawing itself.  The reasoning behind this is that the same drawing could be used in a different project and serve a different purpose in that project.  For example, you have a favorite motor circuit drawing.  You copy it into a new project.  In the previous project the drawing description stated that it was a pump motor circuit. In the new project, the motor is controlling a conveyer.  You define the drawing's purpose for a project after you add it to the project.  Of course if you create a New drawing for a project, you fill in the Description fields as you define, file name, INST, LOC, Sheet, etc.

Open the .WDP file and you will see the Drawing Description Lines shown just above the file names.  (see attached)

Hint: You can export the Drawing Settings to a spreadsheet, prior to removing the drawings from a project, and then use Update From Spreadsheet to repopulate the data after the drawings are added back.  The radio button is labeled as "Drawing Settings" but it will export both Drawing Settings and the Drawing Descriptions, as listed in the .WDP file. This feature was added in release 2012, so I don't want to confuse anyone else who might read this who is using an older version of AutoCAD Electrical.

[ccad2509]

Sorry Doug you’ve done it again

Long answer but only a partial avoiding answer

The salient point is when I add drawings into a project Acade Maps into the project manager

Everything but the Description lines the other 7 fields fill in no problem

By your logic ACADE should not map in these fields and all the fields should be blank

And your comment on editing the description line is even more important

Because the chances are the page number may already exist in the project

And the installation /location codes are vital

Example you may have a pump circuit based on installation/location A1+M1

So when you add the drawings and you may already have an existing pump circuit already allocated to A1+M1

What do you now do?

Your suggestion will be use the ACADE to spreadsheet utility which adds more confusion in the workflow because ACADE doesn’t have a dedicated INST / LOC Editing facility

You have to edit the INST/LOC codes

This is either a problem or a deliberate action

Your whole spreadsheet to Acade utility is a red herring

(Is this your new favourite feature I have noticed you’ve stopped telling people to delete the scratch database after our discussion regarding its faults?)

The idea of using the IEC demo is to replicate someone else’s problem of adding groups of standard drawings into a new project in an enviroment that can be easily replicated by others

Suggestion

Add another menu when you add/copy drawings where you can filter the data fields you want to be mapped into the drawing properties

What would really be good is the ability to edit and overwrite existing data in the drawings you are adding into the project

I.e. Replace INST/LOC codes

Start the page numbers at a user entered value

So is anybody at Autodesk going to comment on this potential issue is it a bug or a deliberate function?

[ccad2509]

Had a think and play with Doug’s method of getting the information in to the description fields

I.e. use export to Excel file

Now remember the whole point of the original exercise was to demonstrate when adding new drawings to a project that the descriptions fields are not mapped into the drawing properties but strangely everything else gets into it

Step 1 Add your new drawings into the project

Step 2 Export to excel file using the page data options

All you get is blank fields because its reading the WPD file not the attributes in the drawing

Step 3 Edit the spreadsheet and type in all the missing data

Step 4 Import the data back into Acade

Step 5 Run title block update to get it to synchronise the Wdp File with the title block information

My thoughts

1) All in all a pretty long and messy way to get you description lines into you project

2) It shows people that don’t use this package at all that it’s reliant on continually exporting data into third party applications to make it work

Is that the image you want to project for you engineering application?

Now here’s a thought how about a button on the title block update to reverse the process i.e. map the drawing data into the wpd file instead of vice versa

[dougmcalexander]

Listen, your rudeness! I answer questions on this forum at my own expense. I don't work for Autodesk. If you don't like the software, call Autodesk. The purpose of this forum is to help people understand what the software CAN do, and to share ideas, not to constantly badger Autodesk or anyone else.

I take MY time to write these loooong answers so everything is clear to a reader, not just the reader who posted the question, but others who might read the post in the future. If a short answer would suffice, that is better for me, but I try to do what is better for readers of this forum who are trying to learn the software on their own. I could withhold the answers, spend time with my family, and only help those who pay to attend my training classes. But I know that there are those on this forum in a foreign country who might not be able to pay to get to a class.

I find that short answers often lead to more questions, so I try to anticipate every possible angle that someone might struggle with and cover it. And I'm not just answering that one post; I am anticipating that someone else may read the post later, and their struggle may be from one of the other angles. And again, my purpose is to help them understand what the software CAN do now, not to redesign it on this forum.

I was hesitant to even answer your post, but I knew the answer to why you were getting those results, and thought I would try to help you, even though you have been rude. But never again! You are on your own buddy!

Why don't you just go buy the other software you love so dearly, that does everything you can possibly imagine, and always works perfectly? Or better still, why not develop your own software, since you know so much about how software like this should function. The people, yes people, at Autodesk work ridiculous hours to provide this tool for us. I appreciate what they do. I have requests for enhancements as well, but I simply send the idea to them for future consideration. I don't verbally abuse them and whine at them incessantly. They are human beings who work to make us happy. Imagine how they feel if we ignore all that they did well only to insult them when something is not to our liking. You could go back to a drafting board or use plain AutoCAD. How would you feel if it was you being told constantly that you're an idiot? Yes, please develop your own software, and be sure to pay for a discussion forum like this one, so we can all harass you!

[ccad2509]

Well that was quite a vitriolic rant from you this morning

What I did was point out that the answer to my posting was not correct and the solution you offered up was clunky at best

Is this a problem or is this the way it’s supposed to work

If it’s a problem then add it to the list of problems that exist that is in part what this forum is all about

(That’s unless you think it’s a platform where Doug can preach to the masses)

If it’s the way it’s supposed to work then somebody might want to review this in the light its basically bad workflow

You are of the obvious opinion that ACADE is a perfect product and has no issues

(Or maybe your fully aware of the issues and want them to stay so you can sell you services to people who having problems)

I’m not I see issues and I make people aware I want a better product and sitting back slapping each other on the back and telling each other how wonderful it is not the way forward

In Europe sales of Acade is based on companion pricing which is if you have an inventor you can get ACADE for £500

And this is the only sales generated of the product because if it goes up against any other electrical engineering product it loses hands down

It can’t keep up with the functionality of Eplan which is more expensive or the pricing of the likes of IGE-XAO /WSCAD

So the product you love so much is either to expensive or not capable of doing the job

Contacting Autodesk you mentioned a previous post wont listen to you at Autodesk so what chance have I!!!!!!!

BTW I do own those other software packages we have discussed that before

You might want to take off your signature at the bottom of your posts because that’s a breach of the forum rules regarding advertising goods and services or are you special exception?

[jalger]

Originally I was going to post something to answer your question.

But then i saw the name CCAD2509, and went wait its the guys who hates Autodesk! (So why would I bother helping you)

You want an answer to your original question are you being an idiot?

well, yes you are, and not for your use of the product.

I love how you post questions that your trying to get people reiled up, to see what crap you can stur up.

Why don't you just leave the fourm? Clearly you have alllll the answers!

As Doug suggested why don't you go Write your Own software, then we can harass you, and complain that your software blows, or doesn't do something the wat WE think it should work.

Go Ahead Report this as inappropriate! Half of your posts could be flagged the same way!

If I could get away with telling to do something to yourself I would... but that would be sinking down to your level.

so instead I'll just say If your not here to help, Leave.

[vladop]

Project code, Installation code, Location code, Sheet number and Drawing number are saved in the drawing on the WD_M block.

Attributes are IEC_PROJ, IEC_INST, IEC_LOC, SHEET and SHEETDWGNAME, respectively.

As Doug said, Description 1, Description 2, Description 3, Section and Sub-section are saved in wdp file.

So when you add drawing to your project ACADE can only see data stored in WD_M block.

Vladimir

[PatMurnen_Adsk]

I added a post to the AutoCAD Electrical Idea Station about the drawing descriptions being lost when drawings are added to another project. You can vote for it by clicking the Kudos button. I also logged it in our tracking system.

I don't think there is a perfect workaround since as others have said the drawing descriptinos are in the .wdp file and not on the drawing's WD_M block where the other values are stored. If there are a large number of drawings you might want to just copy the project and its drawings to the new project name. Then the drawing descriptions are maintained. Another option is to edit the .wdp file manually to copy and paste the drawings, along with their descriptions, from one .wdp to another. Just don't have the projects open in AutoCAD Electrical when you open and edit the .wdp files. The .wdp format is described in the Help topic, About the Project .WDP File.

Hopefully the addition of the new IdeaStation site will make it easier to get your ideas directly to Autodesk.

Regards,

Pat Murnen

[ccad2509]

Thanks Pat

that is the issue trying to cut and paste large sections of differnet projects into one

Chunks of 100+ pages into a projetc of 500 pages means lots of data entry

cheers

[PatMurnen_Adsk]

I absolutely agree, no perfect solution with the current capability of the product. 

Regards,

Pat

[dougmcalexander]

Pat, as a work-around couldn't we export the Drawing Settings of the project they are added into, and edit the Description Lines in the spreadsheet?  At least this way you don't have to open each drawing and edit its Drawing Properties one at a time.  Just export Drawing Settings, edit them all at once in the spreadsheet, and then update from the spreadsheet, which will fill in the missing Drawing Descriptions.  This is the way I currently do it, when the need arises.  I just haven't found a better way with current versions of the software.

[PatMurnen_Adsk]

Doug,

yes, this is another option. And if the Drawing Descriptions are the same it is even quicker. Export, add the drawings to other project, import drawing settings.I didn't include it in my workarounds since you had mentioned it already.

Regards,

Pat

[dougmcalexander]

Thanks Pat!  I just wanted to be sure.  I like spreadsheet edits.  I get to see all attributes at once.  Sometimes I catch a typo, a part number missing, wrong part number.  I'm so thankful you guys gave us that capability.  For quick and simple, I use Find/Edit/Replace, but for mass edits and a quick view of project data, I like to export to spreadsheet.

[PatMurnen_Adsk]

While I was researching something else I was looking at my drawing's AutoCAD Custom Drawing Properties. This is the command DWGPROPS. A dialog pops up with some tabs, and one of them is the Custom tab. This is base AutoCAD functionality. But, while looking at this I noticed that some of my AutoCAD Electrical drawing properties were there, specifically the Drawing Descriptions 1-3, Section, and Sub-Section. See the attached image. It looks like AutoCAD Electrical writes the values to the AutoCAD custom properties when I use the AutoCAD Electrical Drawing Properties dialog and edit these values.

Anyway, these are the ones we are talking about here that get lost if you add the drawing to another project. So I started thinking maybe I can find a way to use these and get them into my .WDP file after I add them to a project.

The idea would be -

1. I have drawings that are part of Project 1 that AutoCAD Electrical added custom properties on when I added my Drawing Properties for Drawing Description 1-3, section and sub-section.

2. I want to use these drawings or copies of them in Project 2.

3. I add them to Project 2.

4. I run my new function that reads the AutoCAD Custom Properties for the drawings I select, and writes those to the .WDP file.

I now have my Project 2 .WDP file up to date with my drawing properties.

I am not sure when AutoCAD Electrical started writing those values to the AutoCAD custom properties. I looked at 2014 and 2015 which is all I have installed right now, and they both write them. Maybe others can see if earlier releases did this as well.

Anyone interested in trying a function that would do this? I think I can write it pretty quickly. I was thinking it might be nice to have options to only write the values if there are not values already, i.e. blank only. Also have check boxes for the 5 values so you can pick which ones you want to update from the drawing and write to the .WDP.

Let me know if you are interested. 

Regards,

Pat Murnen

[jalger]

Hi Pat,

I just checked 2013, it exports the Drawing Properties to custom Properties. (i remember it doing this as far back as 2010).

The WDP File pulls in the Drawing Values for Each drawing from this location, temporary holds, uses it,  then drops it.

Here is a list of the ones that I know of in the WDP File:

?[13]   (Not Editable [auto clears the field] – Stores DWG specific “Sheet”

?[46]   (Not Editable [auto clears the field] – Stores DWG specific “Drawing” value)

?[51]   (Not Editable [auto clears the field] – Stores DWG specific “Project” IEC code)

?[52]   (Not Editable [auto clears the field] – Stores DWG specific “Installation” IEC code)

?[53]   (Not Editable [auto clears the field] – Stores DWG specific “Location” IEC code)

As for the Section, Sub -Section, and the 3 Descriptions they show up as Flavour Text above the Drawing in question.

i.e.

If you have A for section, A-4, as Sub Section, and the your Drawing Descriptions are Test1, Test2 and Test3 (I got lazy here) 🙂

you would see:

=A   (Section)
==A-4  (Sub-Section)
===Test1 (Desc 1) You see "===" if Desc1 is empty
===Test2 (Desc 2)
===Test3 (Desc 3)
DEMO04.DWG

If you have alot of data that's reused, Open up the original WDP and Copy the text above the file over.

(If you copied over all drawing you should be safe enough to copy everything including the Drawing name)

It Blanks it out because it Re-adds the drawing during the copy operation.

I hope this helps,

James

[PatMurnen_Adsk]

James,

yes, that was the suggestion I made previously - to copy the data from one .wdp to another. But, if you have drawings from a number of different projects it can get messy. And it can be easy to make an error that way. I was thinking since the data is already on the AutoCAD custom properties we just need an easy way to get it to the .wdp which is where AutoCAD Electrical expects them. 

If anyone on this thread wants to work with me on this just post here or email me directly at pat.murnen@autodesk.com. By the way, I am not on the development team but like to do some small development things like this on my own time as a hobby. So I can do the coding, if anyone wants to help try it and make suggestions on how it should work.

Regards,

Pat

[jalger]

Hi Pat,

Sure I can help you test it.

Let me know,

James

[PatMurnen_Adsk]

Cool. I will try and post something soon to try. 

-Pat

[vladop]

This reminded me that I experimented whit custom drawing properties and that I had to use PROPULATE command (Express Tool) to update custom drawing properties. It was in 2010.

You have to define template file (see dwgprop.prp). This file defines which data from the drawing is used by PROPULATE command to update custom drawing properties.

I made script file (dwgprop.scr) to update all drawings in the project using Project-Wide Utilities.

I'm not sure if wdp file reads custom drawing properties. It seem that custom drawing properties are changed by ACADE only when drawing is created. If you change ACADE Drawing Settings after that, custom drawing properties are not changed. I had to update title block and than use PROPULATE command to read new values from the title block.

But, since data that you want to copy (DESCRIPTION 1, 2, 3) are generally on the title block, I suggest to make a lisp that will:

1. read data from the title block,
2. read project data with c:wd_proj_wdp_data,
3. append data for the new drawing,
4. update drawing properties with c:wd_proj_wdp_write.

Vladimir