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Distinguished Contributor
dbrblg
Posts: 312
Registered: ‎10-10-2007
Message 1 of 11 (416 Views)

Terminal Editor Corruption

416 Views, 10 Replies
03-28-2013 03:28 AM

I'm having some issues with the terminal block editor as you'll be able to see from the attached image....

 

Firstly, why are there yellow highlights?  I cannot find anything in the documentation.

 

The second, and possibily more relevant thing, is why there are multiple wire connections when there shouldn't be.

If you take the first terminal for instance.  In the yellow highlighted area there is device Z1103.  The terminal this device is attached to is in another terminal rail (x3 in this case)!!  The same is actually true of U1171 further down the list along with a lot of others.  Why are terminals from another terminal rail in this one?

Another thing is that this particular terminal is in the database as a single level terminal so why are two L1's available per terminal?

 

In my mind it is pointing to some kind of corruption but I've tried rebuilding the project database, updating the project but nothing seems to be clearing this issue.  

 

Does anyone know how to solve this issue?

 

Thanks

*Expert Elite*
Icemanau
Posts: 909
Registered: ‎06-01-2010
Message 2 of 11 (381 Views)

Re: Terminal Editor Corruption

04-01-2013 03:26 PM in reply to: dbrblg

I don't know about the Yellow Highlights but they could just be for contrast between the lines.

 

The terminal information for the database entry could be allowing TWO wires per connection point which is why you have what looks like a second level. A dual level terminal (or triple level) shows as a slightly different setup.

 

To see what terminal information is tied to the catalog entry, open the TSE and select the terminal strip. Now right click on one of the terminals. Select Block Properties from the popup and this will list the information for that terminal type. ACADE does include a tool to edit the settings for the terminal information. you will have to do a quick search for it. I sue the drop down menus and turn the ribbon off so I'm not sure where on the ribbon it would be. In the drop down menu it was located under Components->Terminals as Terminal Properties Database Editor

 

See the TSE image I've attached. It shows some single level terminals and some triple level terminals.

 

 

As for the terminals from another strip being included in this strip, all I can suggest is to actually edit the terminals in the schematic, check what strip they are assigned to and then save and close the project.

 

Now find the <PROJECT_NAME>.mdb file and delete it. This file is the actual project database and can become corrupt quite easily. NOTE that for this step you may be required to close ACADE itself.

 

Finally, open the project again and ACADE will rebuild the project database from the dwgs.

 

Regards Brad

Icemanau (NNTP handle: Brad Coleman)


Distinguished Contributor
dbrblg
Posts: 312
Registered: ‎10-10-2007
Message 3 of 11 (356 Views)

Re: Terminal Editor Corruption

04-02-2013 06:53 AM in reply to: dbrblg

Hi, thanks for your reply.

 

I tried deleting the project DB but I still get the same results.  I have seen something about refreshing the TERMLINK attribute but cannot find any command to do this.  Not sure of its relevance so maybe something to try if I could find out how to do it.

 

Shame abouy Autodesks lack of documentation regarding the extra yellow highlighting...

Distinguished Contributor
s.wile
Posts: 135
Registered: ‎12-08-2008
Message 4 of 11 (346 Views)

Re: Terminal Editor Corruption

04-02-2013 12:03 PM in reply to: dbrblg

The yellow rows typically mean you have too many wires per side. According to my default Terminal Properties database, an AB 1492-J can accept two connections per side. That is why there are two rows. In my case I have three on one side and four on the other. So the terminal strip editor is highlighting the bottom two rows as an issue.

 TS Test 1.jpg

I don’t know why yours are showing as yellow.

 

As for the extra connections... Try surfing on these terminals and see if anything odd is associated to this strip. Maybe also verify that you can edit/see the Terminals Properties tables using the Terminal Properties Database Editor.

 

Stan Wile
http://myacade.blogspot.com/
IMAGINiT Technologies
Distinguished Contributor
dbrblg
Posts: 312
Registered: ‎10-10-2007
Message 5 of 11 (326 Views)

Re: Terminal Editor Corruption

04-03-2013 11:46 PM in reply to: s.wile

To all intents the terminals are ok.  You can surf on them and they have the correct properties (that I can make out from the help files!!)  I have tried swapping to another catalog number but the same problems exist.

 

Very strange this.

 

Something I've also noticed, when I place a terminal, I am unable to chose lower or upper from the properties/associations box.  I t defaults to upper when I edit component and flicks back to upper when I click on lower.....

Distinguished Contributor
dbrblg
Posts: 312
Registered: ‎10-10-2007
Message 6 of 11 (279 Views)

Re: Terminal Editor Corruption

04-15-2013 02:22 AM in reply to: dbrblg

Well, I have made some progress in identifying the problem.  What remains is how to solve it.

 

As you can see from the "Terminal Before" image, I have some yellow highlights indicating I have extra connections to the terminals.  The "Terminals After" image shows the problem goes away when I remove some wires in the schematic. The "Schematic" image shows what I did - basically I removed some wires from the terminals with the same number and the problem goes away.

 

I can sort of see why the termial strip editor is getting confused - there are a number of extra connections to a terminal of the same number but I would have thought ACADE would have been intelligent enough to consider this kind of problem.  Adding jumper bars between the terminals has no effect.

 

This does sound like this is a bug to me as I cannot see any other way of creating a terminal rail without connecting the wires to the remaining terminals and adding a jumper.

 

Does anyone else have this problem?  If this is not a problem, perhaps Autodesk would advise how the software is intended to be used to create terminals in this way?

 

Thanks

*Expert Elite*
Icemanau
Posts: 909
Registered: ‎06-01-2010
Message 7 of 11 (262 Views)

Re: Terminal Editor Corruption

04-15-2013 03:02 PM in reply to: dbrblg

Have you set your wire sequence?

 

I know that ACADE has some trouble defining the wire sequence when just using the connection dots.

 

It is quite possible that ACADE is automatically taking some of the wires Direct to Terminal when they need to be looped instead.

 

Regards Brad

Icemanau (NNTP handle: Brad Coleman)


Distinguished Contributor
dbrblg
Posts: 312
Registered: ‎10-10-2007
Message 8 of 11 (245 Views)

Re: Terminal Editor Corruption

04-18-2013 12:18 AM in reply to: dbrblg

Hi Brad, 

 

Not sure what you mean by wire sequence but I have no overrides on Tag/Wire Order Number Order, Solid Wire Cross  and Dot Wire Tee.

 

Out of interest, I changed these settings a few times yet I still get the same results, in my case at least.

 

Am I the only one who draws like this?  How do others achieve the same thing? Is it something I am doing wrong :smileyfrustrated:

*Expert Elite*
Icemanau
Posts: 909
Registered: ‎06-01-2010
Message 9 of 11 (229 Views)

Re: Terminal Editor Corruption

04-18-2013 03:22 PM in reply to: dbrblg

The wire sequence tells ACADE how the wire is going to be run physically. We can show a switch next to a CB and then a contact and finally a terminal, with them all having a common connection.

 

When wired, we would possibly go from the CB to the contact, then to the terminal before ending at the switch. ACAD would see the sequence as the Switch, CB, contact and then the terminal. ACADE could also decide to wire everything back to the terminal (Direct to Terminal) or some mix of the two. This is possibly what ACADE is doing in your case.

 

I'm not sure where the Wire Sequence tool is on the ribbon but it should be under the Wires tool. This tool will provide a list of how the wires are connected when you select a wire. It will also show any direct to terminal wires. If there are any Direct to Terminal wires, clear the sequence and then set the sequence to what you need.

 

Hopefully this will clear your problem with the terminal on that wire. To clear all of them, you would need to do this on ALL the wires connected to the problem terminals.

 

Regards Brad

Icemanau (NNTP handle: Brad Coleman)


Distinguished Contributor
dbrblg
Posts: 312
Registered: ‎10-10-2007
Message 10 of 11 (214 Views)

Re: Terminal Editor Corruption

04-19-2013 06:43 AM in reply to: Icemanau

I had a play around with the wire sequence and no matter which combination I tried, I would not get any different results.

 

I did some more research and found this article which does kind of indicate there is some confusion on ACADEs part when using dots instead of angles as it does not know where the wire joins are located on the wire.

 

I did some exprimentation with a cutdown version of the diagram - one using dots and the other angles to see what happens within ACADE.  The result, well different depending on whether you use a dot or an angle.  The angle surprisingly still shows an error.....:smileyfrustrated:

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