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Suggestion: Manual

47 REPLIES 47
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Message 1 of 48
pmccutcheon
482 Views, 47 Replies

Suggestion: Manual

There seems to be a lot of complaints and hand wringing about the manuals

Suggestion: the old VIA17 manuals were fairly decent. I'm sure at least 90% still applies to AE2006. Why not just post the old manual in PDF format, with a proviso/caveat that this is "old" information.

Helps out the users, easy to do for developer, everybody happy
47 REPLIES 47
Message 2 of 48

Hi pmccutcheon,

As previously mentioned, all of the information in the old VIA manual is found in the ACE Help with some information also found in the Getting Started Guide. With ACE 2006, you are able to print sections of the Help system at once so if you want all of the information regarding Library Naming Conventions you can print just that section whereas if you want information on all of ACE, then you can print the entire Help system.

The old VIA manual will only help you to a degree as many of the commands have changed, new commands have been added, and additional information that was not previously provided in the VIA manual has been added to the ACE Help.

If there is anything you cannot find in the ACE 2006 Help, please let me know and I will try to direct you to the information.

Thanks,
Heather Schwartz
Autodesk/AutoCAD Electrical DSS
Message 3 of 48
pmccutcheon
in reply to: pmccutcheon

I guess we aren't up to 2006 yet... noticed others with same complaint
Message 4 of 48
Anonymous
in reply to: pmccutcheon

Can you contact me directly at nate.holt@autodesk.com when you have time?
thanks! Nate.
wrote in message news:4945257@discussion.autodesk.com...
I guess we aren't up to 2006 yet... noticed others with same complaint
Message 5 of 48
pmccutcheon
in reply to: pmccutcheon

happily I do have the VIA17 manuals ... so I'm okay ... merely suggesting something for the unwashed masses
Message 6 of 48
lkirkup
in reply to: pmccutcheon

Great idea. Printed the entire help file only to find there is NO INDEX to relate to the PAGE NUMBERS.
Books have indexes that relate to the page numbers.
Stop being tight arses and produce a proper manual for Autocad Electrical. Message was edited by: Kirkup
Message 7 of 48

Just an FYI: There isn't an index since you are printing online Help - not a book. The page numbers are automatically generated because you are printing from HTML files -- similarly to what you would see if you printed from a website. The page numbers are not generated by Autodesk nor should they be used as any sort of reference.

Thanks for your feedback,

Heather Schwartz
Autodesk/AutoCAD Electrical DSS
Message 8 of 48
ssherwick
in reply to: pmccutcheon

Ahhh, Well.......

Doh!!!!

What you're saying is we don't need a manual because you gave us help files that can be printed.

Now you tell us we don't have an index because it's printed help files rather than a manual.

Electrical engineers are usually programmers to, we can detect circular logic paths.

AutoCAD has made the decision to not provide a manual exclusive of the feedback from its users. This is of course YOUR right. As is it is OUR right to be very unhappy.

Not to be a drudge but we still depend on our Release 17 manuals for training because it's REALLY hard to be trying out an example when half your screen is occupied by the help file.

This would have been more strongly phrased but you seem to have a filter on a word intended to describe the result of the use of vacuum.

Regards,

Steve
Message 9 of 48
Anonymous
in reply to: pmccutcheon

I am sorry but I have to agree,
Yet again we have the same old problem rearing its head.
I have lost count of the number of threads about the inadequate manual since
I purchased my copy of ACADE at the beginning of the year.
To give you an overview.
Firstly after purchasing my copy of ACADE 2005 at the beginning of the year,
I notice that ACADE 2006 is released (no mention of this when I purchased my
product), all of a sudden support issues seem to be answered with "This
problem has been addressed in ACADE 2006". Well I am sorry but I purchased
ACADE 2005 in 2005 and as far as I am aware it is still 2005 and the product
should still be being updated, upgraded and fully supported. I can
understand beta versions of ACADE 2006 being released, but to me it seems
totally wrong that the 2006 product should be marketed as the current
solution to many of the ACADE 2005 problems. I think that you should support
the purchasers of the 2005 product instead of marketing the 2006 product
before time.

Secondly, Why can't we have a proper user manual like the ones included in
the mechanical package.
The point of a totally comprehensive manual, is that it can be referred to
over and over again both as a memory aid when using little used functions
and more importantly as a training aid when introducing new draftsmen/women
to the AutoCAD methodology.
I don't want to be overly negative but it would seem to me as one of the
"great unwashed" that there are two reasons for not producing a
comprehensive manual similar to those supplied with the mechanical packages;
1. Cost saving
2. Cheap marketing ploy to force users to purchase additional training
and support services.
I notice from your advertising of this product that you stress the benefits
of using the ACADE system over competitor products. I think that you should
be more honest and indicate the true cost of using the product I.e.
a. Base price of product.
b Yearly upgrade fee.
c. Purchase of additional training literature and software.
d. Purchase of training course from external provider.

I look forward to you honest and helpful replies.

Regards,
David Sims
(frustrated AutoCAD user since 2005 - AutoCAD mechanical user since 1985)

wrote in message news:4948638@discussion.autodesk.com...
Ahhh, Well.......

Doh!!!!

What you're saying is we don't need a manual because you gave us help files
that can be printed.

Now you tell us we don't have an index because it's printed help files
rather than a manual.

Electrical engineers are usually programmers to, we can detect circular
logic paths.

AutoCAD has made the decision to not provide a manual exclusive of the
feedback from its users. This is of course YOUR right. As is it is OUR right
to be very unhappy.

Not to be a drudge but we still depend on our Release 17 manuals for
training because it's REALLY hard to be trying out an example when half
your screen is occupied by the help file.

This would have been more strongly phrased but you seem to have a filter on
a word intended to describe the result of the use of vacuum.

Regards,

Steve
Message 10 of 48
rta53
in reply to: pmccutcheon

I agree totally. I don't understand why you can't produce at least one manual for ACADE even if it's only in PDF format. Then you could just update it with each new version like you do with standard AutoCad.
Message 11 of 48
maomuckmar
in reply to: pmccutcheon

i have a much darker view of the manual farce
it seems to me that the powers that be wants upgrades every year for autocad products
forcing the great unwashed mases to hand over their cash
it seems to me that the latest release of acade was rushed out
having to sacrifice resouces to getting the software ready
the manual was effectivley ignored
now if some one would put up there hand and say yes we made a mistake rather than trying to spin there way out of the situation then i would be happier

if you competitors can produce decent manuals and other autocad products come with large manuals

you realy cant stand there and think we would belive these pathetic excuses that your making about this situation !!!!
Message 12 of 48
Alejandro79
in reply to: pmccutcheon

Boy you are grim.
I merely thought that it was to avoid piracy. PDF manuals spread across the web like wildfire.
This way, getting illegal copies of the soft doesn´t get you anyware (or at least you have to buy some book or training).
And as for the help files, they do help if you know your way around autocad and electrical. But being totally new to it like i was, it took me about a month to feel comfortable working with it. AND there is still A LOT that i would like to know about for certain.

Saludos.
Alejandro.
Message 13 of 48
amt_controls
in reply to: pmccutcheon

I like how some people have called AutoDesk out. I agree with all of the points listed by non AutoDesk people.

No Manual, no Phone support. It sure seems like they like to push the product onto us and not tell us how to use it.

It's very time consuming trying to find questions in the help files. And most of the questions are not there.

You would please a lot of people with a written manual. I still haven't heard a good reason why there isn't one.
Message 14 of 48

No CAD program is as intuitive as say MS Word or something like that. At least some entry level training should be expected when working with CAD tools. There is a network of qualified trainers just waiting for your call. I would suggest contacting your Autodesk dealer and inquiring about their training options. There are very good training resources available, do-it-yourself style (though somewhat limited), and classroom hands on. You can travel to a training facility or have someone conduct training onsite at your facility.


Doug McAlexander


Design Engineer/Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical training and implementation support

Phone and Web-based Support Plans Available

Phone: (770) 841-8009

www.linkedin.com/in/doug-mcalexander-1a77623




Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Likes are also much appreciated.
Message 15 of 48
maomuckmar
in reply to: pmccutcheon

Interesting post

Some points I would like to repeat

All other AutoCAD products come with extensive manuals

Q) Why can’t we have the same for Acade?

Q) Why are we the odd ones out?
(See my last post on my thoughts on that one)

The AutoCAD dealerships I have dealt with are only interested in selling boxes

And or tend to be full of people who understand mechanical products but don’t understand the needs and requirements of electrical designers / engineers

I know of one company that did not buy Acade on the grounds that the technical support could not be guaranteed to the level of competing products

The embarrassing thing about that situation was the AutoCAD dealership trying to sell them the product was in the same building

Now onto training I have a photocopy of the manual issued to trainers which does not inspire my confidence
In course content or tutors abilities at present

So I would not pay for a course at present

So now comes to comment that will probably get me barred from this newsgroup

With AutoDesk ignoring the fundamentals (a decent manual)

Which I have come to the conclusion will be issued with Acade 2007

AutoDesk is developing a bad reputation with lack of technical support / software full off problems and quite simply is not up to the task compared with its competitors

Your loosing sales what are you going to do about it?
Message 16 of 48
cawaugh
in reply to: pmccutcheon

This is for all who replied:
All help systems provide a certain level of information. Once you understand the system, it is easier to find the basic information you are looking for. If you want more, try an Authorized Training Center and get the level of training you feel you need to properly use the product. When you buy a car, the manual doesn't tell you what to do if you have a squeaky breaks or why the car pulls to the left. You have to look elsewhere to get that depth of information you feel you need. You think this is unique to Autodesk? Think again. This is a business model that is prevalent all over. Now, Autodesk may be in the process of developing something more inline with what was suggested here but to what level or depth should they go? That is and will be, a third party process in ALL areas of business. That is why there are Authorized Training Centers, etc. To start with the base info and take it to the nth level to satisfy the eager learner.
If you really want a help file-training manual, send Autodesk a spec on what should be in the manual and how you want it layed out. Book, webbased, help file, whatever. Maybe they will do something about it, but it doesn't do you any good to whine about it in discussion groups. Does this sound too harsh? Get over it. Life's too short, be part of the solution because if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
Message 17 of 48
amt_controls
in reply to: pmccutcheon

You just don’t understand do you? When I fist purchased Via it came with a manual. It had all of the steps to do certain things. The manual was layed out nicely. Then AutoDesk bought the software from VIA and tada! There is no manual.

Second, I know more about this product then the trainer that I took the class from. That class was $1000. It was a total waste of money. Why should I call my re-seller? Re-sellers do not have the skills to teach people AutoCAD Electrical. What they know is just what’s in the getting started manual. They support multiple software programs and do not know ACADE.
Message 18 of 48
cawaugh
in reply to: pmccutcheon

Obviously you think so. But then again, I created a comprehensive training manual that referenced the BASICS of ToolBox WD, CIM logic, VIA WD and now AutoCAD Electrical while going into the depths of product functionality that day to day users and vendors at my company require to do their job.
Even when the MFG's manual was available, it was only the basic concepts that were presented. A superuser would still need to dig deeper into the help files, DG's and network with other users to get what they needed to push the envelope. Seeing as any manual I found did not take it to the depth we required, I created one. Now, all pleasantries aside, has anyone bothered to check with Autodesk to see if they have one in the works? Probably not. Are there many people who understand Acade enough to teach? Not many. There are several that I know of, one being myself. Whenever there has been a concern or questions, the people responsible for Electrical have done very well in their response to my questions. The more users who get into Electrical, the more weight they will carry when changes, etc. are needed for the product and its support. In the grand scheme of AutoCAD products, Electrical is just a babe learning how to walk. But when it does, look out. It will get a lot of attention and more resources to satify even the most eager superuser.
Message 19 of 48
MartinLee
in reply to: pmccutcheon

The basics of AcadE are not that complicated. I produced a complete drawing set after two months of purchasing then Toolbox WD, and most of that time was spent modifying my existing AutoCAD symbols (about 2500 of them) for use with AcadE. And Toolbox WD did come with a manual. But there wasn't any training class available, and the technical support was mainly for mechanical, with little knowlege of Tollbox WD. And we didn't have a nice discussion group, either. So I learned by doing. I think that the "Newbies" to AcadE need to jdo less whining, use the available help files (which cover the basics), and just do their work. We all have made the early mistakes, fixed them, and went on. We all have learned by doing (OJT is the best education there is). However, last May, we conducted our own 4 day in-house training class on ACE2005 (we were too chicken to use 2006!). But this was more for how my company uses AcadE then it was for the basic stuff.

The help files with AcadE are very good with the "how to" basic stuff. AcadE get more complicated when you go to customize it, especally now with the PLC parametric build, terminal editor, report generator, and CUI for the menus. Back in the "good ol' days" of AutoCAD a customization manaul was included with the software. It would be nice if we could have that with AcadE, espeically for the things listed above. We paid $$$$ to have someone come spend a day with us explaining the "how to" of the parametrci build and report generater (we gave up on the terminal editor), so a manual for this would be very nice.

Martin Lee
ACE User since 01/99
Message 20 of 48

Hi Martin,

Thank you for your feedback regarding the Help system. In AutoCAD Electrical 2006 we introduced an area to the Help called 'Advanced Productivity' to address more complicated workflows and tools that users have difficulty with. The areas your pointed out are possible areas to address with the Advanced Productivity section of the Help. If you have other areas you'd like to see further documented, please let me know and I'll add them to the documentation wishlist.

Thanks,
Heather Schwartz
Autodesk/AutoCAD Electrical DSS

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