One Lines? Help~!

[spikes2020]

I am trying to draw one lines in CAD and able to print out a list of CBs, cable with cable sizes and so on. It seems that AutoCAD electrical is not made for anything but PLC and wiring small circuits and logic.

I am trying to do a power drop from a utility and show the entire site's power grid's on a one line. Am i using the wrong software, or is it just not setup correct. I found this [Link|http://mfgcommunity.autodesk.com/blogs/blog/view/7/1-line_Diagrams_and_linked_MCC/] that shows cad doing something like what i am after but still it seems overly difficult when doing a one line that changes often and has many breakers, switches and cables of all different sizes.

Any advice on setting up CAD or other software would be awesome!

[kenaslan]

I feel your pain. I also cannot draw onelines with the OTB stuff. Its funny that there is motor starter contacts but no motor starter coil in the library. And not a single panel, GFR, Multilin, or any of the standard one line components. I really think it is the 2010 package. I can see why almost all of the big jobs don't use autocad. Not a single component for substations or 1500hp or larger motors. It seems that ACE is really designed for a small panel shop, but as far as the large jobs go, Autodesk just is not interested in that market.

I engineer large mining and industrial projects, and autocad is just lacking in its ability.

It is also a sad point to note that autodesk almost NEVER responds to these forums.

Ready to go to Intergraph
Ken

[spikes2020]

First, thank you for the reply!

I have the 2010 package and it is still missing many one line components, such as ATS, vacuum breakers and a few others. It still seems really limited on the selection.

I work in the underground construction, most of the electrical equipment is temporary and thus changes a lot in design phase. I was wondering what program do you use for your one lines. If there was a program that i can draw out my one-line, easily label cable sizes and types, QO panels and then pull a list of all the materials so i can send it to vendors for bids. I know it seems like asking for a lot but i cant be the only EE looking for something like this.

You said something about Intergraph, It seems they have all kinds of different software packages from ETap to 3D software. Is the software package you are talking about called "SmartPlant Electrical"?

cheers
Jon W

[kenaslan]

That would be the one. I took the class on it. I was not impressed on its drawing ability. What it is, is a database that you enter your info into. Then IT draws the one-line for you. Most of the drawing have to be exported to Autocad to "clean up". We use Smart plant for P&ID and loop diagrams. For some reason autodesk does not understand that the P&ID comes first, THEN you do you loops, and finally your schematics. The P&ID function of ACE is for most part nonfunctional, and Autocad P&ID does not talk to ACE. Autcad is the best, hands down, when it comes to drafting/drawing. You might want to look at MEP, it has a half way ok one-line. I think the main problem are the designers at autocad. I doubt they ever have worked in the industry. They are code writers, and have no idea what a one-line should look like. Why else would they "forget" to have basics panels, MCC, ATS and the list goes on and on and on. ACE is just not designed for the BIG STUF, it freaks out at 5000 hp motors, and has no cable tray ability what so ever.

Ken

[dougmcalexander]

I'm not sure why you guys are having difficulties. You can create one-lines with plain "vanilla" AutoCAD. They will just be dumb. Adding a one-line drawing to an AutoCAD Electrical project allows you to edit the one-line symbols, Lookup new part numbers, change ratings, descriptions, etc., and have this update the related 3-line symbols, panel layout, and P&ID symbols accordingly. I have a sample project I use in my classes that has 3-line, one-line, panel layout, and P&ID drawings. I can change a description line or part number on the P&ID and AcadE will update the 3-line, panel layout, and one-line with the changes. I was doing this as far back as version 2007 of AutoCAD Electrical, which had no official one-line capability. I just inserted the single-pole versions of the symbols from the JIC125 library and gave them the same tags as their 3-phase schematic counterpart. I only had to ignore the popup that warns of tag duplication. By turning off Real-time Error Checking I would not even see the warning popups.

AcadE 2010 now adds some common one-line symbols and the ability for the program to allow you to select from a schematic list to copy the tag of the 3-phase counterpart from a project list. Plus 2010 doesn't see the one-line tags as a tag duplication error.

Autodesk also gave us a nice starting point of common one-line symbols. For application specific one-line symbols, just use Symbol Builder or copy a similar symbol into the 1- folder of your active library folder. For example, if you want a motor starter coil for your one-line diagram, copy HMS1 and VMS1 from the JIC125 library folder to the 1- folder inside the JIC125 folder, which is where the one-line symbol files reside. Rename the files to HMS1_1- and VMS1_1- and add an attribute named WDTYPE with a default value of 1-. That's all there is to it. You can use Icon Menu Wizard to add the new symbol to the One-Line category of the Icon menu. In fact for a motor starter just use s1(SHmt1) for the icon Image. s1(SHmt1) is the same one used in the Motor Control category for a motor starter coil.

Autodesk has given AcadE 2010 the intelligence to properly interpret one-line symbols so they can link to all other iterations of the component, 3-line, panel footprint, and P&ID. Plus you still have the superior drafting engine that is AutoCAD.