Database Update

[rkambrose]

I am trying to figure out a problem I am having.  It seems that when I make changes to components on drawings the data is not updated in all locations.  Here is a typical example

I change a starter from one manufacturer to another

surfing to all instances shows the updated manufacturer

Run a BOM and it uses the original manufacturer.

Run database update command and now the BOM will generate with the new data.

Looking at the database it seems to continually grow unitl I close the application.

I am using ACE2013 in Win7 x64.  Any comments or thoughts.  Thinking of loading ACE2012 back and trying it to see if it is something project related that I didn't notice before.

[mathalekar]

Hello,

Are you seeing any PDS error on the screen during when you edit and update the component ?

Can you send me sample project on which you are facing this issue ? Please use one of default project from ACADE and try to see if you can reproduce this issue.

Another small check to be done before jumping on to issue is to delete the project database from

"C:\Users\{ Use Name}\AppData\Roaming\Autodesk\AutoCAD Electrical 2013\R19.0\enu\Support\User"

The project database name is same as project name.mdb

my email id is mayuresh.athalekar@autodesk.com

[rkambrose]

I have sent one of the affected projects.  Hope you can see something.

[CAD-ICE]

Hi there,

not sure if I understand your problem correctly but I assume what you are trying to do is to redefine the catalog entry for a certain type of component in your project, right?

If that´s the case, you should use the function called "Component Update From Catalog" which is placed under the project tab (see attached picture.

Hope this helps,

Regards, Gary

[dougmcalexander]

AutoCAD Electrical generates reports using the data in the project scratch database.  I too have noticed that the reports may contain incorrect data unless you run a Full Rebuild of the database.  It seems that the software doesn't reliably keep the drawings and the database in synchronization.  You can force a database refresh/rebuild, however, Autodesk saw fit to remove the icon for this command from the Project tab of the ribbon menu.  You can add it back using the CUI editor, as I did.  To activate the command from the command line type AEREBUILDDB and press your enter key.

[rkambrose]

Doug

That is what I have been doing but it seems that I have to do it more frequently now than before.  I am never sure when I need to rebuild and when it is not necessary.  Quite often when I run AEREBUILDDB the prompt identifies the entire drawing set as needing a refresh.

Not sure how things are handled in the scratch database but it appears to grow as the drawing session progresses.  A typical db size might be 4M when the session starts and I have seen it grow to 40MB.  This returns to the starting size when a project is closed or the db is rebuilt.  Watching the timestamp on the file seems to indicate that when I was changing component information the db was not being updated.

When I did my training the instructior kept telling us to save to refresh the database.  I haven't seen that it makes a difference.

[CAD-ICE]

Hi there,

I have experienced sometimes that it´s not enough to do a full rebuild when experiencing abnormalities in the database. In this case I need to delete the scratch database file on my pc. Seems like the full rebuild is not as effective as the renewal of the "projectname.fdb" file.

Regards, Gary

[dougmcalexander]

There are times when something becomes corrupt enough that deleting is best.  In fact, I keep a shortcut to User on my desktop so I can go in and clean out the projectname.mdb files regularly.  The most important time to rebuild or delete is prior to executing reports.

[rkambrose]

I am really curious what is going on now.  I thought I would do some tests with a new project that I made from scratch.

I created a new drawing, put 2 ladders on it and inserted a single rung with one relay coil.  Based on location it was 02CR.

I inserted another rung and put a contact from 02CR to a solenoid.

I added a second drawing, put a ladder on it and added a rung with a contact from 02CR to a relay 0202CR.  All cross references look good and I can surf between items.

I then move the rung on the first drawing with 02CR down one rung and am prompted to retag.  I do and it becomes 03CR.  The cross reference to the relay is updated on the first drawing where the contact goes to the solenoid and the second drawing as well.  Looking at the command prompt though I see one item updated on the current page then a message that 02CR is not found.  On the second drawing the relay contact is updated with the correct name and cross-reference.  BUT if I try to surf only the first drawing instances exist unless I do a rebuild.

Any suggestions on where to go??  I am thinking of re-installing the software just to make sure something isn't wrong.  With the database getting out of synch this easily it is no wonder I am rebuilding all the time.

[rkambrose]

Just to clarify if I am moving the relay 02CR using the AEMOVECIRCUIT command.  I get the same results if I use move component.

[rkambrose]

Some more information regarding this problem.  I hadn't tied considered the fact that I had recently changed computers (now Win 7) and upgraded to ACE 2013 at the same time.

What I tried on the weekend was to move the project from the NAS device I use as a server in the office and have them on the local drive.  When I did this all the problems regarding datatbase updates went away.  Not sure what causes this but it gives me a new path to follow.

Anyone else had similar issues with networked storage?  I am curioius as to why it only seemed to affect the database as the drawings were all updated correctly.

[peterben1959]

I know this was a while ago now but we have had similar problems. We started using AcadE 2012 a couple years ago and after around six months or so, we started experiencing update issues which initially, were only occasionally, but gradually got more frequent. At the time we were due an upgrade, so were advised to upgrade to the latest version, at the time (Oct 14), AcadE 2015.

Again, after around 6 months we started experiencing the exact same issues, eg. we would update a wire number on a scheme and the wiring diagram 'wire annotation' refresh wouldn't update that same wire number. The 'Refresh Database'  command usually worked, but it gradually got worse and after a while even that didn't work every time. At the time, we contacted Cadline, who in turn contacted Autodesk, but we never saw a solution until one of our IT guys suggested a Windows 'Profile' rebuild. That was in June this year and it actually did cure the problem, but we are now wondering if the same thing is going to happen again in the near future.

Pete B.

[dougmcalexander]

The database is growing and shrinking because of how it tracks design changes. This is normal.

Try changing to Single Document Interface mode (SDI=1) and see if data tracking improves. This is how the software worked when it was invented, in the 1990s. I never saw a crash of the database, or any other database issues, in the early versions. Autodesk changed it in release 2006, allowing more than one drawing to be open simultaneously. Imagine how hard the data manager must work when you have multiple drawings open and you are making changes that haven't yet been saved.

The default setting with a new installation is SDI=0. Close all but one drawing and type SDI at the command prompt. Press enter on your keyboard. Type 1 and press enter. The software will now only allow one drawing per user to be open at a time. This is very popular among those who are working on the same project together. I meet CAD administrators who set the software up this way with each install.

Note: There are special commands that require Multiple Document Interface, or SDI set to 0. The software will alert you if it needs Multiple Document Interface turned on.

I should point out that the reason the database can get out of sync is because of one major advantage AutoCAD Electrical has. The drawing data is stored in the drawings. Database-driven programs store drawing data in the project database. If the database becomes corrupt, you can lose some or all data related to a project, or even multiple projects. You then have to create the drawings all over again, or replace what is missing.

AutoCAD Electrical is driven from the drawing side. That is why the project database is called a project scratch database. You could delete the project scratch database and the software will create a new one by re-reading the drawing data. This robust approach helps protect your project from database anomalies. That's why you read about people deleting the project scratch database from time to time and letting the software create a fresh one by re-reading the drawings. You see, the database simply records your edits and uses this information to expedite internal operations. Reports get their data from the project scratch database rather than waiting on the software to open and read every drawing in real time. This is why you see some of us recommending that you rebuild the database prior to generating reports or exporting to a spreadsheet for editing. Hint: Service Pack 1 of release 2016 automatically updates the database prior to exporting to a spreadsheet.

[controlsgirl]

Hey @dougmcalexander, I am using 2012 and for some reason ACE stalls everytime I right-click on a component and click surfer. I remember this working at some point but I did install the service pack. Do you remember anything like this ever happening to anyone? I deleted the scratch database and tried that. Did not work. I created a new project using the original project and then added the drawings. Did not work. Then I even tried surfing this way in the demo project that installs with ACE and it still did not work. I tried to repair the software and that did not work. I really do not want to uninstall and install again because I always forget everything that I've customized or changed. It is driving me bonkers. 

[rhesusminus]

Could it be that the project is the problem, and not the installlation?
Do surfer work in the demo projects?

[controlsgirl]

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@rhesusminus wrote:
Could it be that the project is the problem, and not the installlation?
Do surfer work in the demo projects?

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It does not work with the demo project. I listed the things I tried. Maybe you could give them a look over and let me know if there is anything else I could try outside of installing the software again? I would appreciate it. 

[rhesusminus · Accepted solution]

Oops. Sorry I didn't read properly. If you press ESC, does everything continue then? Could it be that the dialog is off screen? Then you can try the following key combination: Alt+SPACE, M
Then, use the left/right arrow keys to move the dialog back into your screen.

[dougmcalexander]

Are you by chance operating in SDI mode? Surfing works for me with SDI=1 or SDI=0 but I just wonder if there is an issue with your installation that might be related to SDI mode.

Surfing is one utility I have never had an issue with, so this strikes me as a problem related to the installation of the software. Was antivirus disabled when you installed the software or when you tried the repair?

[controlsgirl]

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@rhesusminus wrote:
Oops. Sorry I didn't read properly. If you press ESC, does everything continue then? Could it be that the dialog is off screen? Then you can try the following key combination: Alt+SPACE, M
Then, use the left/right arrow keys to move the dialog back into your screen.

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HAHA!! You are absolutely amazing! That was it.

p.s. you can also move windows by pressing the windows key + arrow key.

Thanks so much. That has been driving me absolutely BONKERS for months now! phew!!!!!!!! I am so relieved.