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Complete Symbol Library? VFD's etc.

31 REPLIES 31
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Message 1 of 32
Cad01
12326 Views, 31 Replies

Complete Symbol Library? VFD's etc.

I am trying to set up ACE for my company but I cannot seem to find any symbols for the following Allen-Bradley parts: Minotaur safety relays, powerflex VFD's, 140M's.
Am I missing something? Do I need to create all of these myself or do they exist somewhere?
Thank you!
31 REPLIES 31
Message 2 of 32
chubby-1
in reply to: Cad01

As a general rule. Most people make their own symbols. I generally use a ACE standard symbol, explode it, add or remove attributes, modify geometry, and then run it back through the "black box builder".

Some points to watch as you do this.
1) component naming format
2) attributes

Hope this helps.
Marty
Message 3 of 32
cieronimo
in reply to: Cad01

When I have a need for a particular symbol, beyond what is included in AE; I locate one online in a cut sheet of the product I am working with from the vendor in the form of a PDF. I then create a copy of the AE drawing that I am working with to use as a scratch pad. While in that copy I do a PDFIMPORT of the PDF page with the CAD drawing embedded in the PDF. I then copy it out to my active drawing and scale it accordingly.
Message 4 of 32
TRLitsey
in reply to: Cad01

Hi there,

 

The symbols that come with ACE should cover a lot of what you need.  Did you install all of the libraries?  Default install bring in a few but there are 5 or 6 libraries can be selected during or after initial install.  And remember that what you see in the icon menu is only a representation of what is available.  That is to say that from selecting a terminal block from the icon menu, you may have 1000 or more part numbers you can associate to that symbol.   Open up your folders and see what you really have installed.  And these are just the graphics, there 1000s of parts and many manufacturers in the default catalog.  By the way, initial install only brings in 3 manufactures.  If you go into the select manufacturer install, you will see a ton of them available.

 

Screenshot - 11_1_2016 , 2_26_17 PM.png

 

 

And just about everyone does end up making their own symbols sooner or later.  There is a good little walk through for creating smart blocks in the tut that comes with every version of ACE.  It will walk you through what was previously referred to in a post above, explode a standard block change the geometry to your liking, rename and away you go.  The trick is to select the same type of block to begin with, ie use a terminal block if you want a custom terminal block, use a relay coil if that is what you are trying to create.  Each type of symbol can carry a different set of attributes so it is important to start with the right type to end up with the right type.  It might be worth reading up on the ACE naming convention also the first several character and character order is very important.

 

Since you are talking AB here, this is a link to one of the AB stock, dumb block, free download sights.  You can download many plan jane 2D dwg and add smart attributes with the ACE symbol builder.  Just be sure to enter the full AB part number.  I don't think they are using wild cards yet.

 

Screenshot - 11_1_2016 , 2_17_45 PM.png

 

 

http://www.rockwellautomation.com/global/support/drawings.page

 

here is one other link to a source for dumb block already drawn up.  Just be sure to check the scale when you download.

 

Please mark as a solution if this works for you, kudos are always welcome.

 

 

http://www.cadforum.cz/catalog_en/?cat=4

 

 

 

 

Please mark as a solution if this works for you, kudos are always welcome
Message 5 of 32
rhesusminus
in reply to: TRLitsey

Really nice answer TRLitsey.
However, I don't understand why this 10+ year old thread, is replied to. Both OP and first answer are accounts that are archived...

Trond Hasse Lie
AutoCAD Electrical and EPLAN expert
Ctrl Alt El
Please select "Accept Solution" if this post answers your question. 'Likes' won't hurt either. 😉
Message 6 of 32
TRLitsey
in reply to: rhesusminus

Ha, that is funny. Came in from a break and saw cieronimo post, just ran with it I guess. Oh Well, good thing my day is about done.

Take care Trond,
Hope you have a great rest of the week

Best Regards,

Tim Litsey
Electrical Controls Designer
B & H Labeling Sysems
Ceres, CA
Please mark as a solution if this works for you, kudos are always welcome
Message 7 of 32
cieronimo
in reply to: rhesusminus

I can't say... I was looking for something and came across it. I just recently learned how to do that so I shared it. We all learn something every day. I never noticed the date on the post and only considered its content.
Message 8 of 32
dougmcalexander
in reply to: cieronimo

TRLitsey provided you with a very concise answer.  I would only add that the software is delivered with libraries of symbols from such standards as IEC, JIC, and NFPA, the NFPA being the updated version of the JIC, as a convenience.  These symbol libraries include common symbols, mostly devices with 2 wire connections, though some can be joined by a dashed link line to represent 2-pole and 3-pole devices like relay and switch contacts, fuses, and circuit breakers.  PLC modules from major PLC manufacturers are also included.  They are actually included as a symbol. They are built parametrically from as many as 40 symbol blocks for each PLC style.  PLC modules have a common look so the developers were able to include these to save us time.  

 

But when it comes to VFDs and other application-specific devices the number of wire connections creates a complication for the developers.  They cannot anticipate where to place the wire connections in such a way that would satisfy everyone. Some may want power on the top and output on the bottom, while others may prefer power on the left and output on the right.  And then there are the communications and control wire connections.  It just gets too complicated to predict.  For these situations Autodesk has included the Symbol Builder, a type of wizard assistant to help us create our own library of custom symbols.  In fact, I teach my customers to store these custom symbols in a separate folder named Custom Symbols.  You can set this folder as the default folder to open when you click the Browse button at the bottom middle of the Icon menu.  This path is set in the wd.env (environment file).

 

Hint:  There are actually two symbol builders.  The one you see on the ribbon menu was introduced in release 2009 and is great for those who are new to the software and the process of creating a custom symbol.  It is also convenient for editing a symbol that has already been inserted into a drawing.  I use it to modify parametric PLC symbols if I decide that I need to change the split points on a PLC I have already inserted and split it.  The original symbol builder is still available by typing WD_SYM_BUILD at the command prompt and pressing enter.  This version of symbol builder allows you to build a symbol on the drawing, in the location where it will be used.  I just draw the shape of the symbol over the wires.  When the symbol is saved the software will offer to insert the saved symbol into the drawing where you created it.  I find it to be my favorite symbol builder, especially for creating footprints.  It automatically offers additional MFG and CAT attributes in case I want to pre-load subassembly parts into my footprint, such as pre-loading a motor starter footprint with lugs, auxiliary contact, etc.  When the footprint is inserted from the schematic list, the lugs and auxiliary contact are automatically loaded so they will appear in the BOM with no additional effort on my part.

 

TRLitsey has provided all of the other information you will need.



Doug McAlexander


Design Engineer/Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical training and implementation support

Phone and Web-based Support Plans Available

Phone: (770) 841-8009

www.linkedin.com/in/doug-mcalexander-1a77623




Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Likes are also much appreciated.
Message 9 of 32
ccad2509
in reply to: dougmcalexander

Nice to see Dougs back peddling his view of why ACADE works the way it does

And again he’s got it wrong

3 solutions used by component supplies that have engaged with Eplan and supply components symbols to the Eplan data portal

  • Create a VSD in IEC for the world (vertical) and create a symbol going horizontal (for USA )
  • Using Eplan’s symbol variant function which can only be described as how dynamic blocks should work you can create a variant 1 symbol which covers the 3 phase power variant 2 symbol which has dc control signals on it variant 3 which has comms modules you can have 16 completely different symbols linked to one symbol file
    When you insert the symbol you just press tab and the symbol cycles through all the defined symbol variant’s
  • By using insert device by part number in Eplan In the parts definition you can have entries to assemble a symbol by using standard symbols you can define a black box then add terminals ( with Eplan if you put a symbol into a black box it automatically assumes that symbol is part of the black box symbol)with all the functions and drop each symbol in one at a time with the added functionality of 8 angle variant’s by using the tab key
     

Option 1 can be done but that means somebody at Autodesk needs to create the blocks

Option2 and 3 don’t exist in ACADE and is some of those pesky functions that Autodesk can’t do

 

So you see it can be done but not if you’re using ACADE

 

Oops I forgot you can just create a symbol and then use the rotate command which will rotate a symbol and it will not throw up any sort of error

Message 10 of 32
ccad2509
in reply to: ccad2509

Oops I also forgot to mention Eplan and Wscad have larger Parts libraries available online

And this is Rockwell’s solution to your problem in the Eplan portal

02.PNG

 

Message 11 of 32
ccad2509
in reply to: ccad2509

03.PNG

Message 12 of 32
rcreel
in reply to: ccad2509

go to the AB\Rockwell site and search for "accelerators" and sample drawings. Rockwell is pushing standardized code and offers quick start guide for various scenarios-----with schematics and panel layouts. I have been able top obtain about 80% of the VFDs, safety devices and HMIs I need---already drawn with attributes.

 

FYI---for those companies who use AB\Rockwell; announced last week that Studio5000 will be updated in Q2 2017 to allow the ability to design PLC project in Rockwell software; and export to ACADe---like the PLC I\O utility does now. Complete 2 way work flow. They already have this functionality for EPlan. 2018 gets the ability to do the same for 2D panel layout with ACADe.

Message 13 of 32
rhesusminus
in reply to: rcreel

Nice info @rcreel!

 

Tried to have a look at the CCAT, but I wasn't able to log in (Forgot password), and the password reset isn't working as expected.

Would it be possible for you to e-mail me an example of the output in DWG-format? In both IEC and NFPA format, if possible...

 

thl@ctrlaltel.com


Trond Hasse Lie
AutoCAD Electrical and EPLAN expert
Ctrl Alt El
Please select "Accept Solution" if this post answers your question. 'Likes' won't hurt either. 😉
Message 14 of 32
ccad2509
in reply to: rhesusminus

Went onto the Eplan data portal this morning

another 10,000 components have been added and 13 new manufactures

Does anyone here still think cobbling together partial data as part of the software install is still the solution

 

Come on Autodesk the live parts data server is the solution why fight progress?

 

 

data portal.PNG

Message 15 of 32
rrowe24N24
in reply to: ccad2509

done the login and cant get anywhere

everything I click on prompts me back to login

then when I login again it takes me back to the beginning.

 

don't get it

 

all im looking for is plc I/o components such as 1746-NI8

 

 

Message 16 of 32
TRLitsey
in reply to: rrowe24N24

You mean like this?

 

From the schematic tab on the ribbon ...

 

Screenshot - 1_10_2017 , 8_22_42 AM.png

 

 

Screenshot - 1_10_2017 , 8_23_37 AM.png

Please mark as a solution if this works for you, kudos are always welcome
Message 17 of 32
rrowe24N24
in reply to: TRLitsey

yes where can I get all of those and put them in my component PLC I/O list.

 

 

Message 18 of 32
dougmcalexander
in reply to: Cad01

The images TRLITSEY posted show where you insert PLC modules from. They are built parametrically. They don't usually consist of just one block. There are 40 blocks per PLC style and 5 styles to choose from. As you interact with the various dialogs presented to you while inserting the PLC module, the software chooses the appropriate blocks to use. There is a tutorial for this included in the software help, but you might want to consider formal training.

You get so much out of the software so much sooner after formal training. I took my first class for this software in 1997, when it was sold under the name of Toolbox/WD (Wiring Diagram). Now I help others learn and inplement the software. Day 4 of my class includes how to work with PLC modules.


Doug McAlexander


Design Engineer/Consultant/Instructor/Mentor specializing in AutoCAD Electrical training and implementation support

Phone and Web-based Support Plans Available

Phone: (770) 841-8009

www.linkedin.com/in/doug-mcalexander-1a77623




Please Accept as Solution if I helped you. Likes are also much appreciated.
Message 19 of 32
TRLitsey
in reply to: rrowe24N24

You are using the Parametric insert not the Full Unit insert and you don't see a selection?  Can you post a screen shot of what you do see?

 

 

 

Screenshot - 1_10_2017 , 10_53_46 AM.png

Please mark as a solution if this works for you, kudos are always welcome
Message 20 of 32
rrowe24N24
in reply to: TRLitsey

thank you so much

that is what I needed

 

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