Another Pinlist Question - Accessing optional descriptive text

[drathak]

This may or may not be possible, but it sure would be handy.  Can the optional descriptive text in the pinlist be used to pass information back to the component?

For example, here is a partial entry in my pinlist table: 4IN,A12,A13,*IN102

I want that IN102 part to show up in an attribute in the child symbol.  Right now that attribute is DESC2 and I have to fill it in manually.  If I could get that from the chosen pinlist entry, it would be one less thing to do manually as well as one less thing to make a mistake on.

Any ideas?

[Anonymous]

I have been thinking about this as well.  I need to show all the INs and OUTs of the SEL, and it would be nice to not have to type all that in.

[drathak]

All my searching hasn't turned up anything yet.  I did think about this though.

What if you added an extra TERM attribute but no actual pin?  Position that attribute where the INXXX or OUTXXX goes.

Then do the pinlist entry like 4IN,A12,A13,IN102,*IN102

The first IN102 would show ghosted in the next pin slot in the component edit dialog.  I know this from having forgotten the asterisk.  The one with the asterisk would show up in the pin list dialog.

I think.  Time to try it I guess...

[drathak]

Well I was almost right.  The third TERM# does take the extra label and it does update the attribute.  Only thing is it isn't ghosted.  But I can live with that.  I'm attaching the output contact i just tried it with.

If anyone can think of any reasons not to do it this way, please speak up!

[Anonymous]

What if you needed 2 lines?  Thinking if you used a SEL-551, that contact might be 86BF over 191C (bkr number) or any other 2 line combination.  Also, we put something like 21P/67NP  over OUT1 showing the relay function, and ouput number

[drathak]

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@Anonymous wrote:

What if you needed 2 lines?  Thinking if you used a SEL-551, that contact might be 86BF over 191C (bkr number) or any other 2 line combination.  Also, we put something like 21P/67NP  over OUT1 showing the relay function, and ouput number

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For that stuff, since it varies by application rather than by device, I'm adding a couple of user attributes to my symbols. F-NUM, F_DESC1 & F_DESC2.   To access them I have to use the "Show/Edit Miscellaneous" button in the "Insert/Edit Child Component" dialog box.  Pins B15 & B16 will always be OUT206, for example.  But the function it is being used for changes.  So I don't think the pinlist is a good place for that sort of info.

We are using our device numbers for the TAG1 attribute, usually the relay type as DESC1.

[Anonymous]

I haven't gotten into it far enough yet to know where to put all that info.

[drathak]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I haven't gotten into it far enough yet to know where to put all that info.

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Well, I'd put most of the info related to a device in the parent symbol normally.  But some things it makes more sense to put it in the child.  For example, with our SEL inputs, I wanted the function that input supports as part of the symbol attributes.  For that I added the F-NUM (Function number) and F-DESC1 & F-DESC2 attribute definitions in the symbol builder.  These won't show up in the attribute list like the built in attributes do (TAG2, FAMILY, etc.) but you can edit them just like always.  You can see that in the attached image.

Each instance of this input symbol can (and usually does) have a diffent function.  (79, 50, 51, 86, BF, etc.)  I can edit these added attributes by using the "Show/Edit Miscellaneous" button in the "Insert/Edit Component" dialog box.

It is really up to how you want to use it.  And since we hope to utilize Vault Professional to look at and access our drawing data in new ways, we need to have useful data out there.  So think about what information you'd like to be able to query on and go from there.

[Icemanau]

If all you are doing is adding a I/O identifier, the pinlist is exactly the place to put it. The identifier won't change even if the function of the I/O does.

For example, in one job output 101 could be a trip contact, but on another job the same contact could be a close contact. The identifier has not changed, just what the contact function is has changed. This function is best shown in the description and if the identifier is added as part of the terminals, it free's up the full three lines of the description.

To get it shadowed or in a different colour, is easy, just set it to the appropriate layer with all the other attributes in the block, on layer 0. You must also select the tick box for 'Apply to entities on layer "0" only' which is located in the Define Layers dialog box from the Drawing Properties->Drawing Format.

Regards Brad

[drathak]

Thanks Brad.  I just wasn't sure it putting that sort of thing in the pinlist would cause problems later on. Say with a drawing or project audit.  Since there is no XTERM# attribute I'm guessing that may not be an issue, but I like to ask.

I've redone my blocks and pinlists that I have so far to use the extra terminal attribute to show the selected I/O identifier.  I'm liking it....

[Icemanau]

The only problem I've come across is with type 3 contacts (Changeover). Some relays use these and a term03 attribute picks up the third terminal instead of the ID of the contact. This limits the use of the modified blocks and the pinlist with the ID added, to just the No or NC contacts.

Regards Brad

[drathak]

Good point, Brad.  I've done some type 3 (which is Form-C) and added the extra terminal with no issues.  I had initialy tried type 0 - Convertible Contact for the outputs since they can be either NO or NC based on programming, but then I read the help a little closer and saw that teh convertible contacts it was referring to should have four terminals and "flip over".  So I went with a type 4 for the outputs too.

That extra TERM## attribute doesn't have to be 03.  For some of our relays the potential coils are connected internally so we are connecting four wires. (3Phase+N)  I have a TERM05 that is taking the descriptive text.  And as a general rule I am only doing this for the more complex devices.  An EM relay with a coil and a few contacts I will probably do pretty standard pinlists if any at all.